Discussion
Hi all,
Having just replaced my rad and new silicone hoses etc, just wondering on what is the best coolant to use.. I was previously using the red halfords advanced, and done the same this time.
However looking into it the oat type coolant does not seem to be recommended for brass/ copper radiators?
Now wondering if this is why my last rad started leaking again - I replaced it around 6 years ago..
Now thinking if I should drain, flush and refil with the blue type??
Having just replaced my rad and new silicone hoses etc, just wondering on what is the best coolant to use.. I was previously using the red halfords advanced, and done the same this time.
However looking into it the oat type coolant does not seem to be recommended for brass/ copper radiators?
Now wondering if this is why my last rad started leaking again - I replaced it around 6 years ago..
Now thinking if I should drain, flush and refil with the blue type??
This is from the Griffith Parts List and its from when I refilled my system after a body lift
Fluids and Lubricants
Most fluids and lubricants have improved since the cars were originally built and the OE spec versions are either no longer available or there are better out there. Here are some recommendations for suitable alternatives.
Antifreeze
Type Quanitity recommended by
VAG G12++ (barreti)
I've also found this information when researching lifespans of Antifreeze
2-3 years for glycol coolant.
4-5 years for OAT coolant. (G12 plus plus is OAT)
Most manufacturers also specify mileages at which they should be replaced if reached before the time period, as it'll only survive so many heat cycles.
The anti-freeze properties remain unaffected, but the anti-boil and anti-corrosion properties of the coolant go for a burton.
Fluids and Lubricants
Most fluids and lubricants have improved since the cars were originally built and the OE spec versions are either no longer available or there are better out there. Here are some recommendations for suitable alternatives.
Antifreeze
Type Quanitity recommended by
VAG G12++ (barreti)
I've also found this information when researching lifespans of Antifreeze
2-3 years for glycol coolant.
4-5 years for OAT coolant. (G12 plus plus is OAT)
Most manufacturers also specify mileages at which they should be replaced if reached before the time period, as it'll only survive so many heat cycles.
The anti-freeze properties remain unaffected, but the anti-boil and anti-corrosion properties of the coolant go for a burton.
VAG G12 
too much scare mongering going on about these long life coolants 
no problem with copper/solder or silicone hoses 
dont matter if you renew the blue 2 year or whatever once a week you will never achieve the protection of the G12/G13 coolants, I have used this for over 10 years now and on various other older vehicles with no issues as expected apart from nice clean healthy cooling systems, and I dont fit nothing I wouldn't use on my own cars
too much scare mongering going on about these long life coolants no problem with copper/solder or silicone hoses dont matter if you renew the blue 2 year or whatever once a week you will never achieve the protection of the G12/G13 coolants, I have used this for over 10 years now and on various other older vehicles with no issues as expected apart from nice clean healthy cooling systems, and I dont fit nothing I wouldn't use on my own cars 
LongBaz said:
How much does the system need? I have only put water in mine at the moment just in case I needed to drain it again.
Barrie
IIRC about 11/12 litres Baz I always pre-mix outside of the car using a clean bucket etc that way you know your mixing ratio stays on target Barrie
40% coolant gets by vote and if you live in a hard water area use distilled water to make up the other 60% I use it regardless as its so cheap anyway, sounds like your making good progress 
Here's my take for what its worth.
Firstly its essential people know that traditional blue glycol (G11 and the like) doesn't mix happily with the newer pink oat stuff (G12 ect), if you mix them you will be creating a very nasty jelly substance which is extremely bad news for the health and correct functioning of your cooling system. If you are planning to switch from blue to pink you absolutely must completely flush your coolant system to remove ALL the blue glycol. A complete coolant purge sounds easy but in practice for the home mechanic it isn't always straightforward, for example if you don't have access to an airline you very rarely get everything out of the more difficult places like the heater matrix.
So I've just taken the easy safe option and stuck with good old blue, simply because that's what the car has always had and with no coolant system issues at all. The manufacturers say replace your blue glycol every 2 years but if you were selling the stuff you would say that, in my experience a quality blue glycol will last and remain effective quite a bit longer. I've always changed mine every three years or so and had no problems with this schedule, you also can't deny the facts that traditional blue glycol has been around for ever, is proven totally effective and at £16 for five litres it's also excellent value for money.
The Comma Super Coldmaster I've been using for years is definitely good quality stuff confirmed by the fact it meets quality standard BS 6580-1992 and AFNOR NFR 15-601, Super Coldmaster also contains all the corrosion inhibitors that are so important with an aluminium engine like the Rover V8. I accept the pink oat glycol lasts a bit longer but my ability to completely flush out every last drop of blue at home without an airline always concerns me enough to stick with the traditional stuff. My thinking is if I failed to get ever last drop of the blue out of the heater matrix and switched to red it's highly likely to form that dreaded jelly in my coolant system, and that's something I'm super keen to avoid at all costs.
If the red stuff offered massive advantages over the blue I might be tempted by it and make a special effort to do the full flush & bleed up that would inevitably follow, but for me and for all the above reasons its always made sense just to stick with good old blue glycol as it's easier to work with and I know it works just fine.
I've come to the conclusion the advantages of switching to the pink stuff quite simply don't outweigh the risks of jelly and the hassle factor of purging the system of blue, and here's what happens if you get it wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6j9jQYx6Fs
The above is just my personal take on all this, if you want to use the pink oat stuff there's no question it's an excellent product if used from day one or after an extremely thorough flush, just make sure you never mix it with blue!
Firstly its essential people know that traditional blue glycol (G11 and the like) doesn't mix happily with the newer pink oat stuff (G12 ect), if you mix them you will be creating a very nasty jelly substance which is extremely bad news for the health and correct functioning of your cooling system. If you are planning to switch from blue to pink you absolutely must completely flush your coolant system to remove ALL the blue glycol. A complete coolant purge sounds easy but in practice for the home mechanic it isn't always straightforward, for example if you don't have access to an airline you very rarely get everything out of the more difficult places like the heater matrix.
So I've just taken the easy safe option and stuck with good old blue, simply because that's what the car has always had and with no coolant system issues at all. The manufacturers say replace your blue glycol every 2 years but if you were selling the stuff you would say that, in my experience a quality blue glycol will last and remain effective quite a bit longer. I've always changed mine every three years or so and had no problems with this schedule, you also can't deny the facts that traditional blue glycol has been around for ever, is proven totally effective and at £16 for five litres it's also excellent value for money.
The Comma Super Coldmaster I've been using for years is definitely good quality stuff confirmed by the fact it meets quality standard BS 6580-1992 and AFNOR NFR 15-601, Super Coldmaster also contains all the corrosion inhibitors that are so important with an aluminium engine like the Rover V8. I accept the pink oat glycol lasts a bit longer but my ability to completely flush out every last drop of blue at home without an airline always concerns me enough to stick with the traditional stuff. My thinking is if I failed to get ever last drop of the blue out of the heater matrix and switched to red it's highly likely to form that dreaded jelly in my coolant system, and that's something I'm super keen to avoid at all costs.
If the red stuff offered massive advantages over the blue I might be tempted by it and make a special effort to do the full flush & bleed up that would inevitably follow, but for me and for all the above reasons its always made sense just to stick with good old blue glycol as it's easier to work with and I know it works just fine.
I've come to the conclusion the advantages of switching to the pink stuff quite simply don't outweigh the risks of jelly and the hassle factor of purging the system of blue, and here's what happens if you get it wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6j9jQYx6Fs
The above is just my personal take on all this, if you want to use the pink oat stuff there's no question it's an excellent product if used from day one or after an extremely thorough flush, just make sure you never mix it with blue!
Hedgehopper
Sunday 28th December 2014
I contacted Comma to see if I could use the same A/F in my Griff and X-Trail...the answer was no.
The recommended A/F for the Griff is Comma Xstream G48 silicate based inhibitor.
The G30 OAT (organic) based A/F seems to be for more modern engines.
TvrIanD
Sunday 28th December 2014
Thanks for the recommendations. The Comma Product finder (http://www.commaoil.com/products/) also confirms Xstream G48 for a '97 Griff.
Sunday 28th December 2014
I contacted Comma to see if I could use the same A/F in my Griff and X-Trail...the answer was no.
The recommended A/F for the Griff is Comma Xstream G48 silicate based inhibitor.
The G30 OAT (organic) based A/F seems to be for more modern engines.
TvrIanD
Sunday 28th December 2014
Thanks for the recommendations. The Comma Product finder (http://www.commaoil.com/products/) also confirms Xstream G48 for a '97 Griff.
Not sure I have 100% faith in that Comma product finder when in my case it can't even recommend an engine oil or a coolant product???
It also suggested a diff oil that does not have the essential limited slip additives, this is clearly wrong!
At the end of the day choosing antifreeze for the old Rover V8 isn't a massively technical challenge and you certainly don't need an iffy product finder to help you make your choice. Use any brand of quality blue ethylene glycol that meets quality standard BS 6580-1992 and or AFNOR NFR 15-601 and it'll work just fine.
The only notable difference between the Xstream G48 and the Super Coldmaster is one is green and the other is blue, the green Xstream G48 does have a slightly longer shelf life but in performance terms there's no real difference between the two at all.
Unlike the pink/red OAT stuff you can mix green and blue together with no risk of the dreaded jelly reaction, that's because green and blue are both essentially the same traditional ethylene glycol product.
Green (and yellow) ethylene glycol products were your halfway house technology between blue and red/pink OAT products, green contains silicates which are good corrosion inhibitors but they do have their drawbacks. If left longer than two years the silicates build up inside your engine and can actually contribute to cooling system problems. Silicate drop out occurs after the coolant has been "spent", and the inhibitors drop out of solution. Silicates are blamed for deposit build up in radiators and heaters causing engine overheating and poor heater performance.
Once the silicates drop out of solution dissimilar metal corrosion is no longer suppressed, and metal components begin to deteriorate. Old fashioned blue ethylene glycol doesn't contain silicates relying on more traditional corrosion inhibitors that still perform well in aluminum engines, for these reasons there is a move back to blue in some circles.
Personally I like good old fashioned blue ethylene glycol, I change it every three years or so with no issues whatsoever.
It also suggested a diff oil that does not have the essential limited slip additives, this is clearly wrong!
At the end of the day choosing antifreeze for the old Rover V8 isn't a massively technical challenge and you certainly don't need an iffy product finder to help you make your choice. Use any brand of quality blue ethylene glycol that meets quality standard BS 6580-1992 and or AFNOR NFR 15-601 and it'll work just fine.
The only notable difference between the Xstream G48 and the Super Coldmaster is one is green and the other is blue, the green Xstream G48 does have a slightly longer shelf life but in performance terms there's no real difference between the two at all.
Unlike the pink/red OAT stuff you can mix green and blue together with no risk of the dreaded jelly reaction, that's because green and blue are both essentially the same traditional ethylene glycol product.
Green (and yellow) ethylene glycol products were your halfway house technology between blue and red/pink OAT products, green contains silicates which are good corrosion inhibitors but they do have their drawbacks. If left longer than two years the silicates build up inside your engine and can actually contribute to cooling system problems. Silicate drop out occurs after the coolant has been "spent", and the inhibitors drop out of solution. Silicates are blamed for deposit build up in radiators and heaters causing engine overheating and poor heater performance.
Once the silicates drop out of solution dissimilar metal corrosion is no longer suppressed, and metal components begin to deteriorate. Old fashioned blue ethylene glycol doesn't contain silicates relying on more traditional corrosion inhibitors that still perform well in aluminum engines, for these reasons there is a move back to blue in some circles.
Personally I like good old fashioned blue ethylene glycol, I change it every three years or so with no issues whatsoever.
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