Another slightly different PAS question

[chassis 33]

If I want to convert from PAS to manual on the Chim racer, I remove the PAS pump and plumbing, put on a shorter serpentine belt, then swap the rack for a manual one? Is it that simple?

Alternatively can I keep the PAS rack, and just remove the pump, drain the rack of fluid and plug the unions?

Regards
Iain

[daxtojeiro]

I wouldnt run the pump without any oil, and I wouuldnt be sure what would happen if you ran the pump with oil and the ends bunged up, youll have to replace the pump with the idler that sits there on the no-pas engined cars. Im after one myself at the moment and they appear to be rare so Im going to make one. The rack will need to be replaced with one from a non-pas car too, you may need to modify the mounts as I would guess they would be different, is it worth it? I fitted electric power steering to my cobra last winter and it transformed the car, its so chuckable now, so so so much faster round slow corners, easier to drive, etc, etc, I wouldnt be without it now. Mind you, I do have 235 tyres on the front,
Phil

[tvrbob]

Hi Iain, I would suggest finding a non-PAS Chim owner to do a rack swap with. Plenty of Chim drivers out there that would like your PAS on their non-PAS car. That way you're sure to get all the right bits and bobs and it should be free.

[shpub]

I would seriously consider running PAS on the racer as it makes the whole job of driving it on a track less tiring and strenious for the driver mwhich usually means less mistakes and a better performance. Most of the Tuscan racers have gone to PAS for that reason. The rack is also quicker.

[chassis 33]

Steve, thanks for the advice.

The main reason is reliability, we've had fields this year decimated by unreliable cars, notingh serious, just niggles that have ment cars havent made it to the grid. Looking at the set up, im going to have to replace one of the PAS pipes anyway as the outer and braiding have been frazzled by the exhaust. I'm wondering whether it is really necessary, as the both Tuscan and Griff are manual racks, both drivers are of a similar build to me and dont seem to suffer in the races.

Also i wouldnt hope to run a pump without fluid, as i understand it theyre like diesel pumps and use the fluid as lubricant.

Regards
Iain

[victormeldrew]

tvrbob said:

Hi Iain, I would suggest finding a non-PAS Chim owner to do a rack swap with. Plenty of Chim drivers out there that would like your PAS on their non-PAS car. That way you're sure to get all the right bits and bobs and it should be free.

Really? OK girls, form a queue over there by Iain. Mind you don't break your nails swapping the parts over!

[shpub]

PAS will also let you run wider tyres without increasing the driver strain which will help big time. Most of the Tuscan Racers from the Tuscan Challenge have PAS or moved to it. Personally it is a must have. I have taken some stick over saying this (usually of the feel is no good, racers don't need it and so on) but even some of the Tasmins are moving over to it as it is a big big advantage.

[daxtojeiro]

shpub,
I dont get why there's not more people fitting it as vertually all cars built today have it, including ferrari, porsches, etc, etc. I bet that a very high percentage of the best handling cars in the world have it fitted, my wifes MX5 has it and thats superb fun! I fitted it to the cobra, if it hadnt have made it better to drive I would have simply removed it and gone back to the original setup, but it has transformed the car, I can get it round mini round abouts quicker, catch the rear end quicker, I can park it now, where as before I just had to dump it where it stopped! Im not a girl, well I dont think I am :-)
Phil

[nztrev]

We'll be tracking the non pas race car next week (265 fronts),and ill be undecided on mine untill such time. Have you thought about going electric pump.
Iv'e got a TVR ps pump and rack but if I decide to go ps it will be definetly be electric.ie mr2

>> Edited by nztrev on Tuesday 26th July 09:30

[chassis 33]

shpub said:

PAS will also let you run wider tyres without increasing the driver strain which will help big time. Most of the Tuscan Racers from the Tuscan Challenge have PAS or moved to it. Personally it is a must have. I have taken some stick over saying this (usually of the feel is no good, racers don't need it and so on) but even some of the Tasmins are moving over to it as it is a big big advantage.

Ok, so is there any easy/cheap way of stopping the exhaust frazzling the PAS pipes in the area under the pump other than a heat blanket on the exhaust and cool-it tubes around the PAS plumbing? Likewise has anyone re-routed the plumming ever, the reservoir and associated plumbing makes it a right bugger to work on the off side of the engine.

I understand and take onboard the point about it being easier/quicker to catch a slide, however I wont be running wider tyres, certainly not next year. Surely the weight of the steering also depends how much castor the front uprights are running, as the weight is the lifting of the front end as the tyres are rotated about the inclined imaginary kingpin axis, its not just the mechanical resistance of the rubber at the contact patch.

The idea is to show that an essentially road spec car can be competative in the TVRCC series, infact many of the cars on this forum will of had more spent on performance parts than the racer. Ignoring an engine refresh, I'll be spending a third more on the safety gear (cage, extinguisher etc) than on performance mods (brakes shocks etc)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

Regards
Iain

[GreenV8S]

The steering loads depend on how wide/sticky the tyres are and what geometry you are running. I run 225 road tyres in the V8S with about -2 deg camber and it's heavier than standard, but once it's moving the steering lightens up nicely. When it's drfting the steering is almost perfectly balanced with no weight on it at all. Adding PAS removes feedback from the steering and in this case there's no justification for it. I think the normal justification for PAS in a roadgoing car is that it makes the car easier to park.

At the other end of the scale, the Topcats race Tuscan without PAS had extremely heavy steering when the suspension was loaded up, and I was having trouble changing gear mid bend because I simply couldn't steer it properly one-handed. This is a case where I think PAS would be worth while.

[daxtojeiro]

If routing of the pipes is a concern go for an electric pump, thats what I fitted, one from a Citreon AX, I believe its the same as a Pug 106 and as stated before, the MR2 has one too. I did concider controlling it so it received less power at speed to reduce the assistance, but there was no need to do that, if anyone drove my car they would think it didnt have pas as its still quite heavy,
Phil