Light conversion ?
Discussion
phazed said:
Dave, can you let me know what the actual bulbs are that you use?
Hi Peter, I've just been out to the garage to look for the box my last set of LED H4s came in, but unfortunately it looks like I've thrown it away 
. They were Chinese jobbies purchased on a punt from AliExpress, sorry I can't recall the brand but I've actually had success twice now with two different brands as I'm already on my second set, but only because these LED H4s seem to get brighter and better performing every year so I upgraded when I converted to Mk3 headlights.This may help though...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=14...
The post starts with me fitting 3,200 lumen LED H4s to my standard headlights and ends with me fitting a more modern and powerful set to my Mk3 headlight conversion in 2016 with the addition of the excellent PIA LP270 driving lights to give the dips a little more reach. My first set of LED H4s had little fans in them, but my second even brighter set did away with the fans as heat sink technology had clearly caught up by then. Personally I prefer with out fans as it's just something else to fail, my newer fanless heat sink versions are also silent.... not that you could hear the fans in my first ones over an idling TVR
LED technology is progressing literally day by day so what I have being a few years old now is probably ancient tech anyway, shortly after I'd finished the project we started seeing LED bulb replacement units where you can actually adjust the LED positions to tune them to your specific reflectors which I would say is a definite advantage given my experiences.
Knowing what I know now and having done a lot of LED H4 testing, this latest tunable LED position idea looks very promising indeed.
These new breed of LED headlight bulbs are often 5200lm lumens or more each on high beam and are effectively adjustable for focal length, this allows them to be tuned precisely to your reflectors to deliver best light and safe beam performance.
However, you could easily argue the ultimate solution for people like us with Mk3 headlights would be to buy a set of complete 7" LED headlights rather than just fitting LED H4s to our Golf Mk1 headlights as I did, these units have a reflector that is carefully designed to work with the perfectly positioned LED emitter to give optimal results.
The two big manufacturers are JW Speaker and Truck-Lite, both have spent a lot of time and money developing LED headlights that by all accounts work perfectly and with zero compromise, the downside is you may be looking at over £300 a set of the cheaper option 7" round RHD Truck-Lite units! The Truck-Lite units are actually still a reflector type arrangement whereas the even more expensive JW Speakers deploy the more modern projector type technology which I believe delivers the very best results with both HiD and the new super bright LED technology which ultimate is overtaking HiD already.
To fit a set of JW Speakers or Truck-Lites would also require a bit of light fabrication, you'd need to get yourself a pair of 7" headlight bowls to mount them in, then mount the complete bowl & JW Speaker/Truck-Lite unit in the car. Obviously you can buy decent 7" headlight bowls everywhere and very cheaply as this was the setup used on most British classics and even Land Rover Defenders to this day, the challenge will be to make the setup adjustable from the rear as all these 7" bowls are designed for front adjustment which you obviously can't do with with faired headlights, I believe this is why TVR chose the Golf Mk1 units as they offer adjustment from the rear.
I decided while properly engineered complete 7" headlight units would probably work best getting JW Speakers or Truck-Lites to fit and ensuring they can be adjusted from the rear was all a bit of a faff, and these things are expensive too so this brought me full circle back to the idea of just slapping a set of LED H4s in my Golf headlight units, this worked really well but you do need to accept there may be some adjustment compromises so please read page 22 of my post where I have covered my findings in a summary of the project, and my solution to the minor issue of getting the perfect dip and full beam adjustment in the Golf reflector headlight units.
Like I say, my LED H4s are now a couple of years old and in the world of LED technological progress that's actually a lifetime, if I was revisiting the project, which I'm not because I'm still super happy with what I've got, I would be looking to upgrade to the very latest LED H4 bulb replacements units that allow you to turn the emitter to achieve the perfect relationship between emitter and Golf headlight reflector. This emitter to reflector adjustment is really just the final fine tuning to be completed after you have achieved the very best overall adjustment using the Golf headlight adjusters themselves.
Saying all this if you really did want to go to the ultimate solution to give the best spread and reach, super bright and super sharp cutoff especially on dip then the JW Speakers with their projector lenses would definitely be the way to go. We can see this proven by the fact that the serious Land Rover tuners and high end modifiers like Overfinch and Kahn ect all use 7" JW Speaker headlights in their high end and super expensive Defenders.
If you dont mind doing some fabrication work but feel these complete LED 7" headlight solutions from JW Speaker or Truck-Lite are too pricy then you can find a lot of copies on eBay and AliExpress for around £100 a set, just be aware quality and performance is a bit of an unknown and do be super careful to make sure you're getting RHD not LHD units as they are different.
Personally I'd save the money and fabrication hassle and look for the latest type of H4 LED bulb replacements with the adjustable emitter to reflector feature to allow their fine tuning with your existing Golf headlight units, this would be the same advice I'd give to people still with the standard Mk1/2 Chimaera headlights and their corrosion prone reflectors which is actually the biigest issue with the standard headlights by far.
Have a look on AliExpress, the choice is bewildering....
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&i...
Or play it safe and buy the new but twice as expensive offerings from Philips....
https://www.philips.com.hk/en/c-p/12953BWX2/x-trem...
Personally I'd save the dosh and go Chinese as I've been super happy with mine, perhaps I just got lucky? If you do go Chinese you will need to spend some time searching for what looks like the best option, and even then it will be a bit of a punt as to how well they perform.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 14th May 10:10
ChimpOnGas said:
Have a look on AliExpress, the choice is bewildering....
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&i...
Or play it safe and buy the new but twice as expensive offerings from Philips....
https://www.philips.com.hk/en/c-p/12953BWX2/x-trem...
Personally I'd save the dosh and go Chinese as I've been super happy with mine, perhaps I just got lucky? If you do go Chinese you will need to spend some time searching for what looks like the best option, and even then it will be a bit of a punt as to how well they perform.
140 squid for the Philips!https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&i...
Or play it safe and buy the new but twice as expensive offerings from Philips....
https://www.philips.com.hk/en/c-p/12953BWX2/x-trem...
Personally I'd save the dosh and go Chinese as I've been super happy with mine, perhaps I just got lucky? If you do go Chinese you will need to spend some time searching for what looks like the best option, and even then it will be a bit of a punt as to how well they perform.
I would try the Chinese but haven't a clue what to go for, any pointers?
phazed said:
140 squid for the Philips!
I would try the Chinese but haven't a clue what to go for, any pointers?
Try here https://www.made-in-china.com/productdirectory.do?...I would try the Chinese but haven't a clue what to go for, any pointers?
phazed said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Have a look on AliExpress, the choice is bewildering....
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&i...
Or play it safe and buy the new but twice as expensive offerings from Philips....
https://www.philips.com.hk/en/c-p/12953BWX2/x-trem...
Personally I'd save the dosh and go Chinese as I've been super happy with mine, perhaps I just got lucky? If you do go Chinese you will need to spend some time searching for what looks like the best option, and even then it will be a bit of a punt as to how well they perform.
140 squid for the Philips!https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&i...
Or play it safe and buy the new but twice as expensive offerings from Philips....
https://www.philips.com.hk/en/c-p/12953BWX2/x-trem...
Personally I'd save the dosh and go Chinese as I've been super happy with mine, perhaps I just got lucky? If you do go Chinese you will need to spend some time searching for what looks like the best option, and even then it will be a bit of a punt as to how well they perform.
I would try the Chinese but haven't a clue what to go for, any pointers?
All I can say is if you get a good set they work really really well
Here are some pointers to help with your searching:
1. Only consider the more modern super powerful single emitter type - The older multi emitter units are total rubbish
2. Ideally no fans - Heat sinks are less complicated and work well on mine so fans now seem a pointless complication and an unnecessary potential point of failure, the braided tail type heat sinks probably work too but I have no experience with them so I'd stick with traditional heat sinks if you can, saying that my first set had fans and they never gave a days trouble
3. Don't pay more than £45 for a set - Mine were about this 2-3 years ago so in theory they should be better and cheaper these days
4. Read the reviews - This can help a bit but dont believe everything you read especially if the reviewer's English is bad as it could be the manufacture or supplier themselves bigging their product up in a bid to improve sales
5. Don't bother with anything less than 5,000 Lumens - The problem here is you can't really trust our Chinese friends on the lumen output they claim for their LEDs as it's all to easy to claim 9,000 lumens to increase sales, 12,000 lumens seems to be the benchmark these days which is bonkers bright if its true
6. Try and find a set where you can adjust the focal length - Sadly these are really hard to find
7. Make sure they are marked as Hi/Lo - Or you could end up with H4 fog light LED bulbs which obviously would be no good at all
Hope this helps?
Dave.
SILICONEKID 345HP 12.03 said:
How good are projector lights ? The reason I asked you can buy oe lupo projector lights .
If you can live with the looks Daz that would be a good option, well for light output at least Combine the Lupo projectors with some of these modern high power LEDs and it should give amazing light with a nice sharp cutoff too, so no blinding oncoming drivers.
My only concern would be how they'll make the car look
Too much of a departure from the original classic Chimaera Mk1/2/3 aesthetics can go very wrong very quickly in my opinion, I went with the Mk3 conversion which I think looks the best of all three incarnations of what was a beautiful design from day one.
You also get to bin the expensive corrosion prone reflectors and replace with readily available Mk1 Golf units, while these were never known for their light output you can sort this with LED H4s, or you could fit JW Speaker or Truck-Lites behind the faired perspex covers which would be way less obvious than your Lupo projector idea.
Don't fek it up a stylish car by making it all fugly with a stunned frog face mate
ChimpOnGas said:
2. Ideally no fans - Heat sinks are less complicated and work well on mine so fans now seem a pointless complication and an unnecessary potential point of failure, the braided tail type heat sinks probably work too but I have no experience with them so I'd stick with traditional heat sinks if you can, saying that my first set had fans and they never gave a days trouble
Thanks for reaffirming my thought, I'm always surprised at the number of self appointed experts recommending LEDs with fans.My other question is with regards to these that appear to have a deflector/sheild on the low beam. like these.
I presume the tab has to be directed one way or another so should be adjustable. Should it be on the left or the right of the chip?
I'm contemplating either of these or maybe these I've upgraded most of the other lamps to LED and had mixed results with some of them having chips fail. For £20 no real deal if the're garbage I'd just sooner not buy 9 samples to find the one I like like I did with the dash lamps.
indigochim said:
ChimpOnGas said:
2. Ideally no fans - Heat sinks are less complicated and work well on mine so fans now seem a pointless complication and an unnecessary potential point of failure, the braided tail type heat sinks probably work too but I have no experience with them so I'd stick with traditional heat sinks if you can, saying that my first set had fans and they never gave a days trouble
Thanks for reaffirming my thought, I'm always surprised at the number of self appointed experts recommending LEDs with fans.My other question is with regards to these that appear to have a deflector/sheild on the low beam. like these.
I presume the tab has to be directed one way or another so should be adjustable. Should it be on the left or the right of the chip?
I'm contemplating either of these
Try them and report back on your results, if they really are 9,000 lumens they will be even brighter than the one's I've been using for the last 2/3 years.... which work extremely well
At £19.20 they are a great price too, as you say it's not a huge gamble to try them given they are less than twenty quid!
It's also my opinion a deflector sheild on the low beam is a desirable feature, the reason I say this is the real deal £140 Philips X-tremeUltinon LED H4s also have this feature.
I feel the real deal ones at £140 are unnecessarily expensive, while the Philips brand gives confidence in quality I really don't believe they are worth £140 a set when you can buy an equally powerful Chinese set for £20 these days.
The challenge with this new technology is not the light output, LED emitters well exceeded what you can achieve with a traditional bulb a long time ago. However, the results of just fitting LED H4s to your standard headlights will always be governed by how well they work with the reflector, a reflector that lets face it was specifically designed to work with traditional incandescent bulbs not LEDs.
It's clear manufacturers attempt to get around this challenge by designing their LED bulb replacement units to behave as closely as possible to how a incandescent bulb throws light, to understand this better it's well worth closely studying a twin filament Hi/Lo incandescent headlight bulb.
As we can see the good old incandescent headlight bulb also sports a deflector shield, so given we are trying to replicate the behavior and light throw of the traditional incandescent bulb using an LED emitter.... it makes perfect sense that Philips designed their expensive LED H4s with the same deflector shield.
It does seem your find ticks most of the boxes including the use of a deflector shield and the omission of fans which I've proved are an unnecessary complication as I've been running fanless high powered LED H4s with good effect for 2/3 years now, my devastatingly powerful PIAA LP270 LED driving lights also dont use fans and neither do the real deal £140 Philips X-tremeUltinon LED H4s.
Please do try a set of the shielded £20 AliExpess 9,000 lumen LED H4s you found, and please don't forget to return to this post to let us all know how they perform
SILICONEKID 345HP 12.03 said:
Will the car pass the mot with leds fitted ?
Mine always does Daz, saying that it passes with no cats too In my opinion it's also worth upgrading the rest of the lights on the car, a while back I fitted high power LED stop tail bulbs which was a big step up in the light you get from the best traditional incandescent stop tail bulbs, more recently I also switched to powerful LED indicator bulbs which was equally if not more successful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIwo2drRFwQ
Finally one of the best ways to improve the visibility of a Chimaera at night (from the rear at least) is to upgrade the translucent rear number plate light to a bank of powerful LEDs which I've also done to good effect.
LED is definitely the way forward, you just need to choose the emitters/bulb replacements well and the results will be a big step forward in safety, driver visibility and the how well other road users can see the car at night and in the case of brake lights... even in the day
Actually, switching to LEDs has been one of the most significant elements in my continual pursuit of improving and updating my Chimaera without changing the car's classic aesthetics:
- Better handling - Ben Lang's Mk4 Bilsteins
- Better brakes - E38 BMW Brembo calipers and 320mm Ford Focus RS discs
- Better tyres - Uniroyal Rainsport 3's
- Better wipers - Not really but Rain-X is a huge help
- Better lighting all round - Switch to LEDs
- Better reliability, petrol drivability, economy, idle and throttle response - Canems engine management
- Better fuel economy - Canems Dual Fuel ECU burning £0.56p a litre LPG = 50mpg
- Better seats - Jag XJS leather Recaros
- Better gearbox - S10 tail housing/ TVR linkage delete
- Better alternator - Genuine Magneti Marrelui/Denso 120amp unit
- Better ignition leads - MSD Superconductors and plug extender delete
- Better plugs - NGK Iridium extended electrode No6
- Better breathing - ACT induction kit
- Better carpets - Replaced faded originals with Martrim quality Wilston carpet
- Better touring range - 300 miles on LPG with 150 additional miles on petrol
- Better starting - Starter cable and earthing upgrades, resolved immobiliser issues too
- Better aesthetics - Mk3 headlight upgrade
In summary and when compared with the car as it left Bristol Avenue in 1996 my TVR now has infinitely better performance, brakes, handling, reliability, comfort, fuel economy, night driving visibility, gear shift feel, looks and overall everyday usability.
I've achieved all this without removing the unique sounds, charm and charisma offered by the Chimaera and I've also done so without breaking the bank, as such it has to be the most practical 'improved for the modern age' classic British sports car this side of an £100k Frontline MGB or even a £600k Eagle E-Type, not bad for a car I bought 9 years ago for £7,900 and one that still to this day only owes me £15k even after everything I've done to improve what was already a great car when it was new.
The best bit is everything I've done to improve the car has been covered by appreciation anyway, so excluding Tax, insurance and fuel it's effectively been a free to own car
.
Andav,
What headlamps do you have? Original, MK3 or aftermarket..?
If original, have you noticed any of the issues Dave found regarding beam angle high/low, or have you managed to sort the issue using the LED adjustability*?
Thanks.
What headlamps do you have? Original, MK3 or aftermarket..?
If original, have you noticed any of the issues Dave found regarding beam angle high/low, or have you managed to sort the issue using the LED adjustability*?
Thanks.
- assuming the Philips LEDs have adjustable focal length?
Edited by Dominic TVRetto on Tuesday 15th May 22:56
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