Using jump leads
Discussion
I accidentally left the lights on overnight last week and flattened the battery.
As it's a few years since the last time this happened, I'd forgotten what a pain it is to have to try and connect jump leads to the battery in the footwell.
Has anyone installed jump lead terminals under the bonnet or anywhere else?
As it's a few years since the last time this happened, I'd forgotten what a pain it is to have to try and connect jump leads to the battery in the footwell.
Has anyone installed jump lead terminals under the bonnet or anywhere else?
My advice would be to avoid using jump leads altogether, because nine times out of ten irreversible battery failure will follow, it may not strike immediately, or even the day after jumping, but sometime soon after the event you'll almost always find yourself forced to go shopping for a new battery.
There is only one way to recover a fully discharged lead acid battery, GENTLY!
And jump starting is not gentle, as soon as the engine starts the alternator will simply try to dump as much as it can and as quickly as it can into your fully discharged battery... and that is the very most brutal thing you can do to any fully discharged battery.
Try to resist the temptation to jump start your car unless you're in an emergency situation or you're completely comfortable with the idea you'll almost certainly be finishing the battery off once and for all.
The proper solution is always to try to recovery a fully discharged battery as slowly as possible, patience is required. The lower the amps the better the chances of recovery, back in the day I was taught by the old boys in the workshop to connect a bulb across the battery to create a drain and slow the charging process.
While the bulb trick will still work well I should point out battery chargers are way more sophisticated these days and will often have a recovery setting.
If you have a recovery mode on your charger use it, if not select the lowest amp setting you can, if the amp rate is fixed and higher than desirable use the above bulb trick and run the charger for no longer than two hours at a time with a one hour rest period in between, repeat until fully charged but be aware this could take 12 hours or more using the above process.
Or just jump start the car and resign yourself to buying a new battery, because jump starting is the best way to kill off your already extremely vulnerable discharged battery.
On the other hand, gently does it and steady as she goes, and you might just save yourself the £75 it'll cost you to buy an average quality Chimaera suitable battery.
Hope this helps?
Dave.
There is only one way to recover a fully discharged lead acid battery, GENTLY!
And jump starting is not gentle, as soon as the engine starts the alternator will simply try to dump as much as it can and as quickly as it can into your fully discharged battery... and that is the very most brutal thing you can do to any fully discharged battery.
Try to resist the temptation to jump start your car unless you're in an emergency situation or you're completely comfortable with the idea you'll almost certainly be finishing the battery off once and for all.
The proper solution is always to try to recovery a fully discharged battery as slowly as possible, patience is required. The lower the amps the better the chances of recovery, back in the day I was taught by the old boys in the workshop to connect a bulb across the battery to create a drain and slow the charging process.
While the bulb trick will still work well I should point out battery chargers are way more sophisticated these days and will often have a recovery setting.
If you have a recovery mode on your charger use it, if not select the lowest amp setting you can, if the amp rate is fixed and higher than desirable use the above bulb trick and run the charger for no longer than two hours at a time with a one hour rest period in between, repeat until fully charged but be aware this could take 12 hours or more using the above process.
Or just jump start the car and resign yourself to buying a new battery, because jump starting is the best way to kill off your already extremely vulnerable discharged battery.
On the other hand, gently does it and steady as she goes, and you might just save yourself the £75 it'll cost you to buy an average quality Chimaera suitable battery.
Hope this helps?
Dave.
ChimpOnGas said:
..Some very sensible stuff.
As always Dave, your advice is spot on.However, there are those odd occasions, when you're away from home, your charger, and a convenient mains supply, when you've no other option but to jump start.
The front chassis rail looks the place to mount some terminals, so do I just cable the +ve to the back of the starter motor and the -ve to earth?
And what size cable should I use
The voice of doom speaketh the truth, further more he offers an infinitely better solution.....
Instead of buying an Anderson jump lead connection kit which is in effect planning for a failure, I'd invest in something that significantly reduces the probability of the failure in the first place.
To that end I highly recommend putting your jump lead money towards a Battery Brain:
http://www.batterybrain.co.uk/product/battery-brai...
Buy the type 3 Gold version that comes with two IR remote control fobs, this model is perfect for TVRs as you can lock the car as normal before remotely disconnecting your battery. This is ideal for layups longer than a week especially if you store your car where there's no access to mains power to run a maintenance charger.
Disconnecting will eliminate the punishing effect parasitic drains inflict on your battery, and higher than normal parasitic drains are extremely common on our cars, a remotely disconnected battery also offers a further level of security.
Better still if you just choose to lock your car and walk away the Battery Brain will constantly and automatically monitor your battery, if the battery falls below a given state of charge the Battery Brain will disconnect it. This means if you accidentally leave your lights on or the classic TVR parasitic drain starts to get the better of the battery the Battery Brain will automatically step in to ensure there's always enough charge left to start your car.
The Battery Brain is therefore an infinitely superior solution to resorting to jump leads which really should only be considered as a last resort for the reasons I've outlined in my first response above. Why spend money on an Anderson jump lead connector when you could put the money towards a Battery Brain device that works to help you prevent the failure happening in the first place?
I've been using the Battery Brain for over five years now, I initially used it to solve the problem of having no mains power in my council lockup where I kept my TVR for many years. During this period I proved using the remote disconnect method the car could be left for three months or more and still start on the button.
These days the car is kept in my garage at my new house so sits on a mains charger but I still use the Battery Brain to disconnect the battery before I put it on charge, doing so isolates the car's electrical system which reduces the risk of a TVR wiring related fire which sadly are not uncommon. It also adds a further level of security and means I'm float charging a disconnected battery which is the perfect arrangement for optimising lead acid battery longevity.
To the OP with his fully discharged battery I recommend starting with a new battery, buy the best one you can afford and that means the heaviest and biggest battery that fits, look for AGM technology. Don't be afraid to delete the TVR battery box as there are far better solutions available for securing your battery in the footwell without suffering the restricted size of the TVR battery box.
Once you've fitted your new quality AGM battery you can top it off with a Battery Brain (type 3 Gold version), used as described above your Battery Brain & new battery will ensure you never suffer another flat battery and will deliver the following four clear benefits:
1. Greatly extends your battery life (likely measured in years)
2. Adds an additional level of security
3. Significantly reduces the risk of a TVR wiring related electrical fire
4. Eliminates those highly frustrating "flat battery - no start" disappointments
Surely therefore a Battery Brain is an infinitely better way to spend your money than buying an Anderson connector for jump leads, a system that just plans for and assumes a failure you could really do without in the first place!
Resolving a problem is always better than planning for failure
Instead of buying an Anderson jump lead connection kit which is in effect planning for a failure, I'd invest in something that significantly reduces the probability of the failure in the first place.
To that end I highly recommend putting your jump lead money towards a Battery Brain:
http://www.batterybrain.co.uk/product/battery-brai...
Buy the type 3 Gold version that comes with two IR remote control fobs, this model is perfect for TVRs as you can lock the car as normal before remotely disconnecting your battery. This is ideal for layups longer than a week especially if you store your car where there's no access to mains power to run a maintenance charger.
Disconnecting will eliminate the punishing effect parasitic drains inflict on your battery, and higher than normal parasitic drains are extremely common on our cars, a remotely disconnected battery also offers a further level of security.
Better still if you just choose to lock your car and walk away the Battery Brain will constantly and automatically monitor your battery, if the battery falls below a given state of charge the Battery Brain will disconnect it. This means if you accidentally leave your lights on or the classic TVR parasitic drain starts to get the better of the battery the Battery Brain will automatically step in to ensure there's always enough charge left to start your car.
The Battery Brain is therefore an infinitely superior solution to resorting to jump leads which really should only be considered as a last resort for the reasons I've outlined in my first response above. Why spend money on an Anderson jump lead connector when you could put the money towards a Battery Brain device that works to help you prevent the failure happening in the first place?
I've been using the Battery Brain for over five years now, I initially used it to solve the problem of having no mains power in my council lockup where I kept my TVR for many years. During this period I proved using the remote disconnect method the car could be left for three months or more and still start on the button.
These days the car is kept in my garage at my new house so sits on a mains charger but I still use the Battery Brain to disconnect the battery before I put it on charge, doing so isolates the car's electrical system which reduces the risk of a TVR wiring related fire which sadly are not uncommon. It also adds a further level of security and means I'm float charging a disconnected battery which is the perfect arrangement for optimising lead acid battery longevity.
To the OP with his fully discharged battery I recommend starting with a new battery, buy the best one you can afford and that means the heaviest and biggest battery that fits, look for AGM technology. Don't be afraid to delete the TVR battery box as there are far better solutions available for securing your battery in the footwell without suffering the restricted size of the TVR battery box.
Once you've fitted your new quality AGM battery you can top it off with a Battery Brain (type 3 Gold version), used as described above your Battery Brain & new battery will ensure you never suffer another flat battery and will deliver the following four clear benefits:
1. Greatly extends your battery life (likely measured in years)
2. Adds an additional level of security
3. Significantly reduces the risk of a TVR wiring related electrical fire
4. Eliminates those highly frustrating "flat battery - no start" disappointments
Surely therefore a Battery Brain is an infinitely better way to spend your money than buying an Anderson connector for jump leads, a system that just plans for and assumes a failure you could really do without in the first place!
Resolving a problem is always better than planning for failure
As always Dave your contributions are well considered, informative and much appreciated, however, a new battery and a Battery Brain will be towards £200. Crikey!, and here's me thinking that I could utilse the offcuts of 25mm2 battery cable I have left from rewiring my boat, for a no-cost solution!
Whilst Ive no doubt that the Battery Brain could indeed be a useful addition, for the reasons and situations you've described and it will work straight out of the box, couldn't much of the same result be achieved using a simple voltage sensing relay?
Interestingly, one of the FAQ'S on the Battery Brain website is "Can I jump start my battery, whilst Battery Brain is installed?"
The answer given is "Yes. Prior to jumpstarting the vehicle turn your Battery Brain to the off position and follow the vehicle manufacturer’s instructions for jumpstarting the Battery as normal.
Which rather suggests that maybe Battery Brain isnt quite infallible, and still leaves the problem posed in my original question.
Whilst Ive no doubt that the Battery Brain could indeed be a useful addition, for the reasons and situations you've described and it will work straight out of the box, couldn't much of the same result be achieved using a simple voltage sensing relay?
Interestingly, one of the FAQ'S on the Battery Brain website is "Can I jump start my battery, whilst Battery Brain is installed?"
The answer given is "Yes. Prior to jumpstarting the vehicle turn your Battery Brain to the off position and follow the vehicle manufacturer’s instructions for jumpstarting the Battery as normal.
Which rather suggests that maybe Battery Brain isnt quite infallible, and still leaves the problem posed in my original question.
Edited by sparkythecat on Monday 1st August 09:52
Yes Anderson connectors are in no elegant but they do provide a convenient charging point without grovelling in the footwell. I have arranged mine with a shorting plug so that once parked in the barn it can be unplugged to avoid any battery drain.
Not as sophisticated as Daves solution but it has served me well for 14 years and only on the second battery from new in 1996!
Not as sophisticated as Daves solution but it has served me well for 14 years and only on the second battery from new in 1996!
I'm quite happy with the Anderson connectors in my TVR - it gives flexibility when it would need a jump start (given normal leads connect to it) and plenty of flexibility around trickle charging. As our garages do not have electricity, I use solar panels + crocodile clamps for our different cars. With the Anderson connectors, I can hook up in our different garages without having to do further customization to my trickle charging points.
I still don't understand the fixation with jump starting 
Trust me, jump starting is something to be avoided at all costs and only used as a last resort!
I think people are clinging on to it as some sort of security blanket, the fact is if you never had to jump start your TVR again it would be a major victory, so anything you can do to prevent the need for that harmful jump start is surely a good thing?
The point about jump starting with a Battery Brain fitted is a bit of oxymoron, because the whole point of a Battery Brain is it'll prevent the fully discharged battery situation in the first place, since fitting a Battery Brain I've never even come close to considering reaching for the jump leads and on the subject of cost if you buy the two ends needed to create the full Anderson jump lead set from Leven you're going to be paying...
£45.30 for this half:
http://www.leventechnology.co.uk/products/jumpstar...
And a further £50.34 for the second half:
http://www.leventechnology.co.uk/products/jumpstar...
And for sure you'll be needing both half's to make the system work!
That's £95.64 plus the postage so probably £110.00 in total, compare this with the £97.49 you'll pay for a Battery Brain Gold delivered to your door. So the intelligent Battery Brain preventative solution is actually cheaper than Anderson jump lead kit which only solves the problem once it bites you and will most likely also be party to killing off your battery.
My recommendation to buy a new battery when purchasing and fitting Battery Brain applies equally if you choose the inferior jump start lead option, I make the suggestion only because by your own admission you currently have a fully discharged battery which may or may not be recoverable (very unlikely to recover if you insist on jump starting the car).
Neither a Battery Brain or a set of jump leads can revive a battery beyond the point of no return so either way you are strongly advised to start with a new battery and to never let it become fully discharged again, and between the two its only the £12.51 cheaper Battery Brain option that will help you achieve this.
It's up to you if you take my advice or not, but personally I always favor prevention over an emergency get you out of jail card option like jump leads that will (along with you alternator) torture your already severely weakened and vulnerable fully discharged battery.
Surely its preferable to know you can always reliably just turn the key and drive away than go hunting for a good Samaritan, because even with a neatly installed set of jump leads you'll still need that second car to hook up to
Trust me, jump starting is something to be avoided at all costs and only used as a last resort!
I think people are clinging on to it as some sort of security blanket, the fact is if you never had to jump start your TVR again it would be a major victory, so anything you can do to prevent the need for that harmful jump start is surely a good thing?
The point about jump starting with a Battery Brain fitted is a bit of oxymoron, because the whole point of a Battery Brain is it'll prevent the fully discharged battery situation in the first place, since fitting a Battery Brain I've never even come close to considering reaching for the jump leads and on the subject of cost if you buy the two ends needed to create the full Anderson jump lead set from Leven you're going to be paying...
£45.30 for this half:
http://www.leventechnology.co.uk/products/jumpstar...
And a further £50.34 for the second half:
http://www.leventechnology.co.uk/products/jumpstar...
And for sure you'll be needing both half's to make the system work!
That's £95.64 plus the postage so probably £110.00 in total, compare this with the £97.49 you'll pay for a Battery Brain Gold delivered to your door. So the intelligent Battery Brain preventative solution is actually cheaper than Anderson jump lead kit which only solves the problem once it bites you and will most likely also be party to killing off your battery.
My recommendation to buy a new battery when purchasing and fitting Battery Brain applies equally if you choose the inferior jump start lead option, I make the suggestion only because by your own admission you currently have a fully discharged battery which may or may not be recoverable (very unlikely to recover if you insist on jump starting the car).
Neither a Battery Brain or a set of jump leads can revive a battery beyond the point of no return so either way you are strongly advised to start with a new battery and to never let it become fully discharged again, and between the two its only the £12.51 cheaper Battery Brain option that will help you achieve this.
It's up to you if you take my advice or not, but personally I always favor prevention over an emergency get you out of jail card option like jump leads that will (along with you alternator) torture your already severely weakened and vulnerable fully discharged battery.
Surely its preferable to know you can always reliably just turn the key and drive away than go hunting for a good Samaritan, because even with a neatly installed set of jump leads you'll still need that second car to hook up to
Paulprior said:
I'm listening COG??, I guess you just connect it to the cable supplying the fuse board rather than the starter motor supply?
My only concern is the remote failing, that would be difficult, maybe the one with a remote reset switch is simpler?
It fits on the positive battery terminal, the Battery Brain has a battery post itself to which you simply fit the starter/ live battery cable. At the end of the day a Battery Brain is just a high amp latching solenoid, and in the case of the Gold model one you can conveniently activate with the supplied IR remote fob from outside the car and after you've deadlocked the doors.My only concern is the remote failing, that would be difficult, maybe the one with a remote reset switch is simpler?
If the Battery Brain remote fob battery dies on you its really no different than if your alarm fob batteries goes flat, actually it's easier to sort. Simply use the secret way in, operate the Battery Brain manually and you're back in action. You do get two fobs with the Battery Brain so you may choose to keep your spare fob hidden somewhere safe in the boot along with a spare battery just in case.
I've found the battery in my Battery Brain fob lasts for over three years and gives lots of warning when it needs replacing as you start find you need to get a bit closer to the car for it to work. To be honest the Battery Brain range exposes what a complete joke the TVR alarm remote is, I can disconnect and reconnect my battery 30 meters from the car where the TVR alarm fob will achieve 3 meters at best.
The range is so much better I'm considering using it to pulse the door solenoids so I can lock and unlock the car from a far more practical and extended range, just like any modern car. In the last four years of Battery Brain use I have learned to trust it way more than the TVR wired Meta alarm system and fob, I really can't think of any downsides so much so that if I bought another TVR it would be the very first thing I'd fit to it.
In my experience the Battery Brain totally eliminates the dreaded flat battery situation which is a fantastic reliability enhancement for any car used infrequently where there is no access to mains power, for a TVR I'd go as far as to say its an essential accessory.
Try it for yourself and tell others on here what you think, bet you like it
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