Discussion
I was under my car tonight to remove the starter motor for a check over and was surprised to see that my outriggers looked a lot rustier than i remember, it was only 2 months ago when i looked at them while up on a ramp for the MOT, I hadn't planned on touching them this year and was hoping to clean and paint them next year instead.
So my questions are:- is there anything i can do to slow down any further degradation until next year, it wont be driven over the winter, failing that and i need to do a body lift, i see there are numerous very ell written step by step guides, but which one to follow, i would really like to hear from anyone who is not an expert but found a guide that was easy to follow and correct in its detail, my final question would be an estimation of how many hours are involved?
Thanks
Paul
So my questions are:- is there anything i can do to slow down any further degradation until next year, it wont be driven over the winter, failing that and i need to do a body lift, i see there are numerous very ell written step by step guides, but which one to follow, i would really like to hear from anyone who is not an expert but found a guide that was easy to follow and correct in its detail, my final question would be an estimation of how many hours are involved?
Thanks
Paul
A body lift to simply check and maybe paint the tops of outriggers can be done by doing a 4 inch lift.
This still requires removing body retaining bolts etc but not as much work as a full lift.
There's a number of things that have to be done to take the body off, it's in what order.
I looked at a few built threads awhile back and I'd go by the one that makes that check list the easiest to follow.
If you have the right tools and everything in place I'd have thought you could have the body ready to lift within a day or two.
Someone who's done this a few times and doesn't come up against to many rusted bolts would have it done in a morning I reckon!
Skills for you
This still requires removing body retaining bolts etc but not as much work as a full lift.
There's a number of things that have to be done to take the body off, it's in what order.
I looked at a few built threads awhile back and I'd go by the one that makes that check list the easiest to follow.
If you have the right tools and everything in place I'd have thought you could have the body ready to lift within a day or two.
Someone who's done this a few times and doesn't come up against to many rusted bolts would have it done in a morning I reckon!
Skills for you
The outriggers are tricky things. I bought my car in 2012 and was told by an expert what a lovely solid example I had bought, no issues with the chassis.
12 months later the Church of the Latterday Saints of MOT condemned it as having Holy outriggers.
And sure enough they were, mainly on the upper surfaces near the corners.
30,000 miles later I have had the body off thingy done by a worried professional, who had the whole chassis shot blasted and found much to his surprise that there was very little rust and no metal needing replacement. This, despite the unholy treatment the car has received from me in the mean time.
12 months later the Church of the Latterday Saints of MOT condemned it as having Holy outriggers.
And sure enough they were, mainly on the upper surfaces near the corners.
30,000 miles later I have had the body off thingy done by a worried professional, who had the whole chassis shot blasted and found much to his surprise that there was very little rust and no metal needing replacement. This, despite the unholy treatment the car has received from me in the mean time.
I have also read a lot of these reports but i see anomalies, particularly around exhaust, exhaust manifolds and petrol tank, some say leave them in place, some say remove, i really dont have time to do this this year, but if i must then i dont want to remove more than is required, thats why i was asking to hear from someone who had followed one, i understand from reading this Forum that the manifolds in particular can be a complete pain, im quite sure mine have not been touched for at least 10 years if ever.
QBee, i didnt quite follow, did you have some repairs made after the MOT fail and then checked again after 30k miles?
QBee, i didnt quite follow, did you have some repairs made after the MOT fail and then checked again after 30k miles?
I wrote this one
www.brookbanks.net
However long you think it will take it will take a little longer and in mid January when the ice is on the ground and your garage floor is covered in rust you'll think you've broken your car
The main reason I went for the raise rather than the full body off is when you've got naff all space this allows you to keep everything under cover.
www.brookbanks.net
However long you think it will take it will take a little longer and in mid January when the ice is on the ground and your garage floor is covered in rust you'll think you've broken your car
The main reason I went for the raise rather than the full body off is when you've got naff all space this allows you to keep everything under cover.
Paulprior said:
I have also read a lot of these reports but i see anomalies, particularly around exhaust, exhaust manifolds and petrol tank, some say leave them in place, some say remove, i really dont have time to do this this year, but if i must then i dont want to remove more than is required, thats why i was asking to hear from someone who had followed one, i understand from reading this Forum that the manifolds in particular can be a complete pain, im quite sure mine have not been touched for at least 10 years if ever.
QBee, i didnt quite follow, did you have some repairs made after the MOT fail and then checked again after 30k miles?
I had the outriggers replaced in 2013 after the MOT fail - the top surface of the rails between the outer corners and the central chassis had become holed with rust. I must be the only Tunnel Run organiser in the history of tunnel runs who had to beg a lift in a friend's car, because mine was in bits.QBee, i didnt quite follow, did you have some repairs made after the MOT fail and then checked again after 30k miles?
30,000 miles later the body has been taken off, whilst the engine was out for a rebuild anyway, and we were surprised to find that despite 17 years and 100,000 miles use, the main chassis (and the new, now 30,000 mile, outriggers) were in surprisingly good condition. My car lives outside 24/7, and has been on airfield track days (which blast the chassis with fine grit), so it was doubly surprisingly.
Yes, I do track days, but mainly on race circuits. As anyone else who does track days will tell you, race circuits are actually the kindest surface of all - no loose stones, no pot holes and really smooth tarmac.
The link below is the guide I used and never found any errors, it was a god-send for me, listing all the bolt & earth positions as well.
I definitely recommend this guide.(not written by me)
http://www.autogasp.com/documents/TVRChimaeraBodyL...
I definitely recommend this guide.(not written by me)
http://www.autogasp.com/documents/TVRChimaeraBodyL...
I wrote this guide back in 2009 and have received lots of very positive feedback from people who have used it. So all modesty aside, it might be ok. http://autogasp.com/TVR.php
In terms of time involved... having done it before, having a guide to refer to and not taking into account actual time for repair of chassis or any other work (I changed wishbones as well - Having seen the state of some of them they scare me more than chassis rot. This probably took the most time) I'd estimate:
- strip down to point of being able to lift off body = 2 full days or a weekend
- tidy up other odds and sods = 1 full day or a week of evenings
- put it all back together again = 2 full days or a weekend
On top of that you then add whatever time you need for taking photos (take lots and lots and lots of photos from every possible angle), sourcing bits and bobs you replace (fuel lines, nylocs) and then whatever time you need for storing parts you take off so you can find them again easily = I label and bag everything I take off a car so end up spending a fair bit of time filing rather than taking apart.
Then add in your own contingency for any broken studs, stripped threads and the like.
If you're doing it in spare time, all in all probably a two month project.
AREA said:
I wrote this guide back in 2009 and have received lots of very positive feedback from people who have used it. So all modesty aside, it might be ok. http://autogasp.com/TVR.php
In terms of time involved... having done it before, having a guide to refer to and not taking into account actual time for repair of chassis or any other work (I changed wishbones as well - Having seen the state of some of them they scare me more than chassis rot. This probably took the most time) I'd estimate:
- strip down to point of being able to lift off body = 2 full days or a weekend
- tidy up other odds and sods = 1 full day or a week of evenings
- put it all back together again = 2 full days or a weekend
On top of that you then add whatever time you need for taking photos (take lots and lots and lots of photos from every possible angle), sourcing bits and bobs you replace (fuel lines, nylocs) and then whatever time you need for storing parts you take off so you can find them again easily = I label and bag everything I take off a car so end up spending a fair bit of time filing rather than taking apart.
Then add in your own contingency for any broken studs, stripped threads and the like.
If you're doing it in spare time, all in all probably a two month project.
And don't forget your "admiring my work time" that adds hours In terms of time involved... having done it before, having a guide to refer to and not taking into account actual time for repair of chassis or any other work (I changed wishbones as well - Having seen the state of some of them they scare me more than chassis rot. This probably took the most time) I'd estimate:
- strip down to point of being able to lift off body = 2 full days or a weekend
- tidy up other odds and sods = 1 full day or a week of evenings
- put it all back together again = 2 full days or a weekend
On top of that you then add whatever time you need for taking photos (take lots and lots and lots of photos from every possible angle), sourcing bits and bobs you replace (fuel lines, nylocs) and then whatever time you need for storing parts you take off so you can find them again easily = I label and bag everything I take off a car so end up spending a fair bit of time filing rather than taking apart.
Then add in your own contingency for any broken studs, stripped threads and the like.
If you're doing it in spare time, all in all probably a two month project.
I used to set goals when working on my car, not such a good idea as you start stressing over why you haven't got things done by this day or that.
It's important to focus but I find I enjoy the experience far more if I forget the time and just concentrate on doing it right.
Your not going to be doing this very often, you'll want to look back with pride and so doing a good job is far more important than how long it will take.
Having done bits and bobs on my car I'm under no illusions as to how much effort is required.
AREA said:
I wrote this guide back in 2009 and have received lots of very positive feedback from people who have used it. So all modesty aside, it might be ok. http://autogasp.com/TVR.php
In terms of time involved... having done it before, having a guide to refer to and not taking into account actual time for repair of chassis or any other work (I changed wishbones as well - Having seen the state of some of them they scare me more than chassis rot. This probably took the most time) I'd estimate:
- strip down to point of being able to lift off body = 2 full days or a weekend
- tidy up other odds and sods = 1 full day or a week of evenings
- put it all back together again = 2 full days or a weekend
On top of that you then add whatever time you need for taking photos (take lots and lots and lots of photos from every possible angle), sourcing bits and bobs you replace (fuel lines, nylocs) and then whatever time you need for storing parts you take off so you can find them again easily = I label and bag everything I take off a car so end up spending a fair bit of time filing rather than taking apart.
Then add in your own contingency for any broken studs, stripped threads and the like.
If you're doing it in spare time, all in all probably a two month project.
I saved your guide already ready for when I take the plunge. It struck me as well written and clear so thanks for this.In terms of time involved... having done it before, having a guide to refer to and not taking into account actual time for repair of chassis or any other work (I changed wishbones as well - Having seen the state of some of them they scare me more than chassis rot. This probably took the most time) I'd estimate:
- strip down to point of being able to lift off body = 2 full days or a weekend
- tidy up other odds and sods = 1 full day or a week of evenings
- put it all back together again = 2 full days or a weekend
On top of that you then add whatever time you need for taking photos (take lots and lots and lots of photos from every possible angle), sourcing bits and bobs you replace (fuel lines, nylocs) and then whatever time you need for storing parts you take off so you can find them again easily = I label and bag everything I take off a car so end up spending a fair bit of time filing rather than taking apart.
Then add in your own contingency for any broken studs, stripped threads and the like.
If you're doing it in spare time, all in all probably a two month project.
Thank you all so much for the guides you have written, i think its fantastic that you have spent so much time while doing an already time consuming job to do this all for the future help of others, i salute you.
Now how about equipment, i have enough sockets and such, maybe need a set of imperial combination spanners, but how about the rust removal, if i am just doing a 2 or 3 inch lift then i guess these flappy brushes on a drill will do the job, any recommendations? but i assume i also need something a bit smaller to get into the hard to reach areas, do i need a small flexy shaft with some kind of brush on the end?, again recommendations will be greatly appreciated, i have a local Halfords and Screwfix, hopefully between them i can obtain whatever you guys recomend.
I will leave the paint discussion for another night, i read virtually all the posts on this Forum although not perfect yet with my searches, but i generally see the recommendations for POR15, but it sounds such a pain to use.
Paul
Now how about equipment, i have enough sockets and such, maybe need a set of imperial combination spanners, but how about the rust removal, if i am just doing a 2 or 3 inch lift then i guess these flappy brushes on a drill will do the job, any recommendations? but i assume i also need something a bit smaller to get into the hard to reach areas, do i need a small flexy shaft with some kind of brush on the end?, again recommendations will be greatly appreciated, i have a local Halfords and Screwfix, hopefully between them i can obtain whatever you guys recomend.
I will leave the paint discussion for another night, i read virtually all the posts on this Forum although not perfect yet with my searches, but i generally see the recommendations for POR15, but it sounds such a pain to use.
Paul
AREA said:
I wrote this guide back in 2009 and have received lots of very positive feedback from people who have used it. So all modesty aside, it might be ok. http://autogasp.com/TVR.php
In terms of time involved... having done it before, having a guide to refer to and not taking into account actual time for repair of chassis or any other work (I changed wishbones as well - Having seen the state of some of them they scare me more than chassis rot. This probably took the most time) I'd estimate:
- strip down to point of being able to lift off body = 2 full days or a weekend
- tidy up other odds and sods = 1 full day or a week of evenings
- put it all back together again = 2 full days or a weekend
On top of that you then add whatever time you need for taking photos (take lots and lots and lots of photos from every possible angle), sourcing bits and bobs you replace (fuel lines, nylocs) and then whatever time you need for storing parts you take off so you can find them again easily = I label and bag everything I take off a car so end up spending a fair bit of time filing rather than taking apart.
Then add in your own contingency for any broken studs, stripped threads and the like.
If you're doing it in spare time, all in all probably a two month project.
I think I would have been divorced by now If I did this In terms of time involved... having done it before, having a guide to refer to and not taking into account actual time for repair of chassis or any other work (I changed wishbones as well - Having seen the state of some of them they scare me more than chassis rot. This probably took the most time) I'd estimate:
- strip down to point of being able to lift off body = 2 full days or a weekend
- tidy up other odds and sods = 1 full day or a week of evenings
- put it all back together again = 2 full days or a weekend
On top of that you then add whatever time you need for taking photos (take lots and lots and lots of photos from every possible angle), sourcing bits and bobs you replace (fuel lines, nylocs) and then whatever time you need for storing parts you take off so you can find them again easily = I label and bag everything I take off a car so end up spending a fair bit of time filing rather than taking apart.
Then add in your own contingency for any broken studs, stripped threads and the like.
If you're doing it in spare time, all in all probably a two month project.
As others have said a some great "Body off" guides on here.
I am seriously thinking of starting a body lift this winter. I think I will have to do it in some free moments I have as having a wife and family its not that easy.
But I don't need to tell you lot that do I!
Also I have never done something like this before, so that's a big challenge!
I am seriously thinking of starting a body lift this winter. I think I will have to do it in some free moments I have as having a wife and family its not that easy.
But I don't need to tell you lot that do I!
Also I have never done something like this before, so that's a big challenge!
Paulprior said:
Thank you all so much for the guides you have written, i think its fantastic that you have spent so much time while doing an already time consuming job to do this all for the future help of others, i salute you.
Now how about equipment, i have enough sockets and such, maybe need a set of imperial combination spanners, but how about the rust removal, if i am just doing a 2 or 3 inch lift then i guess these flappy brushes on a drill will do the job, any recommendations? but i assume i also need something a bit smaller to get into the hard to reach areas, do i need a small flexy shaft with some kind of brush on the end?, again recommendations will be greatly appreciated, i have a local Halfords and Screwfix, hopefully between them i can obtain whatever you guys recomend.
I will leave the paint discussion for another night, i read virtually all the posts on this Forum although not perfect yet with my searches, but i generally see the recommendations for POR15, but it sounds such a pain to use.
Paul
Emery tape on a roll. Tear off a length and use it like a shoe shine buff over the rail, you'll be back to clean metal in no time.Now how about equipment, i have enough sockets and such, maybe need a set of imperial combination spanners, but how about the rust removal, if i am just doing a 2 or 3 inch lift then i guess these flappy brushes on a drill will do the job, any recommendations? but i assume i also need something a bit smaller to get into the hard to reach areas, do i need a small flexy shaft with some kind of brush on the end?, again recommendations will be greatly appreciated, i have a local Halfords and Screwfix, hopefully between them i can obtain whatever you guys recomend.
I will leave the paint discussion for another night, i read virtually all the posts on this Forum although not perfect yet with my searches, but i generally see the recommendations for POR15, but it sounds such a pain to use.
Paul
FoxTVR430 - You seem to be in exactly the same situation as me, also i usually work away from home all week so only have weekends, and as you say the family commitments, i have never worked on a car before and hated the idea of doing it, but for some reason i find i want to do work on my TVR, very strange, but i am enjoying it along with following the threads on this forum, the only problem is i see so many things others have done that i would like to do, theres another thread showing a nice fuel rail, mines rusty, i was also just about to remove the rocker covers for a repaint, even found the colour and local supplier, that also will have to wait, i have managed to complete a new dash set, and the starter motor is on the bench, but one at a time and the bodywork must come first, I checked your profile to see if you were anywhere near, obviously not.
WinstonWolf - Thank you very much for your guide and advise, what did you use to clean on top of the corner triangulated sections of the outriggers?
Paul
WinstonWolf - Thank you very much for your guide and advise, what did you use to clean on top of the corner triangulated sections of the outriggers?
Paul
For the centre console you mention 4 M6 nuts, I don't see these on mine, just 2 screws, one each side at the front bottom as below
Maybe the Chim is different to the griff?, what's the necessity of removing the centre console?, do I need to remove the handbrake lever, gear nob and door opener first?
Sorry for all the questions, I just like to be prepared in my head before starting and this is an unexpected job
Paul
Maybe the Chim is different to the griff?, what's the necessity of removing the centre console?, do I need to remove the handbrake lever, gear nob and door opener first?
Sorry for all the questions, I just like to be prepared in my head before starting and this is an unexpected job
Paul
Paulprior said:
FoxTVR430 - You seem to be in exactly the same situation as me, also i usually work away from home all week so only have weekends, and as you say the family commitments, i have never worked on a car before and hated the idea of doing it, but for some reason i find i want to do work on my TVR, very strange, but i am enjoying it along with following the threads on this forum, the only problem is i see so many things others have done that i would like to do, theres another thread showing a nice fuel rail, mines rusty, i was also just about to remove the rocker covers for a repaint, even found the colour and local supplier, that also will have to wait, i have managed to complete a new dash set, and the starter motor is on the bench, but one at a time and the bodywork must come first, I checked your profile to see if you were anywhere near, obviously not.
WinstonWolf - Thank you very much for your guide and advise, what did you use to clean on top of the corner triangulated sections of the outriggers?
Paul
Hi Paul, you summed it up nicely. WinstonWolf - Thank you very much for your guide and advise, what did you use to clean on top of the corner triangulated sections of the outriggers?
Paul
I am looking forward to working on my TVR but as you say there are soooooo many things to do. But as they say "Rome wasn't built in a day!"
I am am hoping to order a lot of stuff and maybe come to collect it in England combine it with a family visit or friends.
Somethings can be ordered via the "F-Bay" and delivered to me for the same price as in England.
Chassis and engine are the main priorities for me, but who knows as the lift goes on, what other Gremlins will pop up
. I don't know how "jojackson4" got his fuel rail looking soooo nice.
Simon
The picture below shows why I decided I needed to take a better look, it's the centre of the drivers side outrigger, I assume that this would be considered as bad
It looks I was conned when I bought the car earlier this year, now I am looking at things very carefully I can see that someone has already painted the visible surfaces, there are silver brush marks up inside the body where it goes up and over the outriggers.
So I decided to go for it today and make a start, I have both seats out and all the bolts out from the floor pan and seat belts, only one broken bolt, and that goes up / down so at least it won't stop the body coming off🙂
It looks I was conned when I bought the car earlier this year, now I am looking at things very carefully I can see that someone has already painted the visible surfaces, there are silver brush marks up inside the body where it goes up and over the outriggers.
So I decided to go for it today and make a start, I have both seats out and all the bolts out from the floor pan and seat belts, only one broken bolt, and that goes up / down so at least it won't stop the body coming off🙂
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