Problems after layup

[fausTVR]

Hi all, been out of the Tvr picture for a while with the car having had an extended rest for a year thanks to one thing and another. I keep it in the barn, up on stands with covers over, battery disconnected but trickled now and then.
Yesterday I went to fire it up for the first time but got the popular old 'fuel pump not priming' issue, engine turns over fine though. Today after ringing several local motor factors for the Bosch fuel pump relay (to no avail) I managed to get my hands on an equivalent one by ERA at £15. I fitted that and yes pump is now priming, turns over but no fire up, a smell of fuel I put down to cranking it over several times. As I was pondering I heard a dripping, looked under the car and petrol was dripping off the bell housing onto some newspaper.
Last year had bought some Gates fuel pipe (1 meter of) but could only manage to do the short bit by the O/S rocker cover. The bit I couldn't figure out was the section going over the top of the bell housing, the join between copper and flexi is right on top! So I left that intending for the pros to deal with that later.
My question is if my immobiliser is playing a part here (all original Meta) does it cut supply to the starter or the injectors? I know it also cuts the fuel pump as a second measure. It's just that there is no hint of firing and it's always started on the button (apart from one layup seeing the coil die, which I replaced with a Bosch). I've spent some hours on the PH searches and people usually say the immob cuts the starter. I'm not too keen on checking for a spark with a fuel leak but I could take the spade off the pump I suppose.
Sorry for the long ramble. Any thoughts chaps?

[Loubaruch]

Normally the Meta immobiliser cuts 2 circuits directly:

The starter solenoid

The ignition amplifier

And indirectly:

The immobilised Ignition +ve feed to the ignition amplifier also feeds +12 volts to the ECU pin 19 and then the fuel pump relay pin 86 so effectively immobilising the fuel pump

Edited by Loubaruch on Tuesday 1st September 21:41

[fausTVR]

Loubaruch said:

Normally the Meta immobiliser cuts 2 circuits directly:

The starter solenoid

The ignition amplifier

And indirectly:

The immobilised Ignition +ve feed to the ignition amplifier also feeds +12 volts to the ECU pin 19 and then the fuel pump relay pin 86 so effectively immobilising the fuel pump

Edited by Loubaruch on Tuesday 1st September 21:41

Thanks, so by that logic, if I have pump feed (which I do) I must have ignition feed too, or at least as far as the immobiliser is concerned. I'm now facing a re-pipe of the fuel system, it's all 23 years old so not before time. There was me thinking I could just turn the key and have a few weeks use before winter.

[Loubaruch]

Yes indeed, if your wiring is the same as mine (not guaranteed it is a TVR after all), I would say that your immobiliser is ok but you do need to check that +12 v ignition is arriving at the Ignition amplifier. Also that your injectors are being switched on.

After each winter layup, when first started fuel used to pour out of the fuel hose joint above the gearbox on my Griffith. That is why I decided to get rid of the copper/rubber hose joints and run the high pressure lines completely in braided Cohline fuel hose. That was 5 years ago and no problems since. Some owners prefer to keep copper lines which is understandable as they should be more rugged, but to me the achillies heel of the system was the copper /rubber joints that failed frequently. You take your choice!

Edited by Loubaruch on Wednesday 2nd September 18:46

[fausTVR]

I've ordered 25ft of 5/16 copper line and 2m of Cohline high spec flexi pipe from Merlin Motorsport, proper clips and a flaring tool. Not looking forward to the job but I'm going to minimise the amount of flexi pipe as far as I can. I suppose I need to remove the plenum to replace the short bit behind it. It will all be a learning curve for me.

[Loubaruch]

From memory I did not remove the Plenum chamber.

This may be helpful:

http://www.bertram-hill.com/replacing-the-fuel-lin...

Flaring the copper tube will definitely help, the original copper lines on my car were not flared and even with two fuel clips still leaked.

For a decent seal use proper fuel clips not jubilee clips to secure the rubber tube.

Best of luck!,

Edited by Loubaruch on Wednesday 2nd September 21:50

[Belle427]

Try to bring the copper lines further into the engine bay for ease of Inspection /change in the future.
The job is much easier with plenum removed but this only takes 10 mins.

[fausTVR]

Loubaruch thanks for all your help. that link is useful, cheers.

Belle427, I saw your mods in the search and I want to pretty much copy that, looks ideal and it make you wonder what TVR were thinking with their awkward original set up?

I've got some time off work ATM, hence my uncovering the TIV and landing in all this. My usual MO is to now prevaricate around the bush with self distraction techniques, but the lines should arrive here any minute so my excuses are falling away.

[Belle427]

My only concern would be the stress on the copper if the body did have any movement but I don't think it does on these cars.

[fausTVR]

Belle427 yes ISWYM, but I think as long as the fixing points along the lines' length are a reasonable distance apart and they give slightly, ie with zip ties and rubber tape around the line at these places, there should be plenty of leeway for flex, most of which is at the engine end.

[Zener]

Not an issue how often does the clutch pipe fail? and look at the movement they have to deal with you need movement in very short sections of pipe for failure/fracture IME

[Steve_D]

If you are going to replace the copper lines as well as the rubber then re-route the feed copper line.
Quite why TVR came down from the filter in rubber then cooper along the N/N lower chassis then up over the bell housing (completely unsupported) then into rubber.
I run a short rubber from the filter then into copper just forward of the diff. The copper then runs across the chassis and along the O/S top rail along with the return line. From that top rail you can run the copper as high as you like up the bulkhead along with the brake pipes.

If you wanted to change the rubber again the easiest is the cut a number of the cable ties down the top rail and gently bend the pipes down so you can access the pipe clips.

If you do this make sure you label the pipes flow/return.

Steve

[fausTVR]

Zener said:

Not an issue how often does the clutch pipe fail? and look at the movement they have to deal with you need movement in very short sections of pipe for failure/fracture IME

Quite so, from memory they usually have the old loop-de-loop in them near the slave?

[Zener]

fausTVR said:

Zener said:

Not an issue how often does the clutch pipe fail? and look at the movement they have to deal with you need movement in very short sections of pipe for failure/fracture IME

Quite so, from memory they usually have the old loop-de-loop in them near the slave?

They do indeed a kind of stress relief , I use Steve D's method for changing the front hoses be suprised how much than can help inc removing the old one's move hose hose clip and then out with a razor blade to cut old hoses in one angled slash let the blade do the work and dont push and mark the copper this saves unduly flexing and stressing said solid pipe work on removal

[fausTVR]

So working at my usual speed when I've too much time on my hands, just been under there for a recc'y and wow there's less room than I remember, that filter looks fun up there. I was hoping not to have to drop the exhaust but looks likely. Got distracted by a trapped Dragonfly in the shed, I took a little vid of his rescue and release, the ungrateful bugger. The battery must be huge on those things.

[Steve_D]

fausTVR said:

.........just been under there for a recc'y and wow there's less room than I remember, that filter looks fun up there................

Oooh the joy of petrol in your armpit. I know it all too well.

Steve

[fausTVR]

Steve_D said:

fausTVR said:

.........just been under there for a recc'y and wow there's less room than I remember, that filter looks fun up there................

Oooh the joy of petrol in your armpit. I know it all too well.

Steve

Splash it all over, 'enry!

Edited by fausTVR on Thursday 3rd September 22:10

[fausTVR]

For anyone interested, that replacement fuel pump relay was made by ERA, part no. is 450 22 0610 from Eurocar Parts at £15. The other alternative was by Cambier (not sure of spelling or pt no.) which are around £28 each.

I'm told Bosch have largely withdrawn their stock from the UK for brexit reasons, hence why I had no luck finding a local Bosch part.

[Zener]

Seek and you will find https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1409468340