Discussion
Bit of advice please all..
Had a Chim 4.0 years ago, loved it, drove it as an everyday car for 2 years, even did the le mans trip...great stuff! Cost me epic amounts in servicing, tyres and depreciation when I let it go, but I was younf and didn't care!
I'm older now..but perhaps only a little wiser...I have such fond memories of the car thinking about getting one for fun.
However i am completely incapable of doing anything mechanical, I can clean a car and top up fluids but apart from that...
Is a chim something i can look at? If i do 3/4K miles a year, garage it, and avoid its use in the wet and cold what sort of costs should I look at? just want to go in eyes open...
cheers!
Had a Chim 4.0 years ago, loved it, drove it as an everyday car for 2 years, even did the le mans trip...great stuff! Cost me epic amounts in servicing, tyres and depreciation when I let it go, but I was younf and didn't care!
I'm older now..but perhaps only a little wiser...I have such fond memories of the car thinking about getting one for fun.
However i am completely incapable of doing anything mechanical, I can clean a car and top up fluids but apart from that...
Is a chim something i can look at? If i do 3/4K miles a year, garage it, and avoid its use in the wet and cold what sort of costs should I look at? just want to go in eyes open...
cheers!
Have a look at this! More photos available better showing the condition!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142395140040?ssPageName=...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142395140040?ssPageName=...
I'm no spanner God. I've had my TVR for 20 odd years and whilst I will do little bits I tend to use the experts. I have an annual budget for servicing, if I don't use it then I will schedule in some maintenance. For example, this year's MOT was 85 quid. So I am having the alarm system overhauled and a battery put in the boot. Next year may be carpets and some from.
I did no miles over the last 3 years, but now it is out and being used I would not be without it. There are faster, there are cars that are more flash, but there are few quite so special.
I did no miles over the last 3 years, but now it is out and being used I would not be without it. There are faster, there are cars that are more flash, but there are few quite so special.
It's never daft to buy a car that's already stopped depreciating, but you've really got to be honest with yourself about your expectations of a Chimaera and what you're prepared to put up with vs your appreciation for the old school and very analogue driving experience these cars deliver.
My best advice would be to buy the very best one you can afford where someone else has taken a hit on the bigger bills, top of the list is therefore the chassis, keep in mind a full body off chassis restoration could easily eat up half the purchase price of the car itself.
You also have to accept two unavoidable facts:
1. Its a TVR so at best you may find it throws up some little niggles from time to time
2. The youngest one you'll be looking at will still be a 14 year old car
You may assume a low mileage car will have more life in it, but be warned this just means it's been sat idle for long periods which is bad for many reasons, on the flip side if you go for something with higher mileage you've got to accept component wear is the inevitable consequence. With cars its always a 'damned if you use it and damned if you don't situation', personally I would always favor something that's been used regularly and properly maintained over a low mileage car that's seen little use in recent years.
Don't forget the the development engineers for TVR were the first owners and it sounds like you were one of those yourself, the first 20 - 30,000 miles and five years of ownership were when these cars got snagged and it was mostly done at the expense of the customer. After that these cars tend to go through a period of good reliability, but with extensive use will obviously reach a point where things start to wear out so the bills will begin to return. The trick here is to find a car in that middle sweet spot period and sell it before it starts throwing up bills again, such a Chimaera can be very cheap car to own.
Production numbers for the last few years (say 2001-2003) were extremely low so these improved cars are rare, they do come with some nice additions though so can be worth the extra you will inevitably have to pay for one. Most of the Chimaeras you'll be looking at will be on average 20 years old and any 20 year old car (high or low mileage) will have it's issues, even a Porsche
You may therefore assume a restored car is the way to go, and in many respects it is because it will at least amount to a long list of expensive works you won't have to face yourself, and you can be sure it'll work out significantly cheaper than buying a rough Chimaera and paying someone to restore it for you, the elephant in the room here is that not all restorations are created equal.
A zero hours restoration is one where every single nut, bolt and component on the car is either renewed or reconditioned and there are literally thousands on components that make up even a simple car like a Chimaera. Anything less than a zero hours restoration is just varying degrees of reconditioning, so while the car in the above link may well have benefited from a new chassis and other works it most certainly does not make it a zero hours restoration. Being 23 year old car you'd be naive not to expect it to throw up some further bills in the near future.
In summary you've got to accept you're looking to move from a string of modern reliable German cars to a hand built low volume British sports car that had a dubious reputation for reliability when it was new, this combined with the fact the Chimaeras you'll be looking at will all be roughly 20 years old and you need to go into this with some realism. I'm not trying to put you off ,but these are the facts and if you're not handy with a spanner as you say, then you better make close friends with your local TVR specialist if you don't want the experience to become a frustrating one.
Saying all that if you buy the right car with your eyes wide open to the potential pitfalls, you then have it maintained properly by a good TVR specialist like Str8Six who are probably only 20 miles from you.... then your Chimaera experience could prove to be a truly excellent one.
Good luck with your search, just remember it's a 20 year old TVR you're looking at so keep these words in mind....
Caveat emptor
My best advice would be to buy the very best one you can afford where someone else has taken a hit on the bigger bills, top of the list is therefore the chassis, keep in mind a full body off chassis restoration could easily eat up half the purchase price of the car itself.
You also have to accept two unavoidable facts:
1. Its a TVR so at best you may find it throws up some little niggles from time to time
2. The youngest one you'll be looking at will still be a 14 year old car
You may assume a low mileage car will have more life in it, but be warned this just means it's been sat idle for long periods which is bad for many reasons, on the flip side if you go for something with higher mileage you've got to accept component wear is the inevitable consequence. With cars its always a 'damned if you use it and damned if you don't situation', personally I would always favor something that's been used regularly and properly maintained over a low mileage car that's seen little use in recent years.
Don't forget the the development engineers for TVR were the first owners and it sounds like you were one of those yourself, the first 20 - 30,000 miles and five years of ownership were when these cars got snagged and it was mostly done at the expense of the customer. After that these cars tend to go through a period of good reliability, but with extensive use will obviously reach a point where things start to wear out so the bills will begin to return. The trick here is to find a car in that middle sweet spot period and sell it before it starts throwing up bills again, such a Chimaera can be very cheap car to own.
Production numbers for the last few years (say 2001-2003) were extremely low so these improved cars are rare, they do come with some nice additions though so can be worth the extra you will inevitably have to pay for one. Most of the Chimaeras you'll be looking at will be on average 20 years old and any 20 year old car (high or low mileage) will have it's issues, even a Porsche
You may therefore assume a restored car is the way to go, and in many respects it is because it will at least amount to a long list of expensive works you won't have to face yourself, and you can be sure it'll work out significantly cheaper than buying a rough Chimaera and paying someone to restore it for you, the elephant in the room here is that not all restorations are created equal.
A zero hours restoration is one where every single nut, bolt and component on the car is either renewed or reconditioned and there are literally thousands on components that make up even a simple car like a Chimaera. Anything less than a zero hours restoration is just varying degrees of reconditioning, so while the car in the above link may well have benefited from a new chassis and other works it most certainly does not make it a zero hours restoration. Being 23 year old car you'd be naive not to expect it to throw up some further bills in the near future.
In summary you've got to accept you're looking to move from a string of modern reliable German cars to a hand built low volume British sports car that had a dubious reputation for reliability when it was new, this combined with the fact the Chimaeras you'll be looking at will all be roughly 20 years old and you need to go into this with some realism. I'm not trying to put you off ,but these are the facts and if you're not handy with a spanner as you say, then you better make close friends with your local TVR specialist if you don't want the experience to become a frustrating one.
Saying all that if you buy the right car with your eyes wide open to the potential pitfalls, you then have it maintained properly by a good TVR specialist like Str8Six who are probably only 20 miles from you.... then your Chimaera experience could prove to be a truly excellent one.
Good luck with your search, just remember it's a 20 year old TVR you're looking at so keep these words in mind....
Caveat emptor
CON, DI, TION! Every car is individual, how has it been looked after? what does previous owner know? (or not) Are they mechanically minded? Are they mechanically sympathetic? An engine rebuild or Chassis refurb' mean nothing if they are crap. Good choice and Good luck. 
I'm of a very similar mindset and mechanical ability mate.
I finally took the TVR plunge 3 weeks ago and am loving it, no regrets!
I'd steer you towards www.tonygilbertcars.co.uk, he's got a fab selection of Chips, Griffs and Tuscans and is a thoroughly decent bloke who I felt comfortable buying from.
He's sold most of his cars more than once which gives you confidence in his integrity and quality of product.
Happy hunting!
Jasp.
I finally took the TVR plunge 3 weeks ago and am loving it, no regrets!
I'd steer you towards www.tonygilbertcars.co.uk, he's got a fab selection of Chips, Griffs and Tuscans and is a thoroughly decent bloke who I felt comfortable buying from.
He's sold most of his cars more than once which gives you confidence in his integrity and quality of product.
Happy hunting!
Jasp.
Same for me - I mostly rely on the specialists for servicing and repairs.
My experience is that the annual service always costs more than expected - something extra inevitably needs fixing - but IMO better to get things done as and when they're found (funds permitting) given that most owners tend to drive the car enthusiasticly (shall we say).
But when you consider that if you buy a good one now the value is likely to increase and compensate for servicing and repair costs, then it's effectively cheap motoring (a bit of man maths creeping in here).
What I find really surprising is how the Chim still remains such good value when compared with the Griff. Very odd as as we all know the Chim is the better looking car :-)
My experience is that the annual service always costs more than expected - something extra inevitably needs fixing - but IMO better to get things done as and when they're found (funds permitting) given that most owners tend to drive the car enthusiasticly (shall we say).
But when you consider that if you buy a good one now the value is likely to increase and compensate for servicing and repair costs, then it's effectively cheap motoring (a bit of man maths creeping in here).
What I find really surprising is how the Chim still remains such good value when compared with the Griff. Very odd as as we all know the Chim is the better looking car :-)
JJREED said:
Have a look at this! More photos available better showing the condition!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142395140040?ssPageName=...
this advert is confusing. The advert says the car has had a full body off refurb, and since then it has only been driven 10k miles, with no mention of track days? But in the last 12 months it has required new ARB mounts, steering arms and ball joints. Surely these parts would have been replaced whilst the chassis was getting fully refurbished, you would not put the old ones back on!!!!! IMHO.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142395140040?ssPageName=...
Yep good points. It wandered a bit when I got it, the suspension geometry was clearly out and the track rod ends were knackered. Why go to the expense of spending 120 quid on a wheel alignment and track rod ends when you can do all the joints and the wheel alignment for 200 quid (or so), guarantee a perfect condition/result and not need to touch it again. It's just the way I think, sorry I'm in the engineering industry and I think if it's worth doing then it's worth doing right. So I do. Same with the gearbox rebuild. To rebuild the gearbox without changing everything that interacts with the box, the clutch, the master and slaves, the clevis pins etc. is a false economy, you're going to end up doing it soon anyway and lets face it we all like tinkering. So I did all that at the same time. No reason other than It means you can enjoy the car for the next few summers with no hassles. I agree with the posts above though if you buy a 23 year old car and expect no niggles then that's not a realistic expectation. This is true irrespective of where you buy the car from, dealer or private.
Just checked actually it's done 13000 miles since the chassis was replaced. My mistake it was 10k when I bought it. Any just to clarify on the life of the suspension joint, I have a bill from 1996 when the car was three years old and had covered 6500 miles. This seems a little overzealous to me but clearly they don't have a very long life.
JJREED said:
Just checked actually it's done 13000 miles since the chassis was replaced. My mistake it was 10k when I bought it. Any just to clarify on the life of the suspension joint, I have a bill from 1996 when the car was three years old and had covered 6500 miles. This seems a little overzealous to me but clearly they don't have a very long life.
My Apologies , I didn't know it was your car you were advertising, you know your car better than anyone else.I'm not a TVR owner. But Chim are simple simple simple. Meaning a good old school local mechanic should be able to do almost all things on them.
Engines are the same as those used in Land Rovers and Range Rovers. Even the gearbox on early Chims is the same. While latter ones are Ford iirc.
Suspension and brakes are all simple. Hardly any electronics.
I wouldn't say you shouldn't use specialist. But if it's just normal work you will be massively overpaying for everything. Anywhere from 2 to 5 times more most likely.
Engines are the same as those used in Land Rovers and Range Rovers. Even the gearbox on early Chims is the same. While latter ones are Ford iirc.
Suspension and brakes are all simple. Hardly any electronics.
I wouldn't say you shouldn't use specialist. But if it's just normal work you will be massively overpaying for everything. Anywhere from 2 to 5 times more most likely.
Couldn't agree more. Well said. Specialists for wheel alignment only (Motorsport or at least someone with laser alignment kit). Everything else can be done by yourself, your local mechanic, or a car electronics specialist. At worst you will get friendly with a landrover specialist. Frankly speaking it's really a parts bin based kit car with rover SD1/sierra powertrain, and nothing else really goes wrong. Anyone who does motorsport, classic, westfield kit car type maintenance will be more than up to the job. It's far removed from a tuscan or anything with an AJP engine.
Sorry if that grates with anyone but compared to e.g. 996 vintage porsche carrera, Maserati 3200, anything Japanese or anything else 'foreign' then the Chim really resembles a kit type car engineering standards, and is basic, basic, basic. Just my opinion (and I've had a lot of the aforementioned)
A new or refurbished chassis would be a bonus in my eyes, years of worry free motoring. Id expect to see new fuel lines etc if this had been done too.
They are easy to maintain, just a little more awkward and the use of a ramp is a big bonus if you have one.
Im not sure why people spend thousands on maintenance each year as the basic things such as oil, filters etc are very reasonable if you stay clear of the Tvr parts specialists.
Electrics can be a little fragile and let you down, if your not hands on id suggest a car that has had the original alarm system replaced or removed.
They are easy to maintain, just a little more awkward and the use of a ramp is a big bonus if you have one.
Im not sure why people spend thousands on maintenance each year as the basic things such as oil, filters etc are very reasonable if you stay clear of the Tvr parts specialists.
Electrics can be a little fragile and let you down, if your not hands on id suggest a car that has had the original alarm system replaced or removed.
I gave up doing my own spannering a long time ago and wasn't very good at it anyway.
The service charges are published by most specialists.
A TVR ALREADY in good condition shouldn't need anything more than a yearly service.
Sure, they take the Mick a bit for what is basically an old Rover but they can save you money by picking up on other stuff that's going west.
One day you may need chassis work or a new hood.
These are still dirt cheap fixes compared to what can go wrong with other performance machinery/classics.
The service charges are published by most specialists.
A TVR ALREADY in good condition shouldn't need anything more than a yearly service.
Sure, they take the Mick a bit for what is basically an old Rover but they can save you money by picking up on other stuff that's going west.
One day you may need chassis work or a new hood.
These are still dirt cheap fixes compared to what can go wrong with other performance machinery/classics.
swisstoni said:
I gave up doing my own spannering a long time ago and wasn't very good at it anyway.
The service charges are published by most specialists.
A TVR ALREADY in good condition shouldn't need anything more than a yearly service.
Sure, they take the Mick a bit for what is basically an old Rover but they can save you money by picking up on other stuff that's going west.
One day you may need chassis work or a new hood.
These are still dirt cheap fixes compared to what can go wrong with other performance machinery/classics.
I totally agree with you Tony, the garage l use to service my vehicle also does a full once over of all the service parts that quite recently have been failing on any 15 year plus TVR, it's so much easier to check these areas of concern when the car is up on a lift, which most of us back home have not got, so it means scratching around on your hands and knees, messing with axle stands and trolley jack's, and at my age, it's just not worth itThe service charges are published by most specialists.
A TVR ALREADY in good condition shouldn't need anything more than a yearly service.
Sure, they take the Mick a bit for what is basically an old Rover but they can save you money by picking up on other stuff that's going west.
One day you may need chassis work or a new hood.
These are still dirt cheap fixes compared to what can go wrong with other performance machinery/classics.
I have full respect for the guys who do all the 12,000 service checks, but if you haven't got access to a decent lifting device it's a nause to keep jacking the car up safety IMHO.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
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