MBE Ignition system
Discussion
citizen smith said:
Hi Folks,
Can you tell me if fitting an MBE Ignition system, gives any performance advantage over a standard well maintained 14cux system. Or is it a case of improved reliability and economy. Any feedback would be useful.
Rather than focus on Mbe alone just look at any after market Ecu for the answers to that one. Can you tell me if fitting an MBE Ignition system, gives any performance advantage over a standard well maintained 14cux system. Or is it a case of improved reliability and economy. Any feedback would be useful.
In a word YES
I have Mbe so I’m bound to say this you’d think but I also owned my car for possibly 5 years running on a usually good CUX so have a good barometer.
Night and day
Not really as it’s a very subtle thing but actually it is, by miles a better system in its simplicity and design.
I’ve had my MBE almost 3 years and absolutely been used daily as much as possible and it’s faultless, effortless and reliable.
It was mapped on installation and never been mapped since. Jason’s maps are something else. He has massive data and experience.
Overall economy is much better as it is on longer runs.
The main difference you’ll notice on a daily basis is how it runs with impunity and never ever misses a beat and takes very little if any throttle to pull off.
The advanced ignition gives free power. mid range etc. You can keep an eye on things in future just by hookimh up a pc and viewing various screens etc.
If your into mapping then other alternatives have more readily avail info but after Jasons work on my car it’s never been needed.
28 th fastest on the drag strip leaderboard so it must have helped.
My engine seems far happier and doesn’t get nearly as hot unless in traffic for ages.
Wiring loom is very impressive as I’ve subjected mine to a huge water main burst pipe in the dark on a country road at 50 mph, hit water a good 8 inches deep and the car was lost in the spray, plumes of steam from Bonet vents.,,, just kept going which was unbelievable for any vehicle sitting so low in the water.
Great thing but very expensive if you then come to sell.
I’ve even jet washed the engine and fired up with no drama. Not recommended and I know where not to hold a jet of water but still( water tight)
I think MBE is ok but the installation is almost as important for future reliability. They know the job at Powers and for the cost I should think so.
Hello Alun,
Many thanks for the informative feedback which is very useful. I will be going with Powers Package, since knowledge is key.
The Chimaera is standard bar ACT trumpets, free flow inlet pipes and a K&N, boring to some tuners it's what I purchased the car with.
It is always good to have feedback, from the folk that have actually got the system fitted.
Cheers.
Many thanks for the informative feedback which is very useful. I will be going with Powers Package, since knowledge is key.
The Chimaera is standard bar ACT trumpets, free flow inlet pipes and a K&N, boring to some tuners it's what I purchased the car with.
It is always good to have feedback, from the folk that have actually got the system fitted.
Cheers.
Make sure it’s the latest version so you can at a later date have a steering wheel / dash mounted little screen 100 mm+ 85 mm racer stylie that you can check a tonne of stuff, calibrate it to flash temps or oil pressure lights up if in the danger zones, Rev counter or a mix so you can see what ever you like. It’s for race drivers so easy to use, touch screen etc that can be used with gloves on.
This allows you to have constant Ecu info fed to you and the screen is very discreet.
If your not interested in all that it’s still supported well into the future so the one to get.
Without checking 9a8 a I think?
The a at the end being extra outputs and connections to ecu and stuff. Very useful
If you look at my power graph when Mbe was fitted and mapped it’s the steady AFR readings that is one of the reasons I went for it.
This allows you to have constant Ecu info fed to you and the screen is very discreet.
If your not interested in all that it’s still supported well into the future so the one to get.
Without checking 9a8 a I think?
The a at the end being extra outputs and connections to ecu and stuff. Very useful
If you look at my power graph when Mbe was fitted and mapped it’s the steady AFR readings that is one of the reasons I went for it.
I have an Emerald, not an MBE.
Cannot really compare Emerald and CUX, as I changed engines at the same time.
But the engine is really smooth with the addition of coil packs and ignition management - the CUX only controls the fuelling, as I am sure you know.
Car pulls smoothly, idles smoothly and everyone says it sounds smooth too.
I would expect a little more BHP, due to better engine management, but I don't expect it to be life changing.
Your MBE won't need an AFM, so you have that to sell on, but if it is set up like mine it will need a wide band lambda and will I presume give you an AFR gauge to monitor what is happening.
The Emerald allows one to have up to three different maps for different purposes, controlled by a rotary switch on the steering column. Important to me as i am running a turbo, so can increase and decrease the boost at will and have wildly different power outputs.
Cannot really compare Emerald and CUX, as I changed engines at the same time.
But the engine is really smooth with the addition of coil packs and ignition management - the CUX only controls the fuelling, as I am sure you know.
Car pulls smoothly, idles smoothly and everyone says it sounds smooth too.
I would expect a little more BHP, due to better engine management, but I don't expect it to be life changing.
Your MBE won't need an AFM, so you have that to sell on, but if it is set up like mine it will need a wide band lambda and will I presume give you an AFR gauge to monitor what is happening.
The Emerald allows one to have up to three different maps for different purposes, controlled by a rotary switch on the steering column. Important to me as i am running a turbo, so can increase and decrease the boost at will and have wildly different power outputs.
citizen smith said:
I must say that's very impressive, as you say a very smooth power curve. Certainly advanced technology. Cant wait to get it fitted.
This industry moves at a pace and what the Tvr specialists are now offering with these Ecu changes are the exact same thing that tuners allover the world are using on thousands of vehicles.Ecu name might change but the software and things you can effect are broadly similar with all of them.
If you watch videos of chaps mapping cars it’s the same info you’ll find on the easymap screens Jason at Powers uses.
It’s really very simple in essence. Your trying to map every throttle setting imaginable to the perfect AFR and Volumanic Efficiency at all times. Keep that and timing settings where they need to be to stay safe and your on your way.
It’s the experience and years of logged files your looking for in a mapper so as Powers do RV8 engines and for a long time the knowledge base for what these engines can except is vast.
Everything you see from a tuning point of view has been done at Powers in the bloody 90’s,,,, heads and porting etc let alone now.
They have tried and failed to make them run faster and better on CUX as any engineer can see the timing is not upt the job and holds you back.
One thing I was adamant about. If I spend this kind of money I don’t expect it to need re mapping or fettling to much. Leave the car with them and let them take the time to get it right as going back and forth for map tweaks is a pain and would have annoyed me,,, time is money and all that.
I took mine from Dom’s garage to South of France over night. You gets what ya pay for.
I did take it back once and Dom drove while Jason tweaked the lower speed mapping.
Ecu learns from there and it’s been fantastic since.
It’s very important to note at this point.
I replaced spark plugs for Iridium tipped ones about 18 months into having MBE and that has made cold starts and general running even better.
I mentioned these plugs to a biking expert who said cold starts are better on bikes with these plugs, which correlates.
The combination of Mbe and these plugs is a very impressive one. Like a modern engine.
To clarify
My engine starts the same on any plug,, instantly but the Iridium don’t sound a bit fouled up when first running, just those first few seconds the car would be slightly groggy on the old plugs. That’s pretty much gone. Just runs sweet from the first fire.
It’s very impressive.
They exhibit an entirely different colour to the 7’s which were still black ish when removed, now they are ashen grey which is close to being perfect apparently, looks to hot and lean to me but modern engines also run similar colouring as I don’t trust no bugger and asked a number of very experienced mechanics since. All agree the Iridium plug colour I have is excellent. One couldn’t believe it wasn’t running lean because of the emissions test.
That also confirms it’s almost zero emissions out my exhaust. I’ve often said since Mbe the car rarely if ever stinks of fuel unless a cold start at night.
The times CUX equipped Tvr rumble past me and fill the air with thick fuel and semi burnt fuel at that just makes me laugh. They run like s
te most of em and the owner is in blissful ignorance. Lean burn. Ask about the speed 6 injectors used-as that’s what I have and my fuelling seems sublime.
Ultimately peak power figures are pointless and b
ks if the rest of it is no good. The smooth delivery of the power on my graph is clear, as much or more than most 500’s actually make standard and mine runs on Landrover thin trumpets with no induction mods at all other than AFR removal and smooth bore ACT intake pipe which I think works well. Sounds more throaty than it used too 
Goodluck and please come back and tell us what you think of it.
Edited by Classic Chim on Monday 14th May 07:53
I’m how entertaining myself and hopefully a great guy who takes the dig with fun as it’s just that and not really true,,, BUT
it’s taken a 5.0 owner into porting his already ported 5.0 inlet and all sorts of mods to catch me on a drag strip..... being honest his car is faster but my time beats his and that’s all that matters,,, when he does and he will beat my time I’ll never hear the end of it.
Not that this has any relevance as it was on a different day on a different strip but for reference I watched the Cerb boys drag racing and the fastest with a bloody great re built AJP was only 12.5... I say only as that’s still really very fast as they just can’t hook it up like we can.
My 12.6003 so almost into the 5’s says a lot about the Chims ability and how fast they are over short distances.
I don’t believe a standard Chim will get much under 14 seconds to be honest. Over such a short distance that’s a huge difference in power really.
Without doing any other mods the MBE has released torque where its useable and far easier to control with finite degrees with your right foot.
More like a racing car, it’s mapping is very important to lap times and controlability.
It’s often the mapping on a bike why a rider is fast or not.
It’s the same for us, I’m much more confident in how much power is being delivered and I can control the engine movements instantly. For that it's also world class really.
Mbe has a deep racing history. You won’t survive in that environment where winning is everything unless it works and does the job.
Simples
it’s taken a 5.0 owner into porting his already ported 5.0 inlet and all sorts of mods to catch me on a drag strip..... being honest his car is faster but my time beats his and that’s all that matters,,, when he does and he will beat my time I’ll never hear the end of it.
Not that this has any relevance as it was on a different day on a different strip but for reference I watched the Cerb boys drag racing and the fastest with a bloody great re built AJP was only 12.5... I say only as that’s still really very fast as they just can’t hook it up like we can.
My 12.6003 so almost into the 5’s says a lot about the Chims ability and how fast they are over short distances.
I don’t believe a standard Chim will get much under 14 seconds to be honest. Over such a short distance that’s a huge difference in power really.
Without doing any other mods the MBE has released torque where its useable and far easier to control with finite degrees with your right foot.
More like a racing car, it’s mapping is very important to lap times and controlability.
It’s often the mapping on a bike why a rider is fast or not.
It’s the same for us, I’m much more confident in how much power is being delivered and I can control the engine movements instantly. For that it's also world class really.
Mbe has a deep racing history. You won’t survive in that environment where winning is everything unless it works and does the job.
Simples
I suck myself into the power conversation but if you want the truth I drive at granny speeds on the roads and this is where I find the system even more impressive.
I can go for miles at low revs in high gears and have barely touched the throttle at all, just bumble about in this surreal car. Better engine manners than I could ever expect and no real shunt to below 1000 revs. I’ve been in 2nd and 3rd gears around roundabouts a 1000 times by now below this point and just smoothly and gently apply the throttle and it just pulls you back upto speed. Less wear on clutch and road train but then I have a new clutch and Diff. It all adds up,,,, as does the cost
The difference to drive a Tvr like this is quite big as it’s very easy/ lazy and just glorious really. What you dreamed of,,, or I did
I can go for miles at low revs in high gears and have barely touched the throttle at all, just bumble about in this surreal car. Better engine manners than I could ever expect and no real shunt to below 1000 revs. I’ve been in 2nd and 3rd gears around roundabouts a 1000 times by now below this point and just smoothly and gently apply the throttle and it just pulls you back upto speed. Less wear on clutch and road train but then I have a new clutch and Diff. It all adds up,,,, as does the cost
The difference to drive a Tvr like this is quite big as it’s very easy/ lazy and just glorious really. What you dreamed of,,, or I did
Hi Alun,
I was running the the NGK B7ECS (fitted at every annual service by one specialist - no names), but found that the plugs sooted up quite badly, hence I changed the plugs to NGK BP6ES and these run clean. But I will take on board what you say about Iridium plugs and give them a go, after all the cleaner the plug runs - the more efficient the engine is.
I totally agree about peak BHP, it means nothing without plenty of Torque. You only have to look at a Honda S2000, plenty of BHP but miniscule Torque. So unless your screaming the engine, not much happens below 5000 rpm.
My daily driver is a MK4 Golf GT TDI 150, not high in BHP, but bags of torque which makes it an ideal car for mid-range punch, which is just where you need it in normal daily driving..
I was running the the NGK B7ECS (fitted at every annual service by one specialist - no names), but found that the plugs sooted up quite badly, hence I changed the plugs to NGK BP6ES and these run clean. But I will take on board what you say about Iridium plugs and give them a go, after all the cleaner the plug runs - the more efficient the engine is.
I totally agree about peak BHP, it means nothing without plenty of Torque. You only have to look at a Honda S2000, plenty of BHP but miniscule Torque. So unless your screaming the engine, not much happens below 5000 rpm.
My daily driver is a MK4 Golf GT TDI 150, not high in BHP, but bags of torque which makes it an ideal car for mid-range punch, which is just where you need it in normal daily driving..
I’m on a roll, people say you don’t save money as the intitial cost is so hi and with the average TVR recorded mileage very true but I’m close to 20,000 miles over the last 3 years with MBE
so at 5000 mile intervals how many dizzy caps/ rotors ign Amps Plug sets would that have cost. Let alone finding decent replacements. Plug leads everything gets much hotter and unreliable.
My engine basic service now consists of an oil/filter and I’ll replace the plugs at around 15/20,000 miles so very cost effective.
I’ve forgotton what hot start or any of the related problems are all about unless I read up on here.
Make sure you discuss the immobiliser relay and replacement incl Battery Cables etc so that also becomes a thing of the past. If your alarm otherwise works ok you should find by reading up the Meta can and has lasted a long time on many veicles. It’s not known to be unreliable as such.
If Ben can get a Tvr around the world, I’d like to think if I’d known and got someone to pay for it my cars electronics would have been rightnrhete with him.
I’d trust my car to go anywhere at any time.
That’s something I wouldn’t have said with any real belief before this work was done no matter how good my car and CUX was before it.
I havnt even got to stepper motors yet ,,,,,,,,,
poxy things 
so at 5000 mile intervals how many dizzy caps/ rotors ign Amps Plug sets would that have cost. Let alone finding decent replacements. Plug leads everything gets much hotter and unreliable.
My engine basic service now consists of an oil/filter and I’ll replace the plugs at around 15/20,000 miles so very cost effective.
I’ve forgotton what hot start or any of the related problems are all about unless I read up on here.
Make sure you discuss the immobiliser relay and replacement incl Battery Cables etc so that also becomes a thing of the past. If your alarm otherwise works ok you should find by reading up the Meta can and has lasted a long time on many veicles. It’s not known to be unreliable as such.
If Ben can get a Tvr around the world, I’d like to think if I’d known and got someone to pay for it
my cars electronics would have been rightnrhete with him. I’d trust my car to go anywhere at any time.
That’s something I wouldn’t have said with any real belief before this work was done no matter how good my car and CUX was before it.
I havnt even got to stepper motors yet ,,,,,,,,,
poxy things citizen smith said:
Hi Alun,
I was running the the NGK B7ECS (fitted at every annual service by one specialist - no names), but found that the plugs sooted up quite badly, hence I changed the plugs to NGK BP6ES and these run clean. But I will take on board what you say about Iridium plugs and give them a go, after all the cleaner the plug runs - the more efficient the engine is.
I totally agree about peak BHP, it means nothing without plenty of Torque. You only have to look at a Honda S2000, plenty of BHP but miniscule Torque. So unless your screaming the engine, not much happens below 5000 rpm.
My daily driver is a MK4 Golf GT TDI 150, not high in BHP, but bags of torque which makes it an ideal car for mid-range punch, which is just where you need it in normal daily driving..
That’s good you know about the plugs. Leave them as yours might be just as good as the 6 must have quite a lot to do with it, even when it was( - ) conditions my car warms to useable temps in seconds. I was running the the NGK B7ECS (fitted at every annual service by one specialist - no names), but found that the plugs sooted up quite badly, hence I changed the plugs to NGK BP6ES and these run clean. But I will take on board what you say about Iridium plugs and give them a go, after all the cleaner the plug runs - the more efficient the engine is.
I totally agree about peak BHP, it means nothing without plenty of Torque. You only have to look at a Honda S2000, plenty of BHP but miniscule Torque. So unless your screaming the engine, not much happens below 5000 rpm.
My daily driver is a MK4 Golf GT TDI 150, not high in BHP, but bags of torque which makes it an ideal car for mid-range punch, which is just where you need it in normal daily driving..
People probably think I drive the nuts out of the car as I waffle on about drag times.
I’ve felt the full hp of my engine 4 or 5 times since as on the road I find it all a bit uncouth now. Better to change slightly earlier like a gentleman and still out drag the bugger,, not that I do that.
Once you’ve got it you don’t need to show off, I prefer it’s gentler side anyway now. It’s a fantastic tourer with race car power but more importantly drives with decorum itself without me using the clutch half as much. My left foot used to ache, don’t even think about that now.
With my fumbling in the dark and learning as I went.
If you want a really useable Tvr you need to check
Engine road train/clutch and operation,
Diff being the first place to look.
If some divvy has done donuts or thinks wheel spins impress people in the past there’s a good chance your diff will be worn, made all the worse if the car had a small shunt from new that I an confirm will be masked by a new or unworn Diff. Some Tvr Diffs are ruined by 30,000 miles for mostly these reasons.
If I had the experience I have now I’d have got the Diff first. They weren’t readily available back then so-nobody focused much on them. Repaired Diffs are hit and miss sometimes so the chance to buy anew one fairly locally from Central Tvr and mine was whining was a no brainier.
I’m very glad I did as it’s removed what was still slack in the transmission and nothing can mask that.
Loose and worn chain on a bike, exactly the same effect when coming on/off throttle so how do you fix that!
So my conclusion is check the diff or if you know it’s nice and tight great
What I’m saying is
Softer clutch via Tvr Parts
New Diff and finally MBE or any after market Ecu transforms the car and transports it from a has been to something cars of much greater value would struggle to achieve.
A car for life, odd i day that as I now face selling mine.
That’s another story I’d rather not bore you with but that’s what I think you can achieve
Trust in a car is vital and not something very recognisable in the Tvr world well I believe that’s now a myth in my car at least. Many others too and the CUX does do a good job there’s no question, it’s just all the old bits it needs to do that that ruin the experience for me as I don’t do breaking down.
I proved the MBE by driving 1000 miles across France in 24 hours from the U.K. via Ferry
I’ve trusted it ever since to do the same thing whenever I’d ask of it.
That’s quite something for what amounts to a similar amount for say a 100,000 miles service at a dealers,, which should be done by 50,000 miles on a Tvr imho anyway.
People spend £1400 on shocks.........
What you will find is if Dom or the boys see things that will restrict how well,this will work they are likely to tell you and the associated costs that will be involved.
Not everyone is happy to hear this.
If your cars in rude health and I do like the colour
it will be worth it that’s for sure. I think a chap has just driven his newly installed Mbe V8S to Monaco for the Historic GP and his S is a picture of perfection, he says the Mbe is night and day, the performances has come alive.
Hi Alun, I am glad to hear that you are now basking in the reliability of the MBE System, it gives me confidence in the System.
Takes me back to my younger days, when I use to drive my Triumph GT6 (just running SU carbs std Dizzy and leads) all over the Country - 20,000 miles per year and never even thought about the cars reliability, let alone taking a Mobile Phone just in case the car decided to have an unexpected pit stop!
They now say that the old cars were not reliable, well my other half has had her V/X Adam go back to the Dealer 3 times so far within 18 months and 9000 miles (the dealer told me it was to be expected with the amount of cars being made - let's hope that Life Belts aren't made by them) . Triumph TR6's could be unreliable on a very hot day, but the solution to that problem was to wrap a pack of Frozen Peas around the old Lucas Fuel Pump.
Takes me back to my younger days, when I use to drive my Triumph GT6 (just running SU carbs std Dizzy and leads) all over the Country - 20,000 miles per year and never even thought about the cars reliability, let alone taking a Mobile Phone just in case the car decided to have an unexpected pit stop!
They now say that the old cars were not reliable, well my other half has had her V/X Adam go back to the Dealer 3 times so far within 18 months and 9000 miles (the dealer told me it was to be expected with the amount of cars being made - let's hope that Life Belts aren't made by them) . Triumph TR6's could be unreliable on a very hot day, but the solution to that problem was to wrap a pack of Frozen Peas around the old Lucas Fuel Pump.
citizen smith said:
Hi Alun, I am glad to hear that you are now basking in the reliability of the MBE System, it gives me confidence in the System.
Takes me back to my younger days, when I use to drive my Triumph GT6 (just running SU carbs std Dizzy and leads) all over the Country - 20,000 miles per year and never even thought about the cars reliability, let alone taking a Mobile Phone just in case the car decided to have an unexpected pit stop!
They now say that the old cars were not reliable, well my other half has had her V/X Adam go back to the Dealer 3 times so far within 18 months and 9000 miles (the dealer told me it was to be expected with the amount of cars being made - let's hope that Life Belts aren't made by them) . Triumph TR6's could be unreliable on a very hot day, but the solution to that problem was to wrap a pack of Frozen Peas around the old Lucas Fuel Pump.
The worlds going up it’s own ass Takes me back to my younger days, when I use to drive my Triumph GT6 (just running SU carbs std Dizzy and leads) all over the Country - 20,000 miles per year and never even thought about the cars reliability, let alone taking a Mobile Phone just in case the car decided to have an unexpected pit stop!
They now say that the old cars were not reliable, well my other half has had her V/X Adam go back to the Dealer 3 times so far within 18 months and 9000 miles (the dealer told me it was to be expected with the amount of cars being made - let's hope that Life Belts aren't made by them) . Triumph TR6's could be unreliable on a very hot day, but the solution to that problem was to wrap a pack of Frozen Peas around the old Lucas Fuel Pump.
BMW powerful people kept a secret that some of their cars going way back to the early 2000’s can have an electrical issue that cuts all power even when moving,,, deadly.
They didn’t recall what amounts to 100,000’s of vehicles around the world until 2014-16.
The difference now seems to be it’s not reported or made news,,,,,, power.
citizen smith said:
Hi Alun,
The clutch is all sorted v.light and a smooth action. Think that the diff is O.K., can't hear any strange noises or nasty clunk in a slack drive line.
I might have suggested a meet and clutch off race,,,,, lightest wins
It’s the business as any decent system mapped will be so even though I write essays it’s all the same thing really.
I liken it to the CUX without the worries.
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