Outrigger Protector Options
Discussion
Hi all,
So it looks like the body will be coming off my Chimaera in the next month or so for new outriggers and a general chassis refresh, while a 2k epoxy mastic wet paint system will be used which is is pretty much bullet proof in my experience (especially compared with powder coat) it seems to me a set of outrigger protectors would be a good idea too.
The best outrigger protectors I've seen are these laser cut stainless steel ones from Peter Essling, I believe he started out making them for the Cerbera...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Then progressed to creating sets for the Chimaera sold as a group buy through FB.
Its clear the lion's share of the outrigger corrosion problem our cars suffer from comes from three contributing factors:
1. The poor finish originally applied by TVR
2. Impact damage from stones chipping the powder coat and breeching the surface protection
3. Road muck/leaf mulch also thrown up by the front wheels that gets trapped between the body and outrigger corners which holds moisture greatly accelerating corrosion
A 2k wet paint system will massively improve on TVR's powder coating efforts, even my better 1996 silver grey finish (it's done 23 years after all), but a set of good outrigger protectors/shields would go a long way towards solving the stone chipping and trapped damp road debris issues too.
I've messaged Peter to see if he has any left over from the last group buy, but while I'm waiting for him to respond I wonder if there are any other options available?
Thanks, Dave.
So it looks like the body will be coming off my Chimaera in the next month or so for new outriggers and a general chassis refresh, while a 2k epoxy mastic wet paint system will be used which is is pretty much bullet proof in my experience (especially compared with powder coat) it seems to me a set of outrigger protectors would be a good idea too.
The best outrigger protectors I've seen are these laser cut stainless steel ones from Peter Essling, I believe he started out making them for the Cerbera...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Then progressed to creating sets for the Chimaera sold as a group buy through FB.
Its clear the lion's share of the outrigger corrosion problem our cars suffer from comes from three contributing factors:
1. The poor finish originally applied by TVR
2. Impact damage from stones chipping the powder coat and breeching the surface protection
3. Road muck/leaf mulch also thrown up by the front wheels that gets trapped between the body and outrigger corners which holds moisture greatly accelerating corrosion
A 2k wet paint system will massively improve on TVR's powder coating efforts, even my better 1996 silver grey finish (it's done 23 years after all), but a set of good outrigger protectors/shields would go a long way towards solving the stone chipping and trapped damp road debris issues too.
I've messaged Peter to see if he has any left over from the last group buy, but while I'm waiting for him to respond I wonder if there are any other options available?
Thanks, Dave.
With you going down the epoxy 2 pack paint system, then no other protection should be required.
I am almost 10 years on since my body lift/ outrigger replacement, and full 2 pack chassis paint and it looks as good as new.
The only thing I do is inspect over the winter and touch up/re-paint where required.
I do use it during the winter months.
I keep the car taxed all year, so I can use on cold crisp days in the winter. I did sorn it for 6 months of the year, but I think its better to take the car out for a
blast rather than start it up every few weeks
I am almost 10 years on since my body lift/ outrigger replacement, and full 2 pack chassis paint and it looks as good as new.
The only thing I do is inspect over the winter and touch up/re-paint where required.
I do use it during the winter months.
I keep the car taxed all year, so I can use on cold crisp days in the winter. I did sorn it for 6 months of the year, but I think its better to take the car out for a
blast rather than start it up every few weeks
I have wrapped my outriggers (painted) with Denso Tape - a grease impregnated cloth tape that the Utilities companies wrap their steel pipes before laying in the ground. Horrible stuff to handle as you have to get rof of the gloves and any clothing that the tape transfers the grease to. BUT it works.
TJC46 said:
With you going down the epoxy 2 pack paint system, then no other protection should be required, I am almost 10 years on since my body lift/ outrigger replacement, and full 2 pack chassis paint and it looks as good as new.
You're right, I'm certain of that Thomas 
I've never been a fan of powder coat which in many ways is just a wrap that never really truly chemically bonds to the substrate, this poor bond and the natural thermal expansion/contraction of steel is why it chips, cracks, and peels then lets water under it which is when the real fun begins
On the other hand I've seen truly amazing results over the years from 2k epoxy wet paint systems... especially the marine industry products from Jotun
, here's my favoured system....1. Jotun Penguard HB two pack epoxy zinc phosphate primer - In 'Red Oxide'
2. Jotun Jotamastic 87 two pack epoxy top coat - In 'Aluminium' which is a silver/grey & almost identical to my original powder coat
The car will receive a new set of outriggers in thicker wall seamless tube which in itself knocks the tube originally used by TVR into a cocked hat, I've also elected to go the body off rout as it gives unparalleled access for welding and pre-paint prep.
Outrigger protectors may be overkill but Peter Essling has just come back to me to say he has one last set of his laser cut stainless shields left (as shown above), the way I see it given what I'm investing in the chassis restoration they seem like a very good value for money additional line of defence.
I've agreed to collect them from Peter in a weeks time as he's not that far from me, his correctly formed and laser cut stainless outrigger shields protecting my new 2k zinc phosphate primed and 2k Jotamastic 87 top coated outriggers fabricated from thicker wall seamless tube should mean my body off chassis restoration investment will only need doing once in my lifetime.
Our cars seem to have built up a terrible reputation for chassis corrosion but to be fair to TVR the silver/grey finish they used on the Chimaera chassis from 93 to 96 was at least primed and properly baked, unlike the dreadful white finish they applied direct to steel from 97 on
My 1996 Chimaera chassis has done 23 years and while taking the body off will reveal all it probably just needs the outriggers replacing and all the chassis welds dressed, primed and painted which TVR never did. This is perfectly acceptable in my mind especially when compared with something like a 1996 Mazda MX5 that would very likely need a lot more than a few tubes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAzzykUs1sE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7DjZ5hvEOU
Have you sourced your paint yet ?
If not email me to discuss, it could be of benefit to you. Are you doing the painting, and is it by hand or spray.
We use International marine coatings, a 2 pack epoxy system. Typical coat system as follows:
1.Interplus 356 zinc phosphate primer.
2. Interprime 670 HS intermediate coat
3.Interthane 990 gloss finish coat
The chassis came back after blasting with a base primer, spray applied straight after blasting/cleaning by the blast company.
I then applied 1 x coat 356,[dark grey] then 1 x coat 670 [light grey]
using different shades ensures you can actually see full coverage with each coat.
I repeated this again, so 5 coats of paint up to now.
Finally finished off with the 990 gloss coat in very bright red......... 6 coats and counting......and finally clear lacquer coat. This one being mainly sacrificial
for stone chips etc.
If not email me to discuss, it could be of benefit to you. Are you doing the painting, and is it by hand or spray.
We use International marine coatings, a 2 pack epoxy system. Typical coat system as follows:
1.Interplus 356 zinc phosphate primer.
2. Interprime 670 HS intermediate coat
3.Interthane 990 gloss finish coat
The chassis came back after blasting with a base primer, spray applied straight after blasting/cleaning by the blast company.
I then applied 1 x coat 356,[dark grey] then 1 x coat 670 [light grey]
using different shades ensures you can actually see full coverage with each coat.
I repeated this again, so 5 coats of paint up to now.
Finally finished off with the 990 gloss coat in very bright red......... 6 coats and counting......and finally clear lacquer coat. This one being mainly sacrificial
for stone chips etc.
TJC46 said:
Have you sourced your paint yet ?
If not email me to discuss, it could be of benefit to you. Are you doing the painting, and is it by hand or spray.
We use International marine coatings, a 2 pack epoxy system. Typical coat system as follows:
1.Interplus 356 zinc phosphate primer.
2. Interprime 670 HS intermediate coat
3.Interthane 990 gloss finish coat
The chassis came back after blasting with a base primer, spray applied straight after blasting/cleaning by the blast company.
I then applied 1 x coat 356,[dark grey] then 1 x coat 670 [light grey]
using different shades ensures you can actually see full coverage with each coat.
I repeated this again, so 5 coats of paint up to now.
Finally finished off with the 990 gloss coat in very bright red......... 6 coats and counting......and finally clear lacquer coat. This one being mainly sacrificial
for stone chips etc.
Thanks Thomas, we are clearly on the same page If not email me to discuss, it could be of benefit to you. Are you doing the painting, and is it by hand or spray.
We use International marine coatings, a 2 pack epoxy system. Typical coat system as follows:
1.Interplus 356 zinc phosphate primer.
2. Interprime 670 HS intermediate coat
3.Interthane 990 gloss finish coat
The chassis came back after blasting with a base primer, spray applied straight after blasting/cleaning by the blast company.
I then applied 1 x coat 356,[dark grey] then 1 x coat 670 [light grey]
using different shades ensures you can actually see full coverage with each coat.
I repeated this again, so 5 coats of paint up to now.
Finally finished off with the 990 gloss coat in very bright red......... 6 coats and counting......and finally clear lacquer coat. This one being mainly sacrificial
for stone chips etc.
I haven't purchased my coatings yet but as I'm sure you know International Paints and Jotun are the two industry leading competitors in the world of 2k epoxy marine paint systems, both companies have an excellent reputation.
I like the Jotun Penguard HB two pack epoxy zinc phosphate primer which will be in 'Red Oxide' then top coated in Jotun Jotamastic 87 two pack epoxy mastic in 'Aluminium' which is a flat silver/grey finish & close to my original powder coat, as you say my colour choices has been selected to ensure certain coverage between the primer and top coats.
As the name suggests the Jotamastic 87 is a high solids epoxy mastic, I like epoxy mastics top coats as they're super flexible making them far more resistant to impact damage than regular 2k epoxy paints. Saying that if the products you used are the same spec as my favoured Jotun brand I'd be be more than happy switching to International Paints as I'm aware their coatings are first class quality.
None of these proper industrial marine grade epoxy pain systems are cheap so if you have a source to keep costs down I'm all ears
Thanks again, Dave.
Hi Anthony, in a few weeks time I'll be dropping the car off with Alex Wheatley in Sheffield .
https://www.alwautomotive.com/copy-of-porsche
Since gaining his degree in motorsport technology Alex has subsequently become well known on the TVR race circuit having served as Jason Clegg's race mechanic (Str8Six), so he comes with good credentials.
I chose Alex because for the same money others are charging just to replace the outriggers with the body on he completely removes it, this means no holes cut in the floor, unrivalled access for a full chassis inspection, and allows for far easier 360 degree outrigger welds.
Alex has quite a few TVR body off chassis restorations under his belt now from Cerberas to Chimaeras, he also uses epoxy paint which I'm upgrading further at my own cost to my favoured Jotun products listed above, the body will be completely removed and the rolling chassis fully degreased as it currently carries a thick coating of protective Dinitrol.
From what I can see my 1996 chassis remains largely in very good condition and probably due to it benefiting from the far superior and pre-primed silver/grey finish, however there is some light surface rust around the welds as TVR clearly never prepared them correctly before they applied the powder coat.
My opinion is the chassis can only be properly assessed with the body off, those welds will be cleaned up and any lose powder coat removed. New outriggers will be properly 360 degree welded in and the whole lot primed in Jotun zinc phosphate 2k epoxy primer and top coated 2k epoxy mastic.
To be clear the running gear will remain so I'm under no illusions what I've gone for is here somewhere between a full chassis strip and the common body on outrigger replacement. Essentially I get many of the benefits of a body off job for the same money most charge for a body on outrigger replacement, the way I see it what Alex Wheatley is offering represents an excellent value for money way to give the chassis another 20 plus years and all painted in 2k epoxy which I far prefer to powder coat.
Dave.
https://www.alwautomotive.com/copy-of-porsche
Since gaining his degree in motorsport technology Alex has subsequently become well known on the TVR race circuit having served as Jason Clegg's race mechanic (Str8Six), so he comes with good credentials.
I chose Alex because for the same money others are charging just to replace the outriggers with the body on he completely removes it, this means no holes cut in the floor, unrivalled access for a full chassis inspection, and allows for far easier 360 degree outrigger welds.
Alex has quite a few TVR body off chassis restorations under his belt now from Cerberas to Chimaeras, he also uses epoxy paint which I'm upgrading further at my own cost to my favoured Jotun products listed above, the body will be completely removed and the rolling chassis fully degreased as it currently carries a thick coating of protective Dinitrol.
From what I can see my 1996 chassis remains largely in very good condition and probably due to it benefiting from the far superior and pre-primed silver/grey finish, however there is some light surface rust around the welds as TVR clearly never prepared them correctly before they applied the powder coat.
My opinion is the chassis can only be properly assessed with the body off, those welds will be cleaned up and any lose powder coat removed. New outriggers will be properly 360 degree welded in and the whole lot primed in Jotun zinc phosphate 2k epoxy primer and top coated 2k epoxy mastic.
To be clear the running gear will remain so I'm under no illusions what I've gone for is here somewhere between a full chassis strip and the common body on outrigger replacement. Essentially I get many of the benefits of a body off job for the same money most charge for a body on outrigger replacement, the way I see it what Alex Wheatley is offering represents an excellent value for money way to give the chassis another 20 plus years and all painted in 2k epoxy which I far prefer to powder coat.
Dave.
ChimpOnGas said:
Hi Anthony, in a few weeks time I'll be dropping the car off with Alex Wheatley in Sheffield .
Is it a complete chassis strip, because if it is you are in the best place to be chassis wise. I apologise as i have forgotten the name, but there is a shot blasting firm in Sheffield that R.T Racing use for chassis blasting.[contact them for more info]
I took my chassis there and i was about to explain what i wanted, [blast and paint wise] when the guy there said "we do these all the time for R.T Racing"
They made a first class job of it.
First pic was the chassis after welding, 2nd pic shows the chassis after blast and paint coat application straight after.
Given I have the better silver/grey chassis finish I'm expecting the full degrease of my chassis after the body is removed to reveal surface rusty weld areas and 90% sound powder coat much the same as yours below 
Obviously a full chassis strip and blast is the preferred option but does add considerably to the cost and may be largely unnecessary as in the last 10 years of owning the car I've maliciously kept on top of all the chassis consumables such as fuel lines, suspension bushes, wishbones, engine mounts, brake lines, diff bushes ect ect.
I'm confident with new outriggers in far superior thicker wall seamless tube if the areas of corrosion around the welds are de-rusted and prepared correctly before applying a 2k epoxy zinc phosphate primer then the 2k epoxy mastic top coat the overall results will be extremely long lasting, for the price I've been quoted that seems like excellent value for money to me.
Obviously a full chassis strip and blast is the preferred option but does add considerably to the cost and may be largely unnecessary as in the last 10 years of owning the car I've maliciously kept on top of all the chassis consumables such as fuel lines, suspension bushes, wishbones, engine mounts, brake lines, diff bushes ect ect.
I'm confident with new outriggers in far superior thicker wall seamless tube if the areas of corrosion around the welds are de-rusted and prepared correctly before applying a 2k epoxy zinc phosphate primer then the 2k epoxy mastic top coat the overall results will be extremely long lasting, for the price I've been quoted that seems like excellent value for money to me.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Tuesday 29th October 07:50
there are just 3 proper ways to achieve a longlasting result:
-if the chassis needs to be restored: do it better than the facory--> galvanize it
- avoid driving in winter when salt has applied on the roads already.
- clean the chassis regulary with water, especially when driving muddy / dirty roads (which are the majority in UK, exempt motorways)
look at cars which have been just used in summer, as 2nd or 3rd car, especially in countries like spain, france, germany....you will find a lot of cars which still run on their 1st outriggers and the factory powder-coating (even it was really lousy) is still intact....guess why?
-if the chassis needs to be restored: do it better than the facory--> galvanize it
- avoid driving in winter when salt has applied on the roads already.
- clean the chassis regulary with water, especially when driving muddy / dirty roads (which are the majority in UK, exempt motorways)
look at cars which have been just used in summer, as 2nd or 3rd car, especially in countries like spain, france, germany....you will find a lot of cars which still run on their 1st outriggers and the factory powder-coating (even it was really lousy) is still intact....guess why?
It's a car, if I have to baby it its the wrong car for me.
I pay for tax, insurance and maintenance so if its not earning its keep its a pointless object just sat in my garage costing me money.
I've had 10 years out of it so far and I fully expect it to give me another 10 years service and still be a car with good life still left in it for the new owner, anything less is simply unacceptable!
I pay for tax, insurance and maintenance so if its not earning its keep its a pointless object just sat in my garage costing me money.
I've had 10 years out of it so far and I fully expect it to give me another 10 years service and still be a car with good life still left in it for the new owner, anything less is simply unacceptable!
LLantrisant said:
there are just 3 proper ways to achieve a longlasting result:
-if the chassis needs to be restored: do it better than the facory--> galvanize it
- avoid driving in winter when salt has applied on the roads already.
- clean the chassis regulary with water, especially when driving muddy / dirty roads (which are the majority in UK, exempt motorways)
look at cars which have been just used in summer, as 2nd or 3rd car, especially in countries like spain, france, germany....you will find a lot of cars which still run on their 1st outriggers and the factory powder-coating (even it was really lousy) is still intact....guess why?
Good post
Mud hardens and keeps the damp in around the joints
Cleaning is a must
-if the chassis needs to be restored: do it better than the facory--> galvanize it
- avoid driving in winter when salt has applied on the roads already.
- clean the chassis regulary with water, especially when driving muddy / dirty roads (which are the majority in UK, exempt motorways)
look at cars which have been just used in summer, as 2nd or 3rd car, especially in countries like spain, france, germany....you will find a lot of cars which still run on their 1st outriggers and the factory powder-coating (even it was really lousy) is still intact....guess why?
Good post
Mud hardens and keeps the damp in around the joints
Cleaning is a must
cavalrystu said:
Mine is still on factory outriggers.... the tip is, don't get it wet!
I'm sorry but for me this is as ridiculous as saying... "I'm still on my original discs & pads.... the tip is, don't brake!"What's the point in having a car you're too afraid to take out in a bit of rain, we live in the UK for heavens sake!
Drive it, break it, wear it out, fix it, but above all enjoy it... anything less is disrespectful to what Peter Wheeler created for us.
A TVR is a pure driver's car, being afraid to drive it whenever I feel like it just because a few chassis tubes may go rusty a little sooner is a totally preposterous, illogical and alien concept to me
Do you keep your shoes in the cupboard just so you don't wear them out walking in them?
Nuts
It seems pretty clear there are some funny old people creeping into this community of late
Its comically saddening to see a perfectly reasonable discussion surrounding the freshening up of a long standing TVR owner's much loved and used 23 year old Chimaera chassis and the useful additional protection afforded by outrigger protectors has given a platform to a few special types who believe the solution to the inevitable degradation of a ferrous metal structure designed to be used in all weathers is to never drive it in the wet
More than any other marque TVRs have traditionally attracted a community of true petrolheads who actually drive their cars rather than treating them as a museum piece, perhaps the old guard is dying off to make way for a new breed metrosexula hydrophobic garage queen posers?
For these types may I suggest FaceBook, its a great place to show pictures of your TVR in the garage under its slinky figure hugging TVR logo embroidered car cover and the ideal platform to discuss your latest favourite car polish. Hopefully this will leave the PH TVR forum free for those of us who like to discuss the technical challenges and solutions to maintaining and improving our cars so we can continue use them what we bought our TVRs for.... ie driving and enjoying!
Its comically saddening to see a perfectly reasonable discussion surrounding the freshening up of a long standing TVR owner's much loved and used 23 year old Chimaera chassis and the useful additional protection afforded by outrigger protectors has given a platform to a few special types who believe the solution to the inevitable degradation of a ferrous metal structure designed to be used in all weathers is to never drive it in the wet
More than any other marque TVRs have traditionally attracted a community of true petrolheads who actually drive their cars rather than treating them as a museum piece, perhaps the old guard is dying off to make way for a new breed metrosexula hydrophobic garage queen posers?
For these types may I suggest FaceBook, its a great place to show pictures of your TVR in the garage under its slinky figure hugging TVR logo embroidered car cover and the ideal platform to discuss your latest favourite car polish. Hopefully this will leave the PH TVR forum free for those of us who like to discuss the technical challenges and solutions to maintaining and improving our cars so we can continue use them what we bought our TVRs for.... ie driving and enjoying!
^^^^^^ 
Continuing the theme of out rigger protectors, you basically have to close off the front corner section around the diagonal down tube etc then add about 8 inches of something along the main tube underneath. Add a few weep holes so any ingress can escape and allows air to dry the area. This stops most of the road crud hitting that first 6 inches and probably would deflect most other wash and muck away until at least half way along riggers. It’s nearly always the first half that dissolve.
Coated properly I’d say riggers could last 15/20 years this way and we could all drive without care or fear as we’d all like to drive em more surely.
Continuing the theme of out rigger protectors, you basically have to close off the front corner section around the diagonal down tube etc then add about 8 inches of something along the main tube underneath. Add a few weep holes so any ingress can escape and allows air to dry the area. This stops most of the road crud hitting that first 6 inches and probably would deflect most other wash and muck away until at least half way along riggers. It’s nearly always the first half that dissolve.
Coated properly I’d say riggers could last 15/20 years this way and we could all drive without care or fear as we’d all like to drive em more surely.
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