A few thoughts on a rainy summers day....
Discussion
Just to be clear, I have been thinking of making this post for quite a while now, which is to say this isn't an alcohol induced rant produced on a sudden whim kind of thing... That said I am on my second bottle of Merlot, but as a seasoned drinker this will in no way affect the honesty or clarity of what I'm about to say... No, really guys, this is a fairly sober post 
hic...
I was about to go out for a blat this afternoon, I needed a few bits from the local supermarket, so after a morning of doing feck all I jumped in the shower and soaked it up for about 15 minutes, emerging to find the heavens had opened and I could hardly see from one end of the garden to the other.... Proper b
d coz I'd left the Golf in the pub car park yesterday and wasn't in a hurry to unleash beastie with about 20ft viz and standing water at every corner
Anyway, what I really wanted to talk about and get a few opinions on was horse power and torque... more specifically horse power and torque in a Chimaera...
So, I've had beastie rocking on for 6 years now, and had some of the most amazing driving experiences possible, and I say this having had various rapid bits of kit previously... I have however, reached a point where I know that beastie is more than fast enough for a really enjoyable on the road driving experience.. Just the shove in the back and noise driving around the countryside B roads is sufficient to make me grin and feel good inside... I love the way it goes round corners, I love the way the noise builds all the way up to 6k rpm, I love the wind in what little hair I have left... I love the attention she gets, and I hugely love the pleasure other people seem to get from looking/listening/being taken out for a ride in the old girl
I digress... back to the point of my post, horse power and torque... Having done much research, I am of the opinion firstly that peak figures are great... but it's the delivery that's more important.. I say this this because I have a great peak torque figure but the delivery is very progressive and very smooth... OK so it's not great for a lazy driver but it does suit me... and it doesn't catch you out on oily roundabouts, snow, or ice. Or, more embarrassingly that first sighting lap on a damp track
So, I have come to the following conclusion and would like to hear your opinions chaps... I know many of you will not agree with what I think, but then if we all agreed with each other then only one of us would be necessary..
The ultimate Chimaera... Progressive delivery, 450bhp and 500ft/lbs torque... and there you have it...
What say you?
hic...I was about to go out for a blat this afternoon, I needed a few bits from the local supermarket, so after a morning of doing feck all I jumped in the shower and soaked it up for about 15 minutes, emerging to find the heavens had opened and I could hardly see from one end of the garden to the other.... Proper b
d coz I'd left the Golf in the pub car park yesterday and wasn't in a hurry to unleash beastie with about 20ft viz and standing water at every corner Anyway, what I really wanted to talk about and get a few opinions on was horse power and torque... more specifically horse power and torque in a Chimaera...
So, I've had beastie rocking on for 6 years now, and had some of the most amazing driving experiences possible, and I say this having had various rapid bits of kit previously... I have however, reached a point where I know that beastie is more than fast enough for a really enjoyable on the road driving experience.. Just the shove in the back and noise driving around the countryside B roads is sufficient to make me grin and feel good inside... I love the way it goes round corners, I love the way the noise builds all the way up to 6k rpm, I love the wind in what little hair I have left... I love the attention she gets, and I hugely love the pleasure other people seem to get from looking/listening/being taken out for a ride in the old girl
I digress... back to the point of my post, horse power and torque... Having done much research, I am of the opinion firstly that peak figures are great... but it's the delivery that's more important.. I say this this because I have a great peak torque figure but the delivery is very progressive and very smooth... OK so it's not great for a lazy driver but it does suit me... and it doesn't catch you out on oily roundabouts, snow, or ice. Or, more embarrassingly that first sighting lap on a damp track
So, I have come to the following conclusion and would like to hear your opinions chaps... I know many of you will not agree with what I think, but then if we all agreed with each other then only one of us would be necessary..
The ultimate Chimaera... Progressive delivery, 450bhp and 500ft/lbs torque... and there you have it...
What say you?
I think I have to agree with you..torque is more important than ultimate bhp if you talking usable power and especially on track...and from my experience 500 of either is as far as the chassis will go, and if I'm being honest, probably a little beyond its capability...but it's addictive no matter how much I want to say it's too far, I still think...(when it all works 
) ...fk me this is the best fun you can have ( more power the the car is capable of)....but once you reach that there is absolutely no point in going further than that hence (for me) 500 is that tipping point. Plus, it's a nice round number 
) ...fk me this is the best fun you can have ( more power the the car is capable of)....but once you reach that there is absolutely no point in going further than that hence (for me) 500 is that tipping point. Plus, it's a nice round number Edited by Bluebottle on Monday 11th July 22:22
The LS conversion with 6.2 litres and 625 BHP is quite popular and possibly the ultimate but would that be undrivable? The one on sprint a few months ago read as though it was good. I suppose it's down to personal choice?
More importantly how's the Merlot? Is it going down well? If it were loads stronger like a fine port would you still be half way through your second bottle? Ah see what I've done there?
More importantly how's the Merlot? Is it going down well? If it were loads stronger like a fine port would you still be half way through your second bottle? Ah see what I've done there?
If you can get 500 ft lbs torque which must be over 300 at say 2000 revs, then will this become unmanageable in stop/start traffic,
Always requiring the use of clutch to control the power or will the engine still pull from low revs gradually, I'm imagining the car lurching forward with great mass at the introduction of any amount of throttle or can the engine management be trained to give gentle progressive power when needs be?
Are you talking F1 Or massive n/a Richard,, that dictates how I'd feel about it.
I looked at a number of LS powered Tvr's at Topcats on Saturday,
They almost appear bullet proof,
The reason I say this is because I'm not convinced F1 works for these engines for any real milage, just take a look at some big end shells from a 300 bhp that's showing signs of wear at say 50,000 miles,, not good so FI may well shorten the life of the engine considerably, if milage is not an issue then ok.
If I was considering 500 Hp etc I think I'd be considering suspension and hub mods at the very least, strengthened chassis,
I'd want shocks that cost £3000 and drive shafts and a decent dif and on and on,,
Huge cost but if I had the money I'd do it all incl a Sportmotive chassis and LS engine.
Always requiring the use of clutch to control the power or will the engine still pull from low revs gradually, I'm imagining the car lurching forward with great mass at the introduction of any amount of throttle or can the engine management be trained to give gentle progressive power when needs be?
Are you talking F1 Or massive n/a Richard,, that dictates how I'd feel about it.
I looked at a number of LS powered Tvr's at Topcats on Saturday,
They almost appear bullet proof,
The reason I say this is because I'm not convinced F1 works for these engines for any real milage, just take a look at some big end shells from a 300 bhp that's showing signs of wear at say 50,000 miles,, not good so FI may well shorten the life of the engine considerably, if milage is not an issue then ok.
If I was considering 500 Hp etc I think I'd be considering suspension and hub mods at the very least, strengthened chassis,
I'd want shocks that cost £3000 and drive shafts and a decent dif and on and on,,
Huge cost but if I had the money I'd do it all incl a Sportmotive chassis and LS engine.
So that's more Torque at 2000 revs than I've got at 4000 revs,, fk me with a bent stick!
Yes it's lovely Peter, I reckon that's your plenum that gives you smooth delivery at low revs then,
So even if I'd got grip and not missed a gear you'd have spanked me at Shakey anyway
See the thing is Richard look at the 1/4 mile times,,
So my little 4.6 on puny trumpets and a crap driver does 13.1
If it did it in 12.1 would that one second really matter to any fker,
Yes you can feel it and it probably feels much faster but in reality one second over 440 yards,,, all for what.
Drivability is simply the most important thing to me, you want to get in and drive with no issues and from cold! Big big ask for a highly tuned engine if you ask me.
I'm not sure what your saying Richard, I'd re build your MG, see how that feels again, keep the Chim tucked up, then if the mood takes you flog the MG and do a major job on the Tvr!
But I'm not you
I just think if I wanted huge power that lasts I'd go LS with a 6 speed box and re build my car around that.
Your cars as fast as Peters isn't it, that's what your always saying isn't it that's a lie by the way
k me with a bent stick! Yes it's lovely Peter, I reckon that's your plenum that gives you smooth delivery at low revs then,
So even if I'd got grip and not missed a gear you'd have spanked me at Shakey anyway
See the thing is Richard look at the 1/4 mile times,,
So my little 4.6 on puny trumpets and a crap driver does 13.1
If it did it in 12.1 would that one second really matter to any f
ker, Yes you can feel it and it probably feels much faster but in reality one second over 440 yards,,, all for what.
Drivability is simply the most important thing to me, you want to get in and drive with no issues and from cold! Big big ask for a highly tuned engine if you ask me.
I'm not sure what your saying Richard, I'd re build your MG, see how that feels again, keep the Chim tucked up, then if the mood takes you flog the MG and do a major job on the Tvr!
But I'm not you
I just think if I wanted huge power that lasts I'd go LS with a 6 speed box and re build my car around that.
Your cars as fast as Peters isn't it, that's what your always saying isn't it
that's a lie by the way Evenin' Mr Merlot, sounds like its time to move up a gear or two. If you're going to do it then FI is the way. Remember NA means not applicable. 
Don't be put off by the NAs as my car drives perfectly okay from 1,200rpm in 5th. Probably helps that at 1,500rpm there are just 230ft/lbs, then 2,500rpm are 260 and at 3,700rpm are 481ft/lbs at the wheels. So you have an easy car to drive unless you press on then everything is unleashed at once which is what I think you want? The huge surge of power, the adrenaline rush, the buzz, the I-want-to-do-it-again-and-again?
If so, then there is only one option......
Before and after:
Don't be put off by the NAs as my car drives perfectly okay from 1,200rpm in 5th. Probably helps that at 1,500rpm there are just 230ft/lbs, then 2,500rpm are 260 and at 3,700rpm are 481ft/lbs at the wheels. So you have an easy car to drive unless you press on then everything is unleashed at once which is what I think you want? The huge surge of power, the adrenaline rush, the buzz, the I-want-to-do-it-again-and-again?
If so, then there is only one option......
Before and after:
Edited by N7GTX on Tuesday 12th July 00:43
ClassiChimi said:
fk me with a bent stick!
k me with a bent stick! ClassiChimi said:
Your cars as fast as Peters isn't it, that's what your always saying isn't it that's a lie by the way
Right, just for the record Al, I have never said that... I have made claim to having the highest output (on the forum) for a naturally aspirated five litre... although that was some time ago and I'm sure its been beaten by now.... that's a lie by the way I think N5GTY8Z has the right idea, and there's no question Bluebottle knows what he's talking about (I do believe I helped push his Griff at Shakey a few years back
) It's very likely any performance upgrades are going to be driver tuition rather than increased engine power, but after much chatting and reading I'm fairly sure the 450/500 scenario is near optimum..... I suspect I may be approaching AM age rather than geriatric hooligan
Think it's time you took an LS engined Chim for a drive Richard.
Not just to see what an LS feels like (I did have a passenger ride in Quinny's LS Wheelbarrow, and I think you would find it a hoot), but to see how your car will feel after you have emptied your wallet to get another 100+ ft lbs and bhp.
You can try before you buy.
Just ask on PH or Faceache.
I know a guy near Peterborough who has a 5.4 SC if you want to chat to him or ride in his car.
Not just to see what an LS feels like (I did have a passenger ride in Quinny's LS Wheelbarrow, and I think you would find it a hoot), but to see how your car will feel after you have emptied your wallet to get another 100+ ft lbs and bhp.
You can try before you buy.
Just ask on PH or Faceache.
I know a guy near Peterborough who has a 5.4 SC if you want to chat to him or ride in his car.
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