Chimaera 500 as a track car.
Discussion
I currently have a non pas 500 that I love on the road but I’m thinking about taking it on track a few times a year.
I have a fair bit of track experience but mostly in Caterhams, Lotus Elise’s and Porsche 911’s. How would the Chimaera compare to those?
I saw a nice 4.0 car for sale that had been converted to 5.0L and used for sprinting and had some nice upgrades but I think that it has sold.
What upgrades would you make for track and how have you found running your Chimaera on track?
Thanks
I have a fair bit of track experience but mostly in Caterhams, Lotus Elise’s and Porsche 911’s. How would the Chimaera compare to those?
I saw a nice 4.0 car for sale that had been converted to 5.0L and used for sprinting and had some nice upgrades but I think that it has sold.
What upgrades would you make for track and how have you found running your Chimaera on track?
Thanks
Wish I'd never seen this, it makes my wallet cry!
Your chim could be very competitive on track with the standard engine as long as you upgrade the brakes and suspension.
Of course you will find that on a track, that 5.0 that seems so fast on the road just runs out of steam. It is then time to decide what to do.
With hindsight instead of going down the expensive NA route, (which gives fantastic power across the full rev range) I could have gone, "cheap turbo" but then was then.
Oh, btw, power steering is a must!
As a flavour of what can be done, heres my, "cut and paste" spec.
Engine.
5.5 RV8 built by yours truly.
Top hated large journal block.
Cross bolted,
Special stroker crank,
Cat forged steel H beam rods,
ARP head bolts,
Forged Diamond pistons,
Total Seal gapless rings,
H404 camshaft plus hydraulic lifters,
Yella Terra roller rockers,
JE billet outrigger posts,
ACT Triple plenum and 45mm trumpet base,
Plenum inlet opened out to 95mm,
100mm induction hose,
100mm KN Hiflow filter,
Stage 4 ported big valve heads,
10.5 :1 Comp,
Ported and polished inlet manifold,
30lb Accell Injectors,
JE alternator bracket,
P38 coil pack,
twin flame traps and catch tank fitted,
Magnacor 8mm leads,
McLeod 10.5" twin plate clutch (rated to 800 horses),
Forged lightweight alloy flywheel,
Other stuff.
Aaron alloy radiator,
ACT full set black silicon hoses,
34 row oil cooler with therostatic sandwich plate take off,
ACT S/S complete decatted big bore exhaust manifolds and pipe work,
New Emerald ECU fitted and mapped by Joolz plus new engine harness,
Wideband gauge,
SPA dual digital oil temp and pressure gauge,
Gaz Mono Dampers with Eibach 450/400 Springs,
5 stud conversion,
RL7 wheels, 17" all round with R1Rs for road,
Black RL7 wheels 17" & 18" with R888s for track,
Braided brake hoses,
Tuscan big brake conversion with DS2500 pads,
Thicker 25mm & 22mm ARBs fitted,
Ford Focus RS rear rose joint drop links,
Leven front drop links,
Superflex Polyurethane bushes all round,
TR Lane roll bar,
Converted to electric/hydraulic PS pump,
Converted to Subaru PS rack,
Series 2 Elise seats superbly upholstered in matching leather by Zigga,
4 point harness fitted to drivers seat,
Additional vents cut to front valance,
Carbon fibre front splitter,
QD bonnet hinges,
Additional servo and electric vacuum pump fitted to assist HD clutch,
Additional sound and heat insulation fitted,
Tubular front wishbones fitted to front,
New outriggers fitted in-house,
New diff fitted & Polybushed ,
Gearbox completely overhauled with 5th gear mod.
Your chim could be very competitive on track with the standard engine as long as you upgrade the brakes and suspension.
Of course you will find that on a track, that 5.0 that seems so fast on the road just runs out of steam. It is then time to decide what to do.
With hindsight instead of going down the expensive NA route, (which gives fantastic power across the full rev range) I could have gone, "cheap turbo" but then was then.
Oh, btw, power steering is a must!
As a flavour of what can be done, heres my, "cut and paste" spec.
Engine.
5.5 RV8 built by yours truly.
Top hated large journal block.
Cross bolted,
Special stroker crank,
Cat forged steel H beam rods,
ARP head bolts,
Forged Diamond pistons,
Total Seal gapless rings,
H404 camshaft plus hydraulic lifters,
Yella Terra roller rockers,
JE billet outrigger posts,
ACT Triple plenum and 45mm trumpet base,
Plenum inlet opened out to 95mm,
100mm induction hose,
100mm KN Hiflow filter,
Stage 4 ported big valve heads,
10.5 :1 Comp,
Ported and polished inlet manifold,
30lb Accell Injectors,
JE alternator bracket,
P38 coil pack,
twin flame traps and catch tank fitted,
Magnacor 8mm leads,
McLeod 10.5" twin plate clutch (rated to 800 horses),
Forged lightweight alloy flywheel,
Other stuff.
Aaron alloy radiator,
ACT full set black silicon hoses,
34 row oil cooler with therostatic sandwich plate take off,
ACT S/S complete decatted big bore exhaust manifolds and pipe work,
New Emerald ECU fitted and mapped by Joolz plus new engine harness,
Wideband gauge,
SPA dual digital oil temp and pressure gauge,
Gaz Mono Dampers with Eibach 450/400 Springs,
5 stud conversion,
RL7 wheels, 17" all round with R1Rs for road,
Black RL7 wheels 17" & 18" with R888s for track,
Braided brake hoses,
Tuscan big brake conversion with DS2500 pads,
Thicker 25mm & 22mm ARBs fitted,
Ford Focus RS rear rose joint drop links,
Leven front drop links,
Superflex Polyurethane bushes all round,
TR Lane roll bar,
Converted to electric/hydraulic PS pump,
Converted to Subaru PS rack,
Series 2 Elise seats superbly upholstered in matching leather by Zigga,
4 point harness fitted to drivers seat,
Additional vents cut to front valance,
Carbon fibre front splitter,
QD bonnet hinges,
Additional servo and electric vacuum pump fitted to assist HD clutch,
Additional sound and heat insulation fitted,
Tubular front wishbones fitted to front,
New outriggers fitted in-house,
New diff fitted & Polybushed ,
Gearbox completely overhauled with 5th gear mod.
TVRs are a lot of fun on track. Ultimately, they aren't going to out perform lighter cars with thought out suspension.
Still a lot of fun though. Depends if you 'have' to be the fastest out there.
Suspension revamp - the youngest TVRs are 13-years old now. Geo can be set to optimise track performance. LSD with lower final drive will help.
Roll bar is a must - imho.
Brakes can be improved pretty easily. Fiesta ST callipers up front, vented discs at the rear. New fluid and performance pads.
They can run all day.
Still a lot of fun though. Depends if you 'have' to be the fastest out there.
Suspension revamp - the youngest TVRs are 13-years old now. Geo can be set to optimise track performance. LSD with lower final drive will help.
Roll bar is a must - imho.
Brakes can be improved pretty easily. Fiesta ST callipers up front, vented discs at the rear. New fluid and performance pads.
They can run all day.
As above.
Bigger front brakes and some decent adjustable suspension, with a roll bar to stifien the chassis and provide a bit more protection.
My Chim 500 had no engine mods ,but the handling/braking were far better with the above.
Engine work can come later if you want more power.
I used to have great fun with mine, fling it round the circuit on a track day, soften off the shocks and drive home in relative comfort.
Stil miss mine.
Here's some grainy footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfJTIBHx1h4
Bigger front brakes and some decent adjustable suspension, with a roll bar to stifien the chassis and provide a bit more protection.
My Chim 500 had no engine mods ,but the handling/braking were far better with the above.
Engine work can come later if you want more power.
I used to have great fun with mine, fling it round the circuit on a track day, soften off the shocks and drive home in relative comfort.
Stil miss mine.
Here's some grainy footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfJTIBHx1h4
Thanks, it all sounds encouraging.
I’m not bothered about being the fastest on track, I do like having a nice balanced car that moves around underneath me though.
I was thinking of fitting AD08r’s on standard sized wheels.
Are Nitrons considered to be a good option for suspension? Which antiroll bar is used? I’m on the original springs and dampers so these need replacing.
Brakes, Fiesta St with good fluid, braided hoses and pads up to the job?
I don’t want to get carried away with mods, I’d rather have a trip to Spa than have more horsepower but I have been looking at forced induction. The slippery slope!
I’m not bothered about being the fastest on track, I do like having a nice balanced car that moves around underneath me though.
I was thinking of fitting AD08r’s on standard sized wheels.
Are Nitrons considered to be a good option for suspension? Which antiroll bar is used? I’m on the original springs and dampers so these need replacing.
Brakes, Fiesta St with good fluid, braided hoses and pads up to the job?
I don’t want to get carried away with mods, I’d rather have a trip to Spa than have more horsepower but I have been looking at forced induction. The slippery slope!
Good reasoning.
Brakes is a must and you seem to have a good set so just take spare pads for front and rear, maybe a slightly more aggressive compound as road pads will suffer fade more.
Good fluid as it gets hot as you probably know.
I found the Tvr to be a great track car if a bit expensive compared to a Saxo
Great fun, chuckable, move around under you with progressive info coming through for both understeer and oversteer. Dance on the edge, muscle them around a bit and they positively love it.
If your serious you need a roll hoop to be sensible but it didn’t stop me. I ran roof up so you have some protection from the cars own hoop hopefully.
If you want to get funky and really competitive around much more modern machinery a bit of camber change on the day etc would make the car proper fast with lots more potential grip.
In the dry on a grippy surface they pull good G’s in the turns and you know your doing it
Brakes is a must and you seem to have a good set so just take spare pads for front and rear, maybe a slightly more aggressive compound as road pads will suffer fade more.
Good fluid as it gets hot as you probably know.
I found the Tvr to be a great track car if a bit expensive compared to a Saxo
Great fun, chuckable, move around under you with progressive info coming through for both understeer and oversteer. Dance on the edge, muscle them around a bit and they positively love it.
If your serious you need a roll hoop to be sensible but it didn’t stop me. I ran roof up so you have some protection from the cars own hoop hopefully.
If you want to get funky and really competitive around much more modern machinery a bit of camber change on the day etc would make the car proper fast with lots more potential grip.
In the dry on a grippy surface they pull good G’s in the turns and you know your doing it
Brakes and suspension as everyone has said, but do get the car properly four wheel aligned and add a bit of negative camber on the front.
If you upgrade the pads do change the brake fluid for high temp and fresh fluid - it is quite possible to boil the brakes and find you have none at 120mph.
Been there, changed the underwear, as Phazed will remember (Hullavington?)
Yes, AD08Rs are a good track and road tyre, probably one of the best all purpose tyres out there.
Finally, can we please clear up a possible confusion between anti-roll bars in the suspension, and roll-over protection for your head, often referred to as a roll over bar or hoop.
Yes, you can strengthen the anti-roll bars, but it is a long way down your list running on standard TVR power.
But if you are going to continue to do track days in your TVR, then in my opinion you should put a value greater than 50p on the safety of your head.
Ok, so you are from the M58 area of the north , so perhaps not
........but all the same do please consider some roll-over protection.
It only takes being flipped over by another out of control car, or a fast sideways entry to a gravel trap, and you could be inverted. That pram hood, even if up, won't help.
If you upgrade the pads do change the brake fluid for high temp and fresh fluid - it is quite possible to boil the brakes and find you have none at 120mph.
Been there, changed the underwear, as Phazed will remember (Hullavington?)
Yes, AD08Rs are a good track and road tyre, probably one of the best all purpose tyres out there.
Finally, can we please clear up a possible confusion between anti-roll bars in the suspension, and roll-over protection for your head, often referred to as a roll over bar or hoop.
Yes, you can strengthen the anti-roll bars, but it is a long way down your list running on standard TVR power.
But if you are going to continue to do track days in your TVR, then in my opinion you should put a value greater than 50p on the safety of your head.
Ok, so you are from the M58 area of the north , so perhaps not
........but all the same do please consider some roll-over protection. It only takes being flipped over by another out of control car, or a fast sideways entry to a gravel trap, and you could be inverted. That pram hood, even if up, won't help.
Edited by QBee on Tuesday 26th March 13:30
450Nick said:
phazed said:
QD bonnet hinges
What is this...??? I'm interested in a better method of hinging and locking the bonnet...Remove one Allen head bolts on each side and the bonnet slides off out of the hinges and will replace in exactly the same position instantly.
http://vtautomotive.com/shop/tvr/cerbera-s6/tvr-ce...
QBee said:
(lots of good stuff and)
Finally, can we please clear up a possible confusion between anti-roll bars in the suspension, and roll-over protection for your head, often referred to as a roll over bar or hoop.
The Americans are often guilty of murdering spoken English, but I find their alternative term 'sway bar' for what we call an 'anti-roll bar' removes all ambiguity. Finally, can we please clear up a possible confusion between anti-roll bars in the suspension, and roll-over protection for your head, often referred to as a roll over bar or hoop.
But only if it's not made of aloooominum.
I have to question my good friend Phazed as to why he sees power steering as essential on a track day?
I will have to bow to his superior knowledge, but to my way of thinking power steering is only important for low speed manouvering, and the extra feel you get from non-PAS at high speed would seem to be a positive rather than a negative?
The exception would be in a car with F1 slicks on the front and a steering wheel the size of a saucer.
I will have to bow to his superior knowledge, but to my way of thinking power steering is only important for low speed manouvering, and the extra feel you get from non-PAS at high speed would seem to be a positive rather than a negative?
The exception would be in a car with F1 slicks on the front and a steering wheel the size of a saucer.
QBee said:
I have to question my good friend Phazed as to why he sees power steering as essential on a track day?
I will have to bow to his superior knowledge, but to my way of thinking power steering is only important for low speed manouvering, and the extra feel you get from non-PAS at high speed would seem to be a positive rather than a negative?
The exception would be in a car with F1 slicks on the front and a steering wheel the size of a saucer.
Apart from the overriding fact that the non-power assisted cars are awful to drive, (yes, my personal opinion).I will have to bow to his superior knowledge, but to my way of thinking power steering is only important for low speed manouvering, and the extra feel you get from non-PAS at high speed would seem to be a positive rather than a negative?
The exception would be in a car with F1 slicks on the front and a steering wheel the size of a saucer.
Going back to several years ago when I had a one-to-one day with a race instructor, (who still did very well in racing). He was teaching me in my old 4.6 non PS car.
In his words, "the car brakes, goes well and handles pretty competently but the steering is bloody awful. It is so heavy and dull that you cannot put in corrections quickly enough.
He then proceeded to lose the backend on several occasions and tried to catch it and get it back on course. He said that the steering was so heavy that he could not correct quickly enough.
He stated that if I was going to put any more money into the car, forget about more power and just fit power steering which is what I did.
Yours has PS hasn't it Anthony?
spot on sir. My griff was non PAS when i bought it which i thought would be ok for sprinting but boy was i wrong. i very nearly stuck in a barrier/hedge/ditch in the first month of owning it quite a few times because the steering was so heavy and slow to react ( it has more turns lock to lock than a PAS rack) and i just could not balance it in corners on the throttle. I also could not get over how poor the standard non PAS rack system was compared to my previous cerb and 400SE. Anyway a saxo system and a standard PAS rack soon cured that.
having said it the non PAS system is fine if you just want to burble around the roads gently on a sunday.
having said it the non PAS system is fine if you just want to burble around the roads gently on a sunday.
phazed said:
proceeded to lose the backend on several occasions and tried to catch it and get it back on course. He said that the steering was so heavy that he could not correct quickly enough.
I agree; I attribute this to my one & only incident in my Griff whilst hillclimbing & sprinting it- I was coming out of ‘Pardon’ hairpin at Prescott accelerating hard & the car snapped very sideways which I corrected but then was unable to get lock quick on enough & a trip to the grass followed.Having said that, the steering feel with a manual rack has also served well too- the steering feel is very good at telling you what is going on at the front end. Think on balance I’d stay with the manual rack.
jesfirth said:
spot on sir. My griff was non PAS when i bought it which i thought would be ok for sprinting but boy was i wrong. i very nearly stuck in a barrier/hedge/ditch in the first month of owning it quite a few times because the steering was so heavy and slow to react ( it has more turns lock to lock than a PAS rack) and i just could not balance it in corners on the throttle. I also could not get over how poor the standard non PAS rack system was compared to my previous cerb and 400SE. Anyway a saxo system and a standard PAS rack soon cured that.
having said it the non PAS system is fine if you just want to burble around the roads gently on a sunday.
At last, a sensible person.having said it the non PAS system is fine if you just want to burble around the roads gently on a sunday.
All those that say non PS is best are just wrong. Watch any 5th Gear/Top Gear track antics. When the rear steps out, they wiz the wheel round on oppo in a split second, that just doesn't happen with non PS.
As you were.....
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