Aftermarket dampers etc
Discussion
I just went through finding out about this myself and getting them fitted to my Grif. I got Nitrons fitted by TopCats, and gave them their first track try out at the Monster Meet yesterday. IMO they are excellent.
From the wide range of advice I received, it seemed the Nitrons are recommended by more people, and probably the most often fitted. If they're too pricey for you then the new GAZ shocks sound very promising, but it sounds like they might need a little more time to get them developed to their best potential, so if you're in no hurry and need to save some cost then they could be worth considering.
From the wide range of advice I received, it seemed the Nitrons are recommended by more people, and probably the most often fitted. If they're too pricey for you then the new GAZ shocks sound very promising, but it sounds like they might need a little more time to get them developed to their best potential, so if you're in no hurry and need to save some cost then they could be worth considering.
Spax are not even on my list let along near the top. They are certainly not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence as Nitron, unless you are contrasting them.
I think the popular candidates are Gaz, Protech, Nitron, Ohlin. This is roughly in order of cost, and also of performance. My experience is that the performance difference in this range is quite noticeable and it is worth getting the best that you can afford. But you have to draw the line somewhere, there are much more expensive (and presumably better) dampers out there, you can easily spend thousands of pounds per corner if money is no object. Personally, I decided that Nitrons were the best compromise for me and I could not justify the extra cost for the Ohlins. But with prices and specs changing all the time, this is a call you will have to make for yourself.
The more demanding you are, the more important it is that you have your suspension set up correctly. Obviously there are benefits to using better components, but these are no good on their own unless they are properly set up to suit the car and driver. Because this is subjective it tends to be something of a black art, there's nothing to it that couldn't be done at home using ordinary hand tools but knowing and understanding how to achieve the handling characteristics you want is the trick. This is something that only comes with experience. If this is something you enjoy tinkering with there's no reason you couldn't get that experience yourself, but if you want to improve the handling right now your best bet is to involve a race engineer or handling specialist. (There is really no point involving a normal servicing mechanic, this is a completely different area of expertise.)
If you're going to get a professional involved, your best bet is to follow their recomendation on damper type and specs. They'll get the best results with dampers they're familiar with. Personally I think that if you take this route it is right and proper to let your specialist supply the parts too, and benefit from the profit margin on them. You benefit too by having a single contact who is responsible for the whole thing working - no issues with the fitter claiming faulty goods and the supplier claiming incorrectly fitted, with you in the middle.
I think the popular candidates are Gaz, Protech, Nitron, Ohlin. This is roughly in order of cost, and also of performance. My experience is that the performance difference in this range is quite noticeable and it is worth getting the best that you can afford. But you have to draw the line somewhere, there are much more expensive (and presumably better) dampers out there, you can easily spend thousands of pounds per corner if money is no object. Personally, I decided that Nitrons were the best compromise for me and I could not justify the extra cost for the Ohlins. But with prices and specs changing all the time, this is a call you will have to make for yourself.
The more demanding you are, the more important it is that you have your suspension set up correctly. Obviously there are benefits to using better components, but these are no good on their own unless they are properly set up to suit the car and driver. Because this is subjective it tends to be something of a black art, there's nothing to it that couldn't be done at home using ordinary hand tools but knowing and understanding how to achieve the handling characteristics you want is the trick. This is something that only comes with experience. If this is something you enjoy tinkering with there's no reason you couldn't get that experience yourself, but if you want to improve the handling right now your best bet is to involve a race engineer or handling specialist. (There is really no point involving a normal servicing mechanic, this is a completely different area of expertise.)
If you're going to get a professional involved, your best bet is to follow their recomendation on damper type and specs. They'll get the best results with dampers they're familiar with. Personally I think that if you take this route it is right and proper to let your specialist supply the parts too, and benefit from the profit margin on them. You benefit too by having a single contact who is responsible for the whole thing working - no issues with the fitter claiming faulty goods and the supplier claiming incorrectly fitted, with you in the middle.
Pum said:
I just went through finding out about this myself and getting them fitted to my Grif. I got Nitrons fitted by TopCats, and gave them their first track try out at the Monster Meet yesterday. IMO they are excellent.
From the wide range of advice I received, it seemed the Nitrons are recommended by more people, and probably the most often fitted. If they're too pricey for you then the new GAZ shocks sound very promising, but it sounds like they might need a little more time to get them developed to their best potential, so if you're in no hurry and need to save some cost then they could be worth considering.
A very fair assesment but slightly out of date regarding the Chim/Griff set-up on Gaz.
Following Steve Guglielmi doing some testing, he seems quite happy with the final result he fitted last week.
We have changed the rear valving and put a progressive bump stop on at Steves suggestion.
Gaz do not pretend to have Nitron quaking in their boots but in the budget range for around £500 for a kit, ie. for road and the occasional trackday, I have yet to find better value and if I do, you will all be the first to know.
There's an update on the Protech dampers too .. in addition to them being about the cheapest configurable damper on the market as regards valving changes and stroke lengths made to order, they can also now come with 16mm piston rods and are of course alloy bodied which makes them much better for proper performance driving.
you will defo notice the performance of a steel bodied damper like and avo or gaz deteriorating after 5-6 hard laps, you can't get away from the poorer heat transfer properties of a steel bodied damper compromising the grip of a car as the oil overheats and loses viscosity.
I no longer sell steel bodied dampers because of this.
Remember, budget dampers are budget dampers for a reason .. the new monotube double adjustable Protech due shortly definately will have nitron upping their already impressive game I'm sure.
edited to add : don't forget the set-up though .. as is often said on here a well set up budget kit is always much better than a badly set up expensive kit .. so bear that in mind also. even though i seem to have come down heavy on the budget dampers here I know bugsy for instance has good people fitting his budget dampers so you know you're starting from a sensible baseline there.
>> Edited by trackcar on Sunday 4th September 16:23
you will defo notice the performance of a steel bodied damper like and avo or gaz deteriorating after 5-6 hard laps, you can't get away from the poorer heat transfer properties of a steel bodied damper compromising the grip of a car as the oil overheats and loses viscosity.
I no longer sell steel bodied dampers because of this.
Remember, budget dampers are budget dampers for a reason .. the new monotube double adjustable Protech due shortly definately will have nitron upping their already impressive game I'm sure.
edited to add : don't forget the set-up though .. as is often said on here a well set up budget kit is always much better than a badly set up expensive kit .. so bear that in mind also. even though i seem to have come down heavy on the budget dampers here I know bugsy for instance has good people fitting his budget dampers so you know you're starting from a sensible baseline there.
>> Edited by trackcar on Sunday 4th September 16:23
Pupp,i was in a similar position to yourself,only contemplating the odd trackday or two,but wanted something quality that will perform and last.I just couldnt justify the price of nitrons or ohlins,and in the end went for the alloy bodied protechs from trackcar solutions.Fabulous kit specifically designed for your car by jools himself
,rose jointed(you want to avoid rubber bushes when theyre so close to the manifold imho)and they have a very positive and predictable adjustment control.Best of all,they come with a three year guarantee!!Really chuffed with mine,fabulous stuff
,rose jointed(you want to avoid rubber bushes when theyre so close to the manifold imho)and they have a very positive and predictable adjustment control.Best of all,they come with a three year guarantee!!Really chuffed with mine,fabulous stuff 
My P&J came with SPAX adjustables fitted by the previous owner. They are s*it to be blunt. Spend a bit more and get some GAZ or AVO at the very least - thats what I will be doing !
Having said the above, I see in this months sprint an article about the new SPAX shocks for grif/chim. Maybe these will work better than the old setup.
Dodsy
Having said the above, I see in this months sprint an article about the new SPAX shocks for grif/chim. Maybe these will work better than the old setup.
Dodsy
IIRC the standard Chim dampers are Bilstein... and AVO's seem to be cheaper than standard, so seems a no-brainer not to fit them at the least.
I don't think that I'd get the most out of a Nitron, so don't think I'll spend the money to get the "extra"... but having seen Joolz's V8S at Snetterton on Saturday I may well be making a
I don't think that I'd get the most out of a Nitron, so don't think I'll spend the money to get the "extra"... but having seen Joolz's V8S at Snetterton on Saturday I may well be making a
bugsy said:
A very fair assesment but slightly out of date regarding the Chim/Griff set-up on Gaz.
Following Steve Guglielmi doing some testing, he seems quite happy with the final result he fitted last week.
We have changed the rear valving and put a progressive bump stop on at Steves suggestion.
Ah, there you go. My info was a couple of weeks old, and I got the impression that the situation with tweaking was ongoing. Obviously I didn't know timescales for completion.
bugsy said:
Gaz do not pretend to have Nitron quaking in their boots but in the budget range for around £500 for a kit, ie. for road and the occasional trackday, I have yet to find better value and if I do, you will all be the first to know.
Absolutely agree. I was not on a money-no-object budget, and felt the GAZ price point was about the right level of expenditure I could justify. However, I got lucky and picked up a perfect set of secondhand Nitrons for under 600 quid
Obviously the buyer has to factor in how much they can afford (if you can afford Nitron or Ohlins then why not), but I suspect that the Nitrons have higher performance levels than my talent level - this is another factor the occasional trackdayer may want to consider when chossing their shocks.
GreenV8S said:
Personally I think that if you take this route it is right and proper to let your specialist supply the parts too, and benefit from the profit margin on them.
TopCats quoted the Nitron webpage price to supply, so unless they get dealer discount, they weren't taking a profit on them, but I can understand those that do - they are a business after all.
Podie, the shocks that came off my 1994 Grif were Bilsteins.
Pum said:
Obviously the buyer has to factor in how much they can afford (if you can afford Nitron or Ohlins then why not), but I suspect that the Nitrons have higher performance levels than my talent level - this is another factor the occasional trackdayer may want to consider when chossing their shocks.
Dampers and suspension setup are quite high on the 'upgrade' shopping list, but they aren't at the top. There's little point upgrading the suspension (or the brakes, or the engine come to that) until you know how the car handles and how you would like to change it. As you get more experience you may start finding the existing setup doesn't suit you, in which case you might consider changing the suspension settings and possibly changing the spring and damper specs. Or you might find you're heavy on the brakes and want to upgrade these to allows you to stay on track longer. My point is you should find the shortcomings and then address them rather than get your cheque book out at day one. By the way these cars do go and handle rather well as standard and I would say that 90% of the shortcomings are with the driver rather than the car. So consider spending 90% of your budget upgrading the driver for the first couple of years and I reckon you won't be far wrong.
GreenV8S said:
There's little point upgrading the suspension (or the brakes, or the engine come to that) until you know how the car handles and how you would like to change it. As you get more experience you may start finding the existing setup doesn't suit you, in which case you might consider changing the suspension settings and possibly changing the spring and damper specs. Or you might find you're heavy on the brakes and want to upgrade these to allows you to stay on track longer. My point is you should find the shortcomings and then address them rather than get your cheque book out at day one. By the way these cars do go and handle rather well as standard and I would say that 90% of the shortcomings are with the driver rather than the car. So consider spending 90% of your budget upgrading the driver for the first couple of years and I reckon you won't be far wrong.
Excellent advice, and in agreement with my experience. I've had my Grif for 7 years, and have only just got around to significant changes. I waited until I knew what I wanted, and was then delayed in finding out where best to get it. I based my choice of upgrades (suspension and brakes) on my experience on many previous trackdays and road driving, what I wanted to achieve, all the expert/informed advice I could get (eg: here), as well as the maintenance requirements of the car at this time (suspension needed attention anyway).
Also, on my first few trackdays I got professional tuition, which is the best upgrade, and I should probably invest in more
>> Edited by Pum on Monday 5th September 18:36
pupp said:
Going the Protech route... after talking to Mr protech this afternoon
Anyone got any base setting info for spring rates and preloads/ride height?
I have some Protech settings / spring rates / stroke lengths / valving changes / rod changes / bearing end changes / ride height specs / suspension setting specs ..
trackcar said:
Going the Protech route... after talking to Mr protech this afternoon
Anyone got any base setting info for spring rates and preloads/ride height?
I have some Protech settings / spring rates / stroke lengths / valving changes / rod changes / bearing end changes / ride height specs / suspension setting specs ..
My order is placed
thanks JooPodie said:Avo's get a
IIRC the standard Chim dampers are Bilstein... and AVO's seem to be cheaper than standard, so seems a no-brainer not to fit them at the least.
I don't think that I'd get the most out of a Nitron, so don't think I'll spend the money to get the "extra"... but having seen Joolz's V8S at Snetterton on Saturday I may well be making a
from me over standard.. I'm sure some of the "now/soon available bespoke's" will be far superior... But i can assure you, a well set up car on Avo's driven by the right person (not me
) goes round corners very very well Lol I had my S on AVOs for ages .. did a great many track days in it .. I loved the way it was challenging to drive and back then i wasn't interested in outright speed, just enjoying driving the car.
However, it's only when you start to push that you notice the drawbacks of a twin tube steel damper. The performance of the damper drops off just when you need it most .. i think our race driver described my AVO'd car at Elvington (after his third spin) as *absolutely crap* or words to that effect
Make no mistake, a steel bodied twin tube damper WILL be compromising your speed on track, there's NO getting away from it. This is why AVO themselves make alloy bodied dampers too of course.
However, it's only when you start to push that you notice the drawbacks of a twin tube steel damper. The performance of the damper drops off just when you need it most .. i think our race driver described my AVO'd car at Elvington (after his third spin) as *absolutely crap* or words to that effect
Make no mistake, a steel bodied twin tube damper WILL be compromising your speed on track, there's NO getting away from it. This is why AVO themselves make alloy bodied dampers too of course.
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