Engine ticking noise...

[Squirrelofwoe]

I know this has been done a gazillion times, but just wanted to get people's opinion on mine based on the sound clips.

Info as follows:-

-1995 serpentine 400hc, 78,000 miles

-New Taraka 885 camshaft (kit including followers etc) fitted end of April including cam thrust plate, adjustable timing chain set, new waterpump, sump gasket, rocker cover gaskets, spark plugs.

-Oil used was Fuchs Titan Pro fully synthetic

-All of that undertaken at TVR specialist

-A month later went back with ticking noise which had been apparent since camshaft change, stripped down and it was found a pad had come away on a rocker, so faulty rocker was replaced. Collected car, and still making noise.

-Noise not very apparent when cold, gets worse as engine heats up.

-Rises and falls with revs

-Oil pressure spot on according to gauge, oil level spot on according to dipstick. Oil looks clear and no sign of water contamination in filler cap.

-Performance doesn't appear to have suffered at all, revs cleanly and car goes like stink.


Sound clips (engine was right up to temp with fans cutting in as required at this point) - listen on headphones if possible- I realised my phone speaker made it sound like the engine was coming apart, when actually it is simply a ticking noise!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mhH2hb9xHA&fe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3IO7eFsVfY&fe...


Car is booked back in with the same specialist but earliest they can fit it in is 3 weeks time. They suspect still rocker related, and intend to replace.

Having read pretty much every related thread I could find on here (going back to 2002!) over the last day or so, it seems a similar noise can result from a holed/cracked exhaust manifold or failed manifold gasket.

With that in mind I tried the 'listen through a pipe' trick and whilst not particularly conclusive, there did seem to be a possibility of it being more apparent down alongside the drivers-side manifold. Also checked the manifold bolts (with a finger held socket only so as not to over-tighten) and the front bolt on the offside manifold was finger loose.

There are no obvious signs of soot build up around the gaskets (from the top at least), but it doesn't look like they have ever been changed. Also checked the tightness of spark plugs as suggest elsewhere and all seem fine.

I just wondered, based on the sound clips, if anyone could suggest the likelihood of this being manifold related rather than valve-train related, particularly as there is no apparent performance issue? (In performance terms the car has never felt this good!).

Or if anyone with experience of this was going to be anywhere near the West Oxford area and fancied having a closer inspection?! I'm happy to travel, but obviously don't want to use the car any more than I have to if it might be something more serious...

Open to suggestions (of impending doom)

[sapper]

Why not change the manifold gaskets whilst your are waiting for it to go back in for inspection.
It’s a pain but not difficult and at least you would remove the doubt.

[citizen smith]

Could it be a slightly cracked manifold. When the manifold heats up, the crack widens through expansion.

[Squirrelofwoe]

sapper said:

Why not change the manifold gaskets whilst your are waiting for it to go back in for inspection.
It’s a pain but not difficult and at least you would remove the doubt.

I considered that and would love to, but after seeing the condition of the bolts I'd be terrified of one sheering off...

[Squirrelofwoe]

citizen smith said:

Could it be a slightly cracked manifold. When the manifold heats up, the crack widens through expansion.

It would stack up with the noise not really being apparent when cold but getting very noticeable as the car warms up.

[trev4]

Try listening to the engine from either side of the car with the bonnet up if it's a manifold it should be a bit louder on one side.

[bobfather]

Bung one tail pipe and rig up a pipe sealed into the other. If the exhaust has a leak you'll be able to blow freely into the pipe. If the exhaust is okay you'll be blowing into a sealed system. Works for me, I've even used this method to locate the leak using soapy water. Mine was leaking at the 4 into 1 junction

[N7GTX]

The original type manifolds usually crack where all the smaller pipes meet and right in the middle where you cant get to. It will be impossible to see until you get them off the car. Mine failed there so fitted the stainless ones (thats another story).
If the bolt at the front offside manifold was loose, then most of the rest will be too. The gaskets will likely be split or crumbling away. Self-loosening bolts, studs or nuts holding the manifolds is a problem - due to heat cycles - so after 3 times of it, I fitted these to prevent it happening again.

http://shop.roverp6cars.com/EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-LOCKE...

[Chimp871]

Admittedly I'm listening on my phone but you sure it's not just noisy tappets and a change of oil type may fix?

When you changed the rocker they changed like for like? Eg steel or ally as there's 2 different types.

Edited by Chimp871 on Wednesday 25th July 00:28

[bobfather]

See my article 'Find that elusive exhaust manifold leak' part way down this page

http://www.chimaerapages.com/technical-info.html

[Squirrelofwoe]

trev4 said:

Try listening to the engine from either side of the car with the bonnet up if it's a manifold it should be a bit louder on one side.

I also tried it with a piece of pipe to my ear - I *think* it's louder/more noticeable on the driver's side, but there isn't too much difference truth be told.

[Squirrelofwoe]

bobfather said:

See my article 'Find that elusive exhaust manifold leak' part way down this page

http://www.chimaerapages.com/technical-info.html

Ah perfect thank you!

I don't suppose you happen to know what diameter the tail pipe is do you?! I've just gone to order a couple of bungs and being at work I don't have the tailpipe diameter to hand to work out what size bungs I need!

ETA internet suggests 2.5" which sounds about right.

Edited by Squirrelofwoe on Wednesday 25th July 08:00

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Might just be a manifold gasket rather than the exhaust manifold itself?

....that's what it was for me on both occasions I had this

[bobfather]

Squirrelofwoe said:

Ah perfect thank you!

I don't suppose you happen to know what diameter the tail pipe is do you?! I've just gone to order a couple of bungs and being at work I don't have the tailpipe diameter to hand to work out what size bungs I need!

ETA internet suggests 2.5" which sounds about right.

Edited by Squirrelofwoe on Wednesday 25th July 08:00

my bungs are 55mm/60mm. You'll also need some gaffa tape to ensure an air tight seal

[Squirrelofwoe]

bobfather said:

my bungs are 55mm/60mm. You'll also need some gaffa tape to ensure an air tight seal

Whereabouts did you source yours from out of interest? I've tried all the usual places and can't seem to find any rubber bungs at that size! I've never been this stumped trying to find a product on the internet before

[bobfather]

Squirrelofwoe said:

Whereabouts did you source yours from out of interest? I've tried all the usual places and can't seem to find any rubber bungs at that size! I've never been this stumped trying to find a product on the internet before

Standard size 12 bung will do it. Just looked on ebay and they all come from China so postage time will be an issue

[Squirrelofwoe]

bobfather said:

Standard size 12 bung will do it. Just looked on ebay and they all come from China so postage time will be an issue

I think I might be ok - I remembered my parents have a huge stash of equipment from wine-making back in the day, including some stoppers for some very large containers, so I'll be checking tonight.

Ta for the info, will report back if I have any luck tracing a leak.

[Sardonicus]

Hang on why are you getting involved? its done it since the job was carried out and highly unlikely to be related to anything else (too coincidental IMO) a techs head ache is when something as gone AWOL and someone else as started fiddling or dismantling what they have done this will just tick-them-off when asked to rectify the problem later on or pick up the pieces or further damage TAKE IT BACK Its all in the ...."its done it since the work was carried out"

[Squirrelofwoe]

Sardonicus said:

Hang on why are you getting involved? its done it since the job was carried out and highly unlikely to be related to anything else (too coincidental IMO) a techs head ache is when something as gone AWOL and someone else as started fiddling or dismantling what they have done this will just tick-them-off when asked to rectify the problem later on or pick up the pieces or further damage TAKE IT BACK Its all in the ...."its done it since the work was carried out"

I'm not dismantling/taking anything apart!

I made the post purely because I wanted other opinions. They gave me the car back after changing the rocker (the second time they'd had the car back to sort the noise), and yet it is still making it. Given that changing the faulty rocker made no difference, and the fact it is another 3 weeks until they can take the car back in for a 3rd time, I was just interested in people's opinions on whether or not this noise might be stemming from a manifold leak, something the garage haven't considered.

I've no intention of taking anything apart (I've no garage at the moment anyway so it's a moot point even if I wanted to), but I figured any information I can gather (i.e checking for manifold leaks) would be useful, and potentially save another (potentially) pointless strip-down by the garage.

I'm considering the possibility of taking it to a different specialist to get another opinion but that's a whole other story and not something I wanted to get into on here.

[Sardonicus]

Squirrelofwoe said:

Sardonicus said:

Hang on why are you getting involved? its done it since the job was carried out and highly unlikely to be related to anything else (too coincidental IMO) a techs head ache is when something as gone AWOL and someone else as started fiddling or dismantling what they have done this will just tick-them-off when asked to rectify the problem later on or pick up the pieces or further damage TAKE IT BACK Its all in the ...."its done it since the work was carried out"

I'm not dismantling/taking anything apart!

I made the post purely because I wanted other opinions. They gave me the car back after changing the rocker (the second time they'd had the car back to sort the noise), and yet it is still making it. Given that changing the faulty rocker made no difference, and the fact it is another 3 weeks until they can take the car back in for a 3rd time, I was just interested in people's opinions on whether or not this noise might be stemming from a manifold leak, something the garage haven't considered.

I've no intention of taking anything apart (I've no garage at the moment anyway so it's a moot point even if I wanted to), but I figured any information I can gather (i.e checking for manifold leaks) would be useful, and potentially save another (potentially) pointless strip-down by the garage.

I'm considering the possibility of taking it to a different specialist to get another opinion but that's a whole other story and not something I wanted to get into on here.

It wasn't a dig at you more that you paid already and this problem as arisen since the work ,I wish I could be more helpful but video sound quality can differ and cant be trusted for this sort of thing its just to remote from the source of noise to be accurate