De cat pipe, power gains ?
Discussion
As tittle suggests, I'm just wondering what a nice Clive Y or similar would offer me in power gains,
If my engine had say a reputed 300 Bhp and 350 ft lbs torque using the Mbe Ecu and CATTED Y piece
What extra would a fully de CATTED system offer me on both the power and more importantly torque curve,
I'm using lambda's so that will have to be addressed I know but re mapped what should I expect. Ball park will do,, I'd like to see 325 Bhp for instance but not sure if that's feasible ?
Cheers Alun
4.6 engine !
If my engine had say a reputed 300 Bhp and 350 ft lbs torque using the Mbe Ecu and CATTED Y piece
What extra would a fully de CATTED system offer me on both the power and more importantly torque curve,
I'm using lambda's so that will have to be addressed I know but re mapped what should I expect. Ball park will do,, I'd like to see 325 Bhp for instance but not sure if that's feasible ?
Cheers Alun
4.6 engine !
ClassiChimi said:
As tittle suggests, I'm just wondering what a nice Clive Y or similar would offer me in power gains,
If my engine had say a reputed 300 Bhp and 350 ft lbs torque using the Mbe Ecu and CATTED Y piece
What extra would a fully de CATTED system offer me on both the power and more importantly torque curve,
I'm using lambda's so that will have to be addressed I know but re mapped what should I expect. Ball park will do,, I'd like to see 325 Bhp for instance but not sure if that's feasible ?
Cheers Alun
You could expect 10-20 horses, some have had more gains, esp on 5l enginesIf my engine had say a reputed 300 Bhp and 350 ft lbs torque using the Mbe Ecu and CATTED Y piece
What extra would a fully de CATTED system offer me on both the power and more importantly torque curve,
I'm using lambda's so that will have to be addressed I know but re mapped what should I expect. Ball park will do,, I'd like to see 325 Bhp for instance but not sure if that's feasible ?
Cheers Alun
After three years of watching these power threads, I am convinced that the words "stage 4heads" are the only really significant thing you need to read on that last post.
When Phazed bought his 5.5, it had stage 3 heads and underwhelmed him somewhat. He still at that point had the 4.6 with stage 4 heads. After a discussion on here he was persuaded to go into his multi garage establishment at Phazed Towers, and swap the heads between cars. After doing that, the 5.5 on stage 4 heads was considerably more powerful, around 380-390 BHP IIRC.
I conclude that we can upgrade our plenums, injectors, hoses, AFMs etc all we like, but unless we fit bigger valved heads, our BHP output will always be less than we expected or hoped for. My own V8 D 5 litre, with all the extras, but stage 3 heads, is a case in point - a mere 315 BHP.
When Phazed bought his 5.5, it had stage 3 heads and underwhelmed him somewhat. He still at that point had the 4.6 with stage 4 heads. After a discussion on here he was persuaded to go into his multi garage establishment at Phazed Towers, and swap the heads between cars. After doing that, the 5.5 on stage 4 heads was considerably more powerful, around 380-390 BHP IIRC.
I conclude that we can upgrade our plenums, injectors, hoses, AFMs etc all we like, but unless we fit bigger valved heads, our BHP output will always be less than we expected or hoped for. My own V8 D 5 litre, with all the extras, but stage 3 heads, is a case in point - a mere 315 BHP.
QBee said:
After three years of watching these power threads, I am convinced that the words "stage 4heads" are the only really significant thing you need to read on that last post.
When Phazed bought his 5.5, it had stage 3 heads and underwhelmed him somewhat. He still at that point had the 4.6 with stage 4 heads. After a discussion on here he was persuaded to go into his multi garage establishment at Phazed Towers, and swap the heads between cars. After doing that, the 5.5 on stage 4 heads was considerably more powerful, around 380-390 BHP IIRC.
I conclude that we can upgrade our plenums, injectors, hoses, AFMs etc all we like, but unless we fit bigger valved heads, our BHP output will always be less than we expected or hoped for. My own V8 D 5 litre, with all the extras, but stage 3 heads, is a case in point - a mere 315 BHP.
When Phazed bought his 5.5, it had stage 3 heads and underwhelmed him somewhat. He still at that point had the 4.6 with stage 4 heads. After a discussion on here he was persuaded to go into his multi garage establishment at Phazed Towers, and swap the heads between cars. After doing that, the 5.5 on stage 4 heads was considerably more powerful, around 380-390 BHP IIRC.
I conclude that we can upgrade our plenums, injectors, hoses, AFMs etc all we like, but unless we fit bigger valved heads, our BHP output will always be less than we expected or hoped for. My own V8 D 5 litre, with all the extras, but stage 3 heads, is a case in point - a mere 315 BHP.
- chuckle* ... Is that their Stage IV "Mk1" or Stage IV "Mk2" spec though.
Bassfiend229hp said:
QBee said:
After three years of watching these power threads, I am convinced that the words "stage 4heads" are the only really significant thing you need to read on that last post.
When Phazed bought his 5.5, it had stage 3 heads and underwhelmed him somewhat. He still at that point had the 4.6 with stage 4 heads. After a discussion on here he was persuaded to go into his multi garage establishment at Phazed Towers, and swap the heads between cars. After doing that, the 5.5 on stage 4 heads was considerably more powerful, around 380-390 BHP IIRC.
I conclude that we can upgrade our plenums, injectors, hoses, AFMs etc all we like, but unless we fit bigger valved heads, our BHP output will always be less than we expected or hoped for. My own V8 D 5 litre, with all the extras, but stage 3 heads, is a case in point - a mere 315 BHP.
When Phazed bought his 5.5, it had stage 3 heads and underwhelmed him somewhat. He still at that point had the 4.6 with stage 4 heads. After a discussion on here he was persuaded to go into his multi garage establishment at Phazed Towers, and swap the heads between cars. After doing that, the 5.5 on stage 4 heads was considerably more powerful, around 380-390 BHP IIRC.
I conclude that we can upgrade our plenums, injectors, hoses, AFMs etc all we like, but unless we fit bigger valved heads, our BHP output will always be less than we expected or hoped for. My own V8 D 5 litre, with all the extras, but stage 3 heads, is a case in point - a mere 315 BHP.
- chuckle* ... Is that their Stage IV "Mk1" or Stage IV "Mk2" spec though.
I'll leave it alone for now.
It's the valve sizes that restrict the amount of fuel/air mixture getting into the engine, I think, Alun, and that determines the power output.
Your 4.6 valves will be smaller than Peter's stage 4 head valves. Look, I could be wrong, but I don't believe the other components, such as plenum, AFM injectors etc make much difference if the valve sizes are the restricting factors. Jools said as much to me when he checked over my car in November.
So, if I want another 30 bhp I need a pair of stage 4 heads. Which fitted will set me back around 2 grand. That's a long way towards supercharging the thing and getting another 80-100 bhp. Your money, your man maths.
What do other people think? The informed ones, I mean.
Your 4.6 valves will be smaller than Peter's stage 4 head valves. Look, I could be wrong, but I don't believe the other components, such as plenum, AFM injectors etc make much difference if the valve sizes are the restricting factors. Jools said as much to me when he checked over my car in November.
So, if I want another 30 bhp I need a pair of stage 4 heads. Which fitted will set me back around 2 grand. That's a long way towards supercharging the thing and getting another 80-100 bhp. Your money, your man maths.
What do other people think? The informed ones, I mean.
QBee said:
It's the valve sizes that restrict the amount of fuel/air mixture getting into the engine, I think, Alun, and that determines the power output.
Your 4.6 valves will be smaller than Peter's stage 4 head valves. Look, I could be wrong, but I don't believe the other components, such as plenum, AFM injectors etc make much difference if the valve sizes are the restricting factors. Jools said as much to me when he checked over my car in November.
So, if I want another 30 bhp I need a pair of stage 4 heads. Which fitted will set me back around 2 grand. That's a long way towards supercharging the thing and getting another 80-100 bhp. Your money, your man maths.
What do other people think? The informed ones, I mean.
As an uninformed arse (as opposed to a uniformed arse) I'm surprised at the brick wall that seems to be the valve limitations but I don't have any reason why I should be surprised - after all they will flow a finite amount at atmospheric pressure and that's your lot.Your 4.6 valves will be smaller than Peter's stage 4 head valves. Look, I could be wrong, but I don't believe the other components, such as plenum, AFM injectors etc make much difference if the valve sizes are the restricting factors. Jools said as much to me when he checked over my car in November.
So, if I want another 30 bhp I need a pair of stage 4 heads. Which fitted will set me back around 2 grand. That's a long way towards supercharging the thing and getting another 80-100 bhp. Your money, your man maths.
What do other people think? The informed ones, I mean.
I've gone for the biggest vales on standard seats (V8D Stage 4 Mk1) rather than the bigger seats for pretty much teh same reasons as you put there ... the plan is to get the lump well run in and then supercharge it.
Phil
ClassiChimi said:
Some say if your super charging why waste time with the porting or valve sizes as it far out ways the gains anyway, Richards super charged car today seemed way way fast. You can't beat it really this FI lark.
Because I'm not going FI straight away - and it's *POSSIBLE* that I might be happy with what I have for a year or two.It seemed like a sensible use of funds to replace the heads (as they needed completely refurbing) with the biggest sized valves that I could without spending silly money - that way I could make the most of what I have (which I'm really hoping will be north of 300hp and I've been told "should" be 320hp/350ftlbs but who knows) and still have something that doesn't have too much wasted work *IF* I decide to get it supercharged.
Phil
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