Wide band lambda sensors
Discussion
Just a quickie for those into this sort of thing
Most people go for one of these.
I’m thinking if you ran two in the original positions will they give more accurate info per bank. Whenever I’ve seen a wide band lambda probe fitted its usually in the centre of the Y piece so collating info from all 8 pistons.
Surely you’d still want to know how each bank is running or am I missing something?
I’m not sure even if my Ecu supports two wide band lambdas mind!
Just thinking aloud.
Thoughts please
Most people go for one of these.
I’m thinking if you ran two in the original positions will they give more accurate info per bank. Whenever I’ve seen a wide band lambda probe fitted its usually in the centre of the Y piece so collating info from all 8 pistons.
Surely you’d still want to know how each bank is running or am I missing something?
I’m not sure even if my Ecu supports two wide band lambdas mind!
Just thinking aloud.
Thoughts please
Hopefully not on a healthy engine but knowing what the oxygen readings are from each manifold surely helps manage the engine better or does it?
More Ecu info required, hmm.
I should read up,,,,,, again !
If say you have a wetting plug or low compression on one piston and you only have one Lambda probe won’t the results be masked somewhat by the other 7 good running pistons.
Two lambdas as in the original design seems like a good idea to me so why only use one on after market Ecu systems.
Is it the cost of the wide band lambda!
As these readings are used to help trim fuelling etc
Isn’t it better to keep two.
I’m probably reading to much into how much the lambda does and one wide band is sufficient to detect anything nasty.
More Ecu info required, hmm.
I should read up,,,,,, again !
If say you have a wetting plug or low compression on one piston and you only have one Lambda probe won’t the results be masked somewhat by the other 7 good running pistons.
Two lambdas as in the original design seems like a good idea to me so why only use one on after market Ecu systems.
Is it the cost of the wide band lambda!
As these readings are used to help trim fuelling etc
Isn’t it better to keep two.
I’m probably reading to much into how much the lambda does and one wide band is sufficient to detect anything nasty.
The 14CUX bank fires the injectors so it can control fuelling differently from one bank to the other hence the 2 Lambdas..
If your ECU can do this then 2 would be a good idea. If your ECU fuels sequentially then 2 would be a waste of time as the ECU will not see fuelling as a bank.
Steve
If your ECU can do this then 2 would be a good idea. If your ECU fuels sequentially then 2 would be a waste of time as the ECU will not see fuelling as a bank.
Steve
Steve_D said:
The 14CUX bank fires the injectors so it can control fuelling differently from one bank to the other hence the 2 Lambdas..
If your ECU can do this then 2 would be a good idea. If your ECU fuels sequentially then 2 would be a waste of time as the ECU will not see fuelling as a bank.
Steve
Bank fired Steve although it does support sequential If your ECU can do this then 2 would be a good idea. If your ECU fuels sequentially then 2 would be a waste of time as the ECU will not see fuelling as a bank.
Steve
I’ve just found a great company who offer the Mbe and it’s variants
SBD Motorsport
Mbe 9a8
Cam control such as Vtec variable valve timing
Fan out put control after ign off ( needs elec water pump)
7 launch control maps
Traction control
Idle control making changes to idle speed based on engine temp amongst other things
Sequential fuelling too
To name but only a few of its options and abilities
Easymap6 software and diagnostics stuff all on their site.
Oh my Lord I’ve got the dogs of an Ecu.
I don’t think you need more than one lambda as what Simon said, if one sides f
ked the other can’t be far behind! Edited by Classic Chim on Saturday 16th December 17:56
Steve_D said:
Sadly not had much success with SBD.
Not very helpful on the phone and charge for any info you want.
Steve
Hmmm, my wordings slightly mis leading, maybe I should have said informative website as I’ve not had any contact with the company. Not very helpful on the phone and charge for any info you want.
Steve
It does say contact Powers for anything Tvr related!
It’s just there’s not much info on Mbe out there at all so at least this puts pictures to the product.
I’ll have to check but assume Jason uses or is aware of Easymap 6
The tuning hardware looks like the same one I’ve seen Jason at Powers use
And yes I can see if you want tech support from these guys you’ll have to pay.
They also sell a dash readout screen for racecar applications with Rev limit lights and even a bleeper for helmet to remind you to change gear.
I’m pretty sure mine just uses the two low band lambdas and is under using the tech within the Ecu that a wide band lambda could utilise.
Exciting times ahead.
I’m just using SBD for info really and the site has been good for that.
Edited by Classic Chim on Saturday 16th December 17:01
Lol,
Yes I see it can run more than one crank sensor using the second one to check cam timing.
180d I think my head can get it
I’ve pretty much read every bit of the SBD Motorsport site and every video I can find and written what amounts to another darn shopping list !
USB to CAN interface and lead,,,
Mapping kit , , better leave that out! !
Easymap software which is free to download but I’ll just speak with Dom and Jason about that.
The Mbe 9 MD Dash mounted Display screen as fitted to race cars,,, it’s the business with tonnes of pages and screens you can set up with allsorts of warnings, like the temp going blue if too cold, Afr or oil temp/ pressure etc if you have the sensors fitted. programmable dash leds as you like or simply just your revs or gear selected and only info coming up if out of parimeters, all race driver inspired so touch screen and works with gloves on apparently
Small too, 95x83 mm I think it is, fit inside my steering wheel size of a small tom tom.
Launch control sounds interesting, a bit F1, you set revs and various parimeters and dump,the clutch, see how it goes and re set upto 7 times for various scenarios that you can recall at any time.
Drag strip.
Lots of things you can do, it’s all racecar inspired so I’m happy with that.
And yes I see these MBE are used on allsorts of 4 pot and exotic V8 etc alike.
Barometric pressure too, good for Turbos at altitude I’d say.
I think the 9a8 in standard form doesn’t support wide band?!? Can’t find where I read that now but that’s a possibility.
Having read about the various lambda types I’m happy enough with the Titania ones and as I’m almost always under 18% throttle I’m virtually always running closed loop permanently which is good.
Closed look for those that haven’t read up,,, like me for five years? Is simply
Using these Lambda or oxygen sensors you can keep to the optimal air fuel ratio at around 14.7:1
It’s essentually just emissions control and if the lambda senses to much oxygen in the exhaust gases ( for instance) it adds fuel as it must be running lean etc.
Running closed loop and I can do that upto about 4500 revs on light throttle settings which with 340 ft of torque is all the time really just means it’s using lambda signals to help trim fuelling even at higher revs. It’s very efficient and good on fuel.
Lambda have no effect on timing in themselves and can only effect the fuelling side of the engine control.
This so called perfect Afr 14.7:1 which translates to
14.7 kg of air to 1 kg of fuel
This chemically correct air fuel ratio is a stiochiometric ratio, a sort of perfect combination is how I read that
So that’s what closed loop is working to do via your lambda sensors.
Crickey I think I’ve got it
It can be remotely mapped too.
Yes I see it can run more than one crank sensor using the second one to check cam timing.
180d I think my head can get it
I’ve pretty much read every bit of the SBD Motorsport site and every video I can find and written what amounts to another darn shopping list !
USB to CAN interface and lead,,,
Mapping kit , , better leave that out! !
Easymap software which is free to download but I’ll just speak with Dom and Jason about that.
The Mbe 9 MD Dash mounted Display screen as fitted to race cars,,, it’s the business with tonnes of pages and screens you can set up with allsorts of warnings, like the temp going blue if too cold, Afr or oil temp/ pressure etc if you have the sensors fitted. programmable dash leds as you like or simply just your revs or gear selected and only info coming up if out of parimeters, all race driver inspired so touch screen and works with gloves on apparently
Small too, 95x83 mm I think it is, fit inside my steering wheel
size of a small tom tom. Launch control sounds interesting, a bit F1, you set revs and various parimeters and dump,the clutch, see how it goes and re set upto 7 times for various scenarios that you can recall at any time.
Drag strip.
Lots of things you can do, it’s all racecar inspired so I’m happy with that.
And yes I see these MBE are used on allsorts of 4 pot and exotic V8 etc alike.
Barometric pressure too, good for Turbos at altitude I’d say.
I think the 9a8 in standard form doesn’t support wide band?!? Can’t find where I read that now but that’s a possibility.
Having read about the various lambda types I’m happy enough with the Titania ones and as I’m almost always under 18% throttle I’m virtually always running closed loop permanently which is good.
Closed look for those that haven’t read up,,, like me for five years? Is simply
Using these Lambda or oxygen sensors you can keep to the optimal air fuel ratio at around 14.7:1
It’s essentually just emissions control and if the lambda senses to much oxygen in the exhaust gases ( for instance) it adds fuel as it must be running lean etc.
Running closed loop and I can do that upto about 4500 revs on light throttle settings which with 340 ft of torque is all the time really just means it’s using lambda signals to help trim fuelling even at higher revs. It’s very efficient and good on fuel.
Lambda have no effect on timing in themselves and can only effect the fuelling side of the engine control.
This so called perfect Afr 14.7:1 which translates to
14.7 kg of air to 1 kg of fuel
This chemically correct air fuel ratio is a stiochiometric ratio, a sort of perfect combination is how I read that
So that’s what closed loop is working to do via your lambda sensors.
Crickey I think I’ve got it
It can be remotely mapped too.
Edited by Classic Chim on Saturday 16th December 23:44
Steve_D said:
Had a car in running 2 MBE9A8s. V12 with an ECU for each bank but running only one crank sensor. One of the ECUs was running a 180 degree offset.
My 68 year old brain was having a struggle with that but finally found one of the ECUs had a dead coil driver.
Steve
Am I right in thinking the Ecu amplifies the coil signal on MBE My 68 year old brain was having a struggle with that but finally found one of the ECUs had a dead coil driver.
Steve
The coil driver, is that on the coil pack or within the ECU ?
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