Discussion
I drive a lot of new/modern cars, I don't get in my Griff and think "these brakes are sh#t" !
Are you sure what you have are in good serviceable/working order?
If you've not driven it for some time it may want a bit of use to clean up the discs and pads?
Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 12th March 18:25
Plan A: Ditch the Yellow pads
Could be they are rubbish (your brakes, not the pads), could be you expect a lot more than I do?
Could be a million things, smidge of air in system after fitting braided hoses, master cylinder passed its best, pads glazed........
I'd look at getting a professional assesment from someone familiar with TVRs.
I did the Brembo conversion as have others for around £600 all in.
And yes the brakes are pretty poor when comparing them with modern stuff that has a light pedal feel.
Brembo
Ap racing
Hi Spec
Can all be utilised and there are threads detailing what’s required if you do a search.
I used to have the opinion the brakes were ok overall until I put some decent ones on and realised they work but feel very crude compared to high pressure multi piston performance brakes.
It’s probably the larger disc area that gives such a progressive feel on brake upgrades coupled with the extra clamping force for a lot less foot pressure.
Well worth it but usually requires 16 wheels to make work although Andav made his Brembo fit under 15’s I believe?
And yes the brakes are pretty poor when comparing them with modern stuff that has a light pedal feel.
Brembo
Ap racing
Hi Spec
Can all be utilised and there are threads detailing what’s required if you do a search.
I used to have the opinion the brakes were ok overall until I put some decent ones on and realised they work but feel very crude compared to high pressure multi piston performance brakes.
It’s probably the larger disc area that gives such a progressive feel on brake upgrades coupled with the extra clamping force for a lot less foot pressure.
Well worth it but usually requires 16 wheels to make work although Andav made his Brembo fit under 15’s I believe?
have you ever driven a kitcar or a historic car without servo? than the Chim / Griff brakes are fabiolus!!
most problem is caused by wrong / cheap/ glazed / old pads, plus a system not well maintained...my personal expirience on kitcars is for example: anything which is named EBC is going straight into the bin.
invest in a good set of pads with a good friction rate and see the difference.
most problem is caused by wrong / cheap/ glazed / old pads, plus a system not well maintained...my personal expirience on kitcars is for example: anything which is named EBC is going straight into the bin.
invest in a good set of pads with a good friction rate and see the difference.
Classic Chim said:
I did the Brembo conversion as have others for around £600 all in.
And yes the brakes are pretty poor when comparing them with modern stuff that has a light pedal feel.
Brembo
Ap racing
Hi Spec
Can all be utilised and there are threads detailing what’s required if you do a search.
I used to have the opinion the brakes were ok overall until I put some decent ones on and realised they work but feel very crude compared to high pressure multi piston performance brakes.
It’s probably the larger disc area that gives such a progressive feel on brake upgrades coupled with the extra clamping force for a lot less foot pressure.
Well worth it but usually requires 16 wheels to make work although Andav made his Brembo fit under 15’s I believe?
^^What he said^^^And yes the brakes are pretty poor when comparing them with modern stuff that has a light pedal feel.
Brembo
Ap racing
Hi Spec
Can all be utilised and there are threads detailing what’s required if you do a search.
I used to have the opinion the brakes were ok overall until I put some decent ones on and realised they work but feel very crude compared to high pressure multi piston performance brakes.
It’s probably the larger disc area that gives such a progressive feel on brake upgrades coupled with the extra clamping force for a lot less foot pressure.
Well worth it but usually requires 16 wheels to make work although Andav made his Brembo fit under 15’s I believe?
I absolutely love my Brembo big brake conversion
Highly recommended
ChimpOnGas said:
^^What he said^^^
I absolutely love my Brembo big brake conversion
Highly recommended
As these cars have always been a bit Leary speeding up, for them to be Leary slowing down is not the best thing in the world. I absolutely love my Brembo big brake conversion
Highly recommended
I agree with trying different pads or old discs being a problem on some cars, we use the brakes an awful lot in the U.K. what with winding roads and heavy traffic, it’s a very nice feeling having extremely usable brakes with deft control. Other than lots of power brakes are one of the best bits about a sportscar car so well worth getting right whatever way you go.
Disc size seems to be a big part of progressive feel aswell as massive clamping ability so bigger is better.
It’s total luck or it is in my case but the front upgrade without changing anything on the rears has worked and the balance if anything is much better. Mine over braked on the rears especially in the wet and now it s just more balanced, more front to rear bias I suppose which I was slightly nervous of but for me it’s brill and the car brakes with much more security and level pressure.
I wouldn’t say the standard single piston calipers are rubbish but compared to 4 or 6 pot calipers not quite the same level of feel.
The early Chimaera brakes are not brilliant (Sierra 1.6 size) but from 1996 when they fitted the 260mm front discs from the 500 to all models (which are basically Ford XR4i on a car about 200 kg lighter), I think they're good. The lack of ABS leads to many upgrading them understandably.
I had a Chimaera 500 back in 2001 and the rears would lock under heavy braking on that if the clutch was dipped, so I can understand how upgrading just the front would make the feel even better.
I have braided hoses too on the front from a previous owner, which helps I think.
I had a Chimaera 500 back in 2001 and the rears would lock under heavy braking on that if the clutch was dipped, so I can understand how upgrading just the front would make the feel even better.
I have braided hoses too on the front from a previous owner, which helps I think.
Edited by ianwayne on Wednesday 13th March 09:20
storm grey said:
just been looking on threads from previus chats and ford 888 calipers is a option anyone done it and can advise on result and were i could get some .
Fiesta ST brakes have replaced the 887/888 option. There is a sticky in the S Forum about upgrade options that is relevant to the chimp and grief.You need the carriers as well as the callipers. Very important.
I would echo what others have already said. Check the current system for faults. When was the last time the fluid was changed? Is the servo damaged? Are there any splits/leaks? Pretty simple to do.
I would do it anyway even if you do upgrade. No point renewing one bit if there is a fault(s) elsewhere.
You can also increase the rear brake size by simply swapping the carriers and discs. Pads and callipers remain the same. You could swap to vented rears (of larger or stock size discs) but that needs the calliper changing.
Moose v8 said:
Will let you know, just started on rear suspension. Polybush I guess it's worth doing diff bushes as well.
Please do Moose. I for one enjoy reading such threads / updates and others get the chance to see more options and brakes are just very exciting things when they work so well.
For something that is so easy to fit I find brake upgrades a great thing.
I faffed around with 1/2 mm shims to dead centre calipers on the discs but that introduced some vibration so removed them and they have been great for about 2 years driving, which is now 3 years as I hav’nt driven it for nearly a year other than to move it about, 6 months actually but feels a year
storm grey said:
i drove the car for the first time in a while and forgot how poor the brakes are compered with modern cars just wondering what some of you have done to impruve this and at what cost thanks.
Also consider the original Ford calipers can suffer from stuck/seized pistons, this is quite common and will have a big impact on braking performance. I had this very issue with mine, going back through the past MoT history before I bought the car revealed advisories ion brake imbalance which the so called TVR specialist Offord TVR had tried to solve by fitting brake pads and had then charged the previous owner a pretty penny for them too 
I could have just stuck a new piston and seal kit in myself but decided to cost out a professional refurb including plating and compare it with buying new Ford/ATE calipers which are still available at reasonable cost if you quote the Ford application rather than going to a TVR parts specialist.
However, when all options were compared it made sense to throw a bit more at the job and go with a set of Brembo calipers from an E38 BMW, a pair of big 324mm Mk1 Ford Focus RS discs, and the converter bracket kit from Old Phone Bloke on eBay. It was still a £600 exercise mind, and the maths only really made sense as I already had 16" front wheels because the previous owner had fitted them to improve tyre choice, it was essentially a nice free gift that made the big disc conversion possible.
As you might imagine, transitioning from my original sticky piston monoblock anvils half gripping 260mm discs to four opposing piston Brembos clamping down hard on massive 324mm discs was like night and day, and is an upgrade I would recommend to anyone with a Chimaera or Griffith.
The power of these brakes is considerable but it's the progressive feel that is the biggest improvement, much like throttle response the feel from the pedal and the controlability of my Brembo big disc setup massively enhances driving pleasure beyond anything I could hope to describe in words on an internet forum.
However, if money is tight and you still have 15" wheels I would encourage to to either have your existing calipers refurbished or even consider buying new, if you search on the Ford application you'll find a brand new set of calipers will only work out a little more than a professional refurb job including plating.
As with most things it's all about the size of your budget and what you feel you'll be happy with as an end result, finally pads do make a big difference. Personally I'm not a fan of EBC, indeed all track day pads will be a compromise on the road, I would encourage you just to buy road compound pads from a reputable well respected brake component manufacturer like Ferodo or Brembo.
griffdude said:
ChimpOnGas said:
indeed all track day pads will be a compromise on the road,
Oh, really? When have you last tried/tested a contemporary set of the trackday pads you refer to in your expert opinion?Make no mistake if the 'go faster market' manufacturers that peddle track day pads had found the holly grail no compromise compound the whole car manufacturing industry would have adopted it for their production road cars, and clearly this is simply not the case.
The truth is the usual suspects that peddle track day pads have tiny development budgets compared with OEMs, the money and engineering knowledge bank at the disposal of the car making giants is absolutely enormous by comparison so to think these track day pad peddlers like EBC and the like have come up with a miracle solution is at best extremely naive... and at worst highly ignorant!
No doubt compounds that perform better under extreme conditions of heat exist, no one is arguing that point as its well understood and proven, but I 100% grantee you the reason these compounds are not used on road cars produced by all the car making giants is they are always severely compromised in other areas that would make them a highly unacceptable to the car buying public.
The truth is all pad compounds operate to their greatest efficiency within a specific heat range, this band can be wider or narrower which is just one element of compromise. Trackday pads are simply designed to operate at higher temperatures, the problem with this is the band of temp operation for such pads will always become narrower and their ability to provide efficient performance when cold compared to a less radical road based compound becomes compromised.
Back on the track this compromise is as relevant to a race team as it is anywhere else as you'll find friction materials are systematically changed to suit specific tracks, one compound that suits Monaco would most definitely not be the same compound chosen for Melbourne, Spa or Monza as braking requirements are clearly very different at Monaco.
Another closely related example of where we see the same compromise is with tyres, the tyre compound chosen to suit one type of track will most definitely not the same compound chosen for another. Rain is another obvious variable but even ambient temperature changes on the exact same track will dictate a tyre compound change, and you'll find it's exactly the same for brake compounds!
Back to pad compounds a car driven on the road must have brakes that perform from cold and have a wide band of operating temperature, road compounds are of course a compromise too it's just the designer has chosen to forfeit the very upper temp range performance the pads will unlikely see on the road and exchange it for a far broader operating temperature band with special attention given to 'from cold' performance, noise, dust production ect.
As such what you'll find in every single case is a road pad compound will perform better over a wider range of temperatures which unsurprisingly makes it more suitable for road driving, conversely if you want a pad for track days there is a definite advantage to running a trackday compound it's just it will inevitably come with compromises, this is simply an unavoidable and inarguable fact.
In addition to heat range compromises there will always be other elements of compromise the brake compound designer must consider, there are many but the four key ones are:
1. The production of dust
2. The operating life of the disc
3. The operating life of the pad itself
4. Noise
If you can find me a track day pad compound that performs equally as well as a road compound pad in respect of dust production, 'from cold' performance, operational temp range, disc life, pad life and noise I will eat my hat.
The above are the inarguable facts covering pad compounds, the compromise issue is the battle designers of brake compounds and the chemical and material engineers that support them have faced since time in memorial. While compounds have indeed improved greatly over the years these challenges of compromise have not gone away because quite simply they exist as a function of the rules of nature.
If you want to fit trackday pads to your TVR that's fine but you must accept they will be compromised in one way or another, you may be happy with black dust stained wheels and squeeks, you may even be happy to trade a bit of 'from cold' performance for a pad that can cope better in extremes of heat but many just need the best pad best suited to how they genuinely use their car 95% of the time which for most of us is on the road.
As a final point it's also worth pointing out reputable brake manufacturers do also make trackday pads, I'm talking the likes of Pagid, Brembo & Ferodo here. These brake manufacturers are streets ahead in their quality control and R&D budgets when compared with others like EBC and Hawk ect. However all three reputable brake manufacturers I've mentioned above very clearly state their track day pads are not intended for road use, and there's a very good reason they say this.
If you are still taking issue with any of the above I would strongly encourage you to discuss the topic in more detail with professional brake engineers by calling the technical help teams at Brembo, Ferodo and Pagid.
Ask them to give you their profession take on the 'compound compromise' point, then ask them what compound they would recommend for road use and if their recommendation would be the same for a car driven on the track. Finally ask them to explain exactly why they offer a choice of two different compounds for different types of use and I guarantee you they will come full circle to 'compound compromise' point.
The truth is all engineering is a compromise, tyre compounds, brake compounds, suspension design, engine design ect ect ect... it's all about understanding the design brief and working to a set of clearly defined acceptable compromises... thems the facts and thems the rules every engineer has to work with.
While engineering does improve.... nature, available materials & physics means these facts and rules every designer must work with will never change... engineering is indeed always just a set of managed compromises just as choosing your pad compound will always be dictated by the drivers own set of acceptable compromises he is happy to accept.
Personally I'm a 'road pad from a quality manufacturer' type of guy, because I drive my car on the road
Sorry for offending you, but what you’re saying is plain wrong.
I’ve been using these brakes for a few years now & they are simply amazing-
http://www.clbraking.co.uk/compounds
Have a look & you’ll see they work from cold-hot with a very consistent performance. The UK importer has also owned a TVR Cerbera for ages & is a really knowledgeable guy.
I’ve been using these brakes for a few years now & they are simply amazing-
http://www.clbraking.co.uk/compounds
Have a look & you’ll see they work from cold-hot with a very consistent performance. The UK importer has also owned a TVR Cerbera for ages & is a really knowledgeable guy.
First, go out and give your present set a good hammering to de-glaze and clean up the pads - if the car hasn't been used for a while they will be awful, and the disks will be covered in corrosion.
Next step is try a better set of new pads.
Mintex
Pagid
Ferodo
What you are looking for is a quality fast road pad. I have tried £12.99 Ford Escort pads when I had standard brakes, and they do stop the car in general road use, but require a change of underwear in cases of hard braking. You should be paying £50-100 for a set of front pads.
Yes, I do myself use bigger 324mm brakes and Hawk pads, which are great on the road, but also suit hard braking from 135 mph before cornering on the track days i do. I use my car 80% on the road and 20% on track, and don't want to be swapping pads 12 times a year. I am from the fit and forget school of thinking, and Hawk don't I believe make pads for standard TVR calipers.
But I am well aware that a decent set of pads is more than half the battle, and you shouldn't need bigger brakes for road use only. Just better pads. I have never used EBC pads, but hear more negative than positive comments.
Next step is try a better set of new pads.
Mintex
Pagid
Ferodo
What you are looking for is a quality fast road pad. I have tried £12.99 Ford Escort pads when I had standard brakes, and they do stop the car in general road use, but require a change of underwear in cases of hard braking. You should be paying £50-100 for a set of front pads.
Yes, I do myself use bigger 324mm brakes and Hawk pads, which are great on the road, but also suit hard braking from 135 mph before cornering on the track days i do. I use my car 80% on the road and 20% on track, and don't want to be swapping pads 12 times a year. I am from the fit and forget school of thinking, and Hawk don't I believe make pads for standard TVR calipers.
But I am well aware that a decent set of pads is more than half the battle, and you shouldn't need bigger brakes for road use only. Just better pads. I have never used EBC pads, but hear more negative than positive comments.
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