Remapping 14cux
Discussion
My car is running very well but as ive recently uprated the heads and induction components i feel now i should get it remapped properly.
With a rough cost of a remap at £300 i cant help feeling i should just junk the lucas system, sell it and use the funds to go aftermarket.
I know id have to get this mapped properly, but it would be a lot easier to do so.
Im about 4 hours from kits and classics, and 2 hours from lloyds specialist, both who seem to be well respected here.
Im actually leaning toward Megasquirt as id like to diy install and this can be done for around £1000 but not all tuners like it.
Any thoughts would be great.
Thanks.
With a rough cost of a remap at £300 i cant help feeling i should just junk the lucas system, sell it and use the funds to go aftermarket.
I know id have to get this mapped properly, but it would be a lot easier to do so.
Im about 4 hours from kits and classics, and 2 hours from lloyds specialist, both who seem to be well respected here.
Im actually leaning toward Megasquirt as id like to diy install and this can be done for around £1000 but not all tuners like it.
Any thoughts would be great.
Thanks.
If you want both power and reliability your not wrong.
My only reservation over self install would be selling might be more difficult but that’s probably nonsense because when you drive one with a good system you’ll be more impressed,, or should be.
It doesn’t add a penny value but it will be easy to sell.
Also a friend needed an alarms expert to wire that side up which will add considersble cost if needed.
From the friends I know of who have done this I don’t think one would go back so that probably says quite a lot. Being close to the mapper in the first instance might be important but if done well shouldn’t need re maps any sooner than a CUX will if perimeters change.
Reaction times with these modern systems is seemless and does make the engine much smoother.
It also takes seconds to hook up and check things over, a quick glance once you understand the software as it’s all quite user friendly is easy and the feeling of being in control a revelation.
You should see faults much easier and earlier, fuel tables are easy to read once you look into it.
Great idea if you ask me
My only reservation over self install would be selling might be more difficult but that’s probably nonsense because when you drive one with a good system you’ll be more impressed,, or should be.
It doesn’t add a penny value but it will be easy to sell.
Also a friend needed an alarms expert to wire that side up which will add considersble cost if needed.
From the friends I know of who have done this I don’t think one would go back so that probably says quite a lot. Being close to the mapper in the first instance might be important but if done well shouldn’t need re maps any sooner than a CUX will if perimeters change.
Reaction times with these modern systems is seemless and does make the engine much smoother.
It also takes seconds to hook up and check things over, a quick glance once you understand the software as it’s all quite user friendly is easy and the feeling of being in control a revelation.
You should see faults much easier and earlier, fuel tables are easy to read once you look into it.
Great idea if you ask me
I went bigger injectors (Vauxhall), 20AM AFM, changed plugs and leads junking the extenders, inlet ported, new fuel regulator and a remap from Joolz at kits and classics so still have the 14CUX. 267bhp and 310 torque before with over 250 torque from 1800 revs to 5800, 287 and 315 after but better fuelling which was my main concern as it was not great before - was leaning out at higher revs. Feels more responsive and a bit quicker. This is on a 430BV Griff which has a high mileage, ie 240k ish but no idea when the cam was last changed. New Cam may push these figures higher.
FFG
FFG
All I have to do is consider the mileage I’ve done since mine was changed and the money in service and fuel costs I’ve saved coupled with the sale of my complete CUX and as it’s never needed any Ecu maintenance or mapping since install ( coming up 3 years now) it’s down to costing me about £1400 so far 
It’s not about costs and more about how good the car can become but you get my drift. I can’t be breaking down so servicing for me every 6000 miles would incl ign module, coil, everything. It’s expensive or can be.
You’ve done away with that cost, I do or did do fair mileage so it really does make sense for me
It’s not about costs and more about how good the car can become but you get my drift. I can’t be breaking down so servicing for me every 6000 miles would incl ign module, coil, everything. It’s expensive or can be.
You’ve done away with that cost, I do or did do fair mileage so it really does make sense for me
Edited by Classic Chim on Wednesday 27th June 10:50
If you are running lambda feedback, and the car drives nicely, then why remap? Its all doing what it should- the great thing about running a MAF sensor is it can happily calibrate for engine modifications as the airflow improves. The only thing to check is pop a test meter on the lambda outputs (Black and white wires) with some long leads so a passenger can read the meter. Then get the car under full load / peak RPM for a few seconds (This can get really hairy!!) whilst you passenger screams and reads the test meter to make sure you have at least 1.2 volts from the probes. This will show if the mapping has enough capacity in it for the extra air flow. Id leave it all alone if this test passes, as you don't have much to gain for all the expense.
You have already answered your own question then- Green tune is the best you can get on the 14CUX. You can still use the lambda output as a guide line on green tune to see how good the fueling is- From idle to about 3400 1 to 1.2 volts, WOT, 1.2 or above, and under light load it should drop to zero.
I plan try try running green tune on a catted car if I can find a volunteer,(??) I now dont think it will cook the catalysts, as part of the heat from the catalysts is put there on purpose to burn an extra HC, by throwing in extra fuel, so its wasted BHP wise. An efficient green tune would not have the rich part of the catalyst cycle, so the cats would run cooler. MOT time, you simply have a switchable tune resistor to drop back to white for emissions.
I plan try try running green tune on a catted car if I can find a volunteer,(??) I now dont think it will cook the catalysts, as part of the heat from the catalysts is put there on purpose to burn an extra HC, by throwing in extra fuel, so its wasted BHP wise. An efficient green tune would not have the rich part of the catalyst cycle, so the cats would run cooler. MOT time, you simply have a switchable tune resistor to drop back to white for emissions.
Belle427 said:
im not too concerned on gaining any power as i dont think you actually see that much of a gain but its the modernising im more interested in.
My 14cux is pretty spot on at the moment though with zero shunting so its a difficult one.
I’d be inclined to agree if you have learnt about the CUX and it runs well then why change it. My 14cux is pretty spot on at the moment though with zero shunting so its a difficult one.
Modernising, ah we can help you there sir
A mate who’s worked at Rover Gaydon and a mechanic for over 20 years and counting said after its emissions test for Mot it was cleaner than any he’d ever tested, including gems RR and was convinced it must be running lean but it’s not as I went straight over to powers to check
! Catt works then but this clean running is what’s at the heart of it all. blitzracing said:
You have already answered your own question then- Green tune is the best you can get on the 14CUX. You can still use the lambda output as a guide line on green tune to see how good the fueling is- From idle to about 3400 1 to 1.2 volts, WOT, 1.2 or above, and under light load it should drop to zero.
I plan try try running green tune on a catted car if I can find a volunteer,(??) I now dont think it will cook the catalysts, as part of the heat from the catalysts is put there on purpose to burn an extra HC, by throwing in extra fuel, so its wasted BHP wise. An efficient green tune would not have the rich part of the catalyst cycle, so the cats would run cooler. MOT time, you simply have a switchable tune resistor to drop back to white for emissions.
Good advice on the testing, would splash out on an afr gauge but we are talking at least £200 there.I plan try try running green tune on a catted car if I can find a volunteer,(??) I now dont think it will cook the catalysts, as part of the heat from the catalysts is put there on purpose to burn an extra HC, by throwing in extra fuel, so its wasted BHP wise. An efficient green tune would not have the rich part of the catalyst cycle, so the cats would run cooler. MOT time, you simply have a switchable tune resistor to drop back to white for emissions.
Belle427 said:
im not too concerned on gaining any power as i dont think you actually see that much of a gain but its the modernising im more interested in.
My 14cux is pretty spot on at the moment though with zero shunting so its a difficult one.
I had my 500 mapped by Joolz at the same time he fitted a 20am AFM, the car gave 325bhp and 370 Torques, but more importantly, the car runs superb, very little shunting, smooth running and the ability to drive immediately and smoothly on a cold start.My 14cux is pretty spot on at the moment though with zero shunting so its a difficult one.
He mapped mine 3 years ago, never missed a beat since
Belle427 said:
I cant help feeling i should just junk the lucas system, sell it and use the funds to go aftermarket.
Junk the Distributor and go coil packs and Megasquirt you'll never look back.A dizzy is a complete compromise - no place on a sports car and with MS not only can you get fuelling spot on but timing too.
Lloyds did a great job on my MS but they prefer the CANEMS system which is probably a cut above MS.
debaron said:
Belle427 said:
I cant help feeling i should just junk the lucas system, sell it and use the funds to go aftermarket.
Junk the Distributor and go coil packs and Megasquirt you'll never look back.A dizzy is a complete compromise - no place on a sports car and with MS not only can you get fuelling spot on but timing too.
Lloyds did a great job on my MS but they prefer the CANEMS system which is probably a cut above MS.
Belle427 said:
I see to diy the Canems system is £1830, is it really that much better?
As most cars are weekend toys or an investment so low miles will be key to ownership probably not. If you want to remove many niggles in one shot so the car takes on a different level of reliability which in turn makes the car far more practical to use then it’s great value overall.
If it’s mapped well it should feel better/ faster almost everywhere other than ft to the floor stuff
so for me yes it’s way way better than a Dizzy set up but then I have Mbe mapped by Jay, how good is that guy by the way
As above, junk the 14CUX and distributor for modern ECU and coil packs/wasted spark.
I only have Megasquirt experience using it on my highly modified, fuel injected, bike throttle bodied throttle Lotus Twincam.
I will be Megasquirting the Chimaera this winter. I've bought a 14CU which is cheaply available and uses the same plug. I'm using just the socket out of the CU to make an adaptor between the existing CUX plug and the Megasquirt socket. I will adapt the existing loom for the new sensors, just using a small new loom for the coil packs. The crank sensor and wide band have their own specific cables anyway. This arrangement will allow for future reversal, not sure why I would wish to revert except for selling maybe.
Tuners are generally more familiar with one or two products and anything different is going to take extra time and effort, especially if it's a poor diy install causing problems. Good news is that the majority of fuel tuning can be done yourself, on the road using the supplied Tunerstudio Auto tune feature. Tunerstudio can generate a suggested AFR table for your engine specifics, or you can download one, as a starting place. You then spend time driving in each of the VE table load cells and, using the wide band feedback, auto tune matches the fueling to the AFR table. This might be a bit of a challenge in the TVR upper limits however as far as tuning is concerned this area of the table is less important as basically you're just chucking loads of fuel in!
Tuning the ignition timing however does require a rolling road. The ignition map is crucial for part throttle economy. On the rolling road, you visit a good selection of part throttle ignition load cells and adjust the timing for best torque. The gains are quite remarkable and more torque equals less right foot equals better economy.
The RR tuner was very dismissive of my choice of Megasquirt, he is now well impressed! Admittedly I was driving the laptop, he was driving the RR and issuing the instructions!
You will save even more if you build Megasquirt from a kit and this also allows you to modify as necessary for your own requirements, ie number of coil drivers etc. It's not difficult, takes a bit of time, but most importantly teaches you all about the system.
If you download this http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Megasquirt2_Se...
it pretty much explains everything involved.
Good luck!
Dougal.
I only have Megasquirt experience using it on my highly modified, fuel injected, bike throttle bodied throttle Lotus Twincam.
I will be Megasquirting the Chimaera this winter. I've bought a 14CU which is cheaply available and uses the same plug. I'm using just the socket out of the CU to make an adaptor between the existing CUX plug and the Megasquirt socket. I will adapt the existing loom for the new sensors, just using a small new loom for the coil packs. The crank sensor and wide band have their own specific cables anyway. This arrangement will allow for future reversal, not sure why I would wish to revert except for selling maybe.
Tuners are generally more familiar with one or two products and anything different is going to take extra time and effort, especially if it's a poor diy install causing problems. Good news is that the majority of fuel tuning can be done yourself, on the road using the supplied Tunerstudio Auto tune feature. Tunerstudio can generate a suggested AFR table for your engine specifics, or you can download one, as a starting place. You then spend time driving in each of the VE table load cells and, using the wide band feedback, auto tune matches the fueling to the AFR table. This might be a bit of a challenge in the TVR upper limits however as far as tuning is concerned this area of the table is less important as basically you're just chucking loads of fuel in!
Tuning the ignition timing however does require a rolling road. The ignition map is crucial for part throttle economy. On the rolling road, you visit a good selection of part throttle ignition load cells and adjust the timing for best torque. The gains are quite remarkable and more torque equals less right foot equals better economy.
The RR tuner was very dismissive of my choice of Megasquirt, he is now well impressed! Admittedly I was driving the laptop, he was driving the RR and issuing the instructions!
You will save even more if you build Megasquirt from a kit and this also allows you to modify as necessary for your own requirements, ie number of coil drivers etc. It's not difficult, takes a bit of time, but most importantly teaches you all about the system.
If you download this http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Megasquirt2_Se...
it pretty much explains everything involved.
Good luck!
Dougal.
As above, junk the 14CUX and distributor for modern ECU and coil packs/wasted spark.
I only have Megasquirt experience using it on my highly modified, fuel injected, bike throttle bodied throttle Lotus Twincam.
I will be Megasquirting the Chimaera this winter. I've bought a 14CU which is cheaply available and uses the same plug. I'm using just the socket out of the CU to make an adaptor between the existing CUX plug and the Megasquirt socket. I will adapt the existing loom for the new sensors, just using a small new loom for the coil packs. The crank sensor and wide band have their own specific cables anyway. This arrangement will allow for future reversal, not sure why I would wish to revert except for selling maybe.
Tuners are generally more familiar with one or two products and anything different is going to take extra time and effort, especially if it's a poor diy install causing problems. Good news is that the majority of fuel tuning can be done yourself, on the road using the supplied Tunerstudio Auto tune feature. Tunerstudio can generate a suggested AFR table for your engine specifics, or you can download one, as a starting place. You then spend time driving in each of the VE table load cells and, using the wide band feedback, auto tune matches the fueling to the AFR table. This might be a bit of a challenge in the TVR upper limits however as far as tuning is concerned this area of the table is less important as basically you're just chucking loads of fuel in!
Tuning the ignition timing however does require a rolling road. The ignition map is crucial for part throttle economy. On the rolling road, you visit a good selection of part throttle ignition load cells and adjust the timing for best torque. The gains are quite remarkable and more torque equals less right foot equals better economy.
The RR tuner was very dismissive of my choice of Megasquirt, he is now well impressed! Admittedly I was driving the laptop, he was driving the RR and issuing the instructions!
You will save even more if you build Megasquirt from a kit and this also allows you to modify as necessary for your own requirements, ie number of coil drivers etc. It's not difficult, takes a bit of time, but most importantly teaches you all about the system.
If you download this http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Megasquirt2_Se...
it pretty much explains everything involved.
Good luck!
Dougal.
I only have Megasquirt experience using it on my highly modified, fuel injected, bike throttle bodied throttle Lotus Twincam.
I will be Megasquirting the Chimaera this winter. I've bought a 14CU which is cheaply available and uses the same plug. I'm using just the socket out of the CU to make an adaptor between the existing CUX plug and the Megasquirt socket. I will adapt the existing loom for the new sensors, just using a small new loom for the coil packs. The crank sensor and wide band have their own specific cables anyway. This arrangement will allow for future reversal, not sure why I would wish to revert except for selling maybe.
Tuners are generally more familiar with one or two products and anything different is going to take extra time and effort, especially if it's a poor diy install causing problems. Good news is that the majority of fuel tuning can be done yourself, on the road using the supplied Tunerstudio Auto tune feature. Tunerstudio can generate a suggested AFR table for your engine specifics, or you can download one, as a starting place. You then spend time driving in each of the VE table load cells and, using the wide band feedback, auto tune matches the fueling to the AFR table. This might be a bit of a challenge in the TVR upper limits however as far as tuning is concerned this area of the table is less important as basically you're just chucking loads of fuel in!
Tuning the ignition timing however does require a rolling road. The ignition map is crucial for part throttle economy. On the rolling road, you visit a good selection of part throttle ignition load cells and adjust the timing for best torque. The gains are quite remarkable and more torque equals less right foot equals better economy.
The RR tuner was very dismissive of my choice of Megasquirt, he is now well impressed! Admittedly I was driving the laptop, he was driving the RR and issuing the instructions!
You will save even more if you build Megasquirt from a kit and this also allows you to modify as necessary for your own requirements, ie number of coil drivers etc. It's not difficult, takes a bit of time, but most importantly teaches you all about the system.
If you download this http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Megasquirt2_Se...
it pretty much explains everything involved.
Good luck!
Dougal.
Dougal9887 said:
I've bought a 14CU which is cheaply available and uses the same plug. I'm using just the socket out of the CU to make an adaptor between the existing CUX plug and the Megasquirt socket. I will adapt the existing loom for the new sensors, just using a small new loom for the coil packs. The crank sensor and wide band have their own specific cables anyway. This arrangement will allow for future reversal, not sure why I would wish to revert except for selling maybe.Dougal.
Neat idea, I might have to copy your idea one day. Was you 14CU cheap because it was for a 4 cylinder Montego or SAAB? I’m not going to hack up a good V8 14CUX.Thanks, Steve Sprint
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