Cam shaft costs

[The Surveyor]

I have a suspicion that my cam is on its way out. Tried the exhaust gasket route, and the rattle is still there, and gets slightly louder under load (if that is relavant). When i had the manifold off the nearside bank, No. 1 exhaust outlet did look quite sooty compared to the greyish deposits within the other three. the car is using no oil or water, and the dipstick and filer cap are 'mayo' free.

The questions are:-
- How DIYable is a cam replacement on a 1997 4.0.
- How much are the parts likely to cost in total (cam shaft, followers, gaskets etc)
- How much would it cost to take to an indi / dealership to have a cam replaced.

I only use the car on the roads etc, and therefor is there any merit in looking at a non-standard cam profile?

Any feedback would be useful, as always

Regards

Paul

[hut49]

Could it be pinking rather than a cam problem? What do the plugs look like? What fuel are you using? When was any diagnostic run?

(just trying to save you £££s changing the cam and then finding it is another potentially easier/cheaper fault to rectify)

[The Surveyor]

Thanks Nic

Not whipped out the plugs yet, but will do befor pulling the top of the engine apart. It does use a lot of fuel (about 160 miles to a tank full!), which is slightly worse than my old Griff 500.

As for fuel type, only ever use Optimax.

Don't think it is pinking, as the tapping noise is there at tick-over, and appears to be comming from the 'V' of the engine. Took off the oil filler cap when it was ticking over, and as the tapping didn't sound any louder, thought i could dismiss a nearside rocker problem!!

For general information, the car has done 55,000 miles

>> Edited by The Surveyor on Monday 28th February 15:44

[poorpeet]

What type & grade of oil are you using?
How many miles has it done?

[The Surveyor]

Not sure what the oil is. Only done about 1,000 miles in the car since i bought it, and it had been serviced just befor purchase. Serviced by an experienced TVR indi, so i assusme (hope) that the correct grade of oil was used. Incidentally, i havn't needed to top-up yet as the level is spot on. the oil looks very clean also.

(befor the comments come in, i did get a limited engine warantee when i bought the car, but this has now expired!!!)

Already thought about trying the motorsport grade of Mobil 1, but wanted to wait until after any engine surgery to avoid wasting a sump-full.

thanks for the comments

Paul

[hut49]

Could be the valve gear then. I had a rev-related tappetty-clicking noise and it was diagnosed as worn valve gear (rather than exhaust gas leaking past the manifold gasket). Tapping from worn valve gear is very common due to cheap metal used in these items apparently.

I don't think the noise from my engine was worse under load (that's why I questioned re pinking) but it was very noticeable when ticking over next to a wall or in the garage.

I had the inlet and exhaust rocker arms replaced first on the left bank and then on the right - 200 notes each side. But the difference was remarkable. Now I can hear the exhaust manifolds leaking slightly - doh! - but not serious enough yet to be damaging the manifold face.

Hope this helps

[The Surveyor]

Thanks for that,

Question is how much of the engine gubbins do you need to remove the rocker covers. As indicated, the front nearside exhaust port looked a different colour to the others when i had the manifold off, and therefore either that is where the problem lies, or it's the other three that are knackered....

Sounds like i have a degree of dismantling to do to investigate.

[hut49]

Presume you have the "Bible" and that you will recognize what the problem is when you have it all in pieces! Good luck!

[The Surveyor]

Yes, have the bible, but it is not clear on what can be done with the engine in the car, as opposed to having it on a bench.

It all looks very tight at the back (no rude comments please), especially the clearance under the mesh grill.

[mongoose]

The Surveyor said:

Thanks for that, Question is how much of the engine gubbins do you need to remove the rocker covers. As indicated, the front nearside exhaust port looked a different colour to the others when i had the manifold off, and therefore either that is where the problem lies, or it's the other three that are knackered.... Sounds like i have a degree of dismantling to do to investigate.

you can see the rockers,shafts etc with just the rocker covers off obviously, but youll need to remove the shaft to check properly.to see any obvious cam wear youll not need to remove the cam,only the inlet manifod.this will allow you to see the camlobes.other things you need to remove to check properly are pushrods and lifters.things in the valve train can go pearshaped if the lifter preload isnt set correctly when a cam is installed and then just about anything can break or wear prematurely as it has a knock on effect.if you do need a new cam then id recommend you speak to the chaps at v8 developments-top chaps and very helpfull.they can help with cam choice(personally think its mad not to upgrade if you have to change it).their rates are very reasonable too.

[MAC5]

Hi ,

Had my old 5.0 done at V8 Devolpments and upgrade to a MC1 , Much smoother around town and pulles better lower end cost £700 ish.

Good Luck

Mac

[shpub]

The Surveyor said:

Yes, have the bible, but it is not clear on what can be done with the engine in the car, as opposed to having it on a bench. It all looks very tight at the back (no rude comments please), especially the clearance under the mesh grill.

Cam changes can be done in situ. Tower View were changing one yesterday while I was playing with the 520.
Not that difficult but get the fitting wrong and you can be back in a few thousand miles for another.

If you mod the cam, usually require ECU remapping to get the best out of it which rapidly starts to push up the cost.

[steve1c]

Although from what I've heard the MC2 is a good cam (V8 Developments) and doesnt require ecu mods.

[mongoose]

steve1c said:

Although from what I've heard the MC2 is a good cam (V8 Developments) and doesnt require ecu mods.

im having the h404 cam fitted at v8d at the mo.this is a hydraulic lifter version of the p404 cam and basically the 404 seperceeds the mc1 and mc2 now.you definately do not have to have the ecu re-mapped to allow this to be fitted,im even having other mods done too,45mm trumpets,fully ported inlet manifold,72mm plenum and yet you still dont need to have an ecu re-map.the very high cost of having the ecu re-mapped(budget on £700 initially then £300 plus rolling road costs each time thereafter!)means ill only have it done once,if at all.this will be when i know ive finished modding for sure.ill also be looking at alternative mapping-ie other makes of programmable ecu.as steve says the ecu re-map will get the best from any mods its just not compulsory ,as many think,thats all.

>> Edited by mongoose on Thursday 3rd March 18:01

[madhatter]

Had mine replaces on a 450 before christmas. Cost around a grand. Made one hell of a difference.

[The Surveyor]

a thousand pounds...

I think i need to get those knee pads out and go and see the bank.

How much was the parts element?

Also 'pre-load' is mentioned in the bible, as well as here, but didn't think that this was applicable on a hydrulic tappet head.

Much thinking, and a little exploring to do me thinks..

[2 sheds]

The Surveyor said:

I have a suspicion that my cam is on its way out. Tried the exhaust gasket route, and the rattle is still there, and gets slightly louder under load (if that is relavant).

One thing to consider, if louder under load still points to exhaust gas leak, the primary pipes on the manifolds tend to hair line crack in the centre where you can't reach or inspect, this would produce a soft clacking noise as with gaskets, although no quite so mettalic.

Just a thought.

Tim

[steve1c]

madhatter said:

Had mine replaces on a 450 before christmas. Cost around a grand. Made one hell of a difference.

Madhatter - What cam did you use?

>> Edited by steve1c on Tuesday 1st March 16:51

[madhatter]

A Kingstone cam as I recall as recomended by Austec through the receipt says TVR Power camshaft.

Camshaft 165
Tappets x16 132
Plenam Gasket 22
Serp Rocker Cover Gas 33
Rocker 19
Labour 445
+VAT

These are the main bits. Austec said the cam ware was most likely due to overheavy cam follower springs fitted by TVR so these were replaced as well. It'll also need an oil change and possibly a remap after a 1000 once the cam has settled in.

Cheers
Andy....



>> Edited by madhatter on Tuesday 1st March 18:12

>> Edited by madhatter on Tuesday 1st March 18:12

>> Edited by madhatter on Tuesday 1st March 18:13

>> Edited by madhatter on Tuesday 1st March 18:13

[steve1c]

[quote=madhatter]A Kingstone cam as I recall as recomended by Austec through the receipt says TVR Power camshaft.

Camshaft 165
Tappets x16 132
Plenam Gasket 22
Serp Rocker Cover Gas 33
Rocker 19
Labour 445
+VAT

These are the main bits. Austec said the cam ware was most likely due to overheavy cam follower springs fitted by TVR so these were replaced as well. It'll also need an oil change and possibly a remap after a 1000 once the cam has settled in.

Cheers
Andy....


Thanks for the info. Hope to get mine back tomorrow. Had an MC2 fitted as previous cam worn down like it was made of toffee. Chap in Peninsula said it was the same reason, strong springs pressing too hard.
Are you saying that it will need an oil change a 1000 miles into the cam wear?

Steve