To the nutter in the red Chim on the A272 near Petworth
Discussion
As TVR owners in general, and Chimaera owners in particular, we love our cars, and love nothing better than a hoon in the sunshine.
However, I was simply amazed at the complete idiocy and total lack of responsibility of one of us (obviously, I don't know if he was a PH-er) earlier today on the A283 near Petworth in West Sussex.
I was in our Zafira with the family, in a convoy of about 6-7 cars, travelling from Wisborough Green towards Petworth. It's a nice twisty road there, though much of it is blind, and is adorned with the solid double white lines in recognition of this.
I became aware of a bergundy red Chim join the rear of the convoy. He was darting about obviously looking for passing places. Pretty soon, his impatience got the better of him, an he started picking cars off in the double-white line zones. There is a stretch of road like a rollercoaster, which even in the elevated position of the Zafira, is impossible to see whether the dips are clear of oncoming traffic. And in this suicide zone, the fool starts again, overtaking 2 cars, this time pulling in behind me. I was too amazed by his lunacy to be angry at the time.
Oncoming traffic put paid to him overtaking me for a mile or so, but we then got onto a long - though narrow - stretch, approaching the village of Petworth. Overtaking is quite legal here, and I knew he was going to go for it, so I moderated my speed, simply to let this tosser get past, and dissapear. However, he clearly didn't bother to look ahead, for although the road appeared clear, there is an entrance on the road from a farm, and something white was pulling out - just as he went for the overtake.
He missed the van that pulled out by about 3 metres. The Chim was a P-registered 500. If it had been a 400, it probably wouldn't have made the manoevre successfully - it was that close. Quite simply, he could have killed or injured 6 people.
If this person is a PH'er, and you should happen to read this thread, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. Right now, I can barely contain my rage, at what this lunatic nearly did to my family. It is morons like you that not only raise insurance premiums, but also cause tradgedies, and make a good case for gatsos. PLEASE consider your behaviour - you are NOT invincible because you drive a TVR. (Badly)
However, I was simply amazed at the complete idiocy and total lack of responsibility of one of us (obviously, I don't know if he was a PH-er) earlier today on the A283 near Petworth in West Sussex.
I was in our Zafira with the family, in a convoy of about 6-7 cars, travelling from Wisborough Green towards Petworth. It's a nice twisty road there, though much of it is blind, and is adorned with the solid double white lines in recognition of this.
I became aware of a bergundy red Chim join the rear of the convoy. He was darting about obviously looking for passing places. Pretty soon, his impatience got the better of him, an he started picking cars off in the double-white line zones. There is a stretch of road like a rollercoaster, which even in the elevated position of the Zafira, is impossible to see whether the dips are clear of oncoming traffic. And in this suicide zone, the fool starts again, overtaking 2 cars, this time pulling in behind me. I was too amazed by his lunacy to be angry at the time.
Oncoming traffic put paid to him overtaking me for a mile or so, but we then got onto a long - though narrow - stretch, approaching the village of Petworth. Overtaking is quite legal here, and I knew he was going to go for it, so I moderated my speed, simply to let this tosser get past, and dissapear. However, he clearly didn't bother to look ahead, for although the road appeared clear, there is an entrance on the road from a farm, and something white was pulling out - just as he went for the overtake.
He missed the van that pulled out by about 3 metres. The Chim was a P-registered 500. If it had been a 400, it probably wouldn't have made the manoevre successfully - it was that close. Quite simply, he could have killed or injured 6 people.
If this person is a PH'er, and you should happen to read this thread, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. Right now, I can barely contain my rage, at what this lunatic nearly did to my family. It is morons like you that not only raise insurance premiums, but also cause tradgedies, and make a good case for gatsos. PLEASE consider your behaviour - you are NOT invincible because you drive a TVR. (Badly)
Quinny said:
Bloody idiot,
The thing is with somthing as quick at overtaking as a Tiv, you can afford to miss opportunities, and sit behind, another chance will come up soon enough, and you can use the power to make an overtake where many cars would have to sit behind. So why bother winding other road users up and basically making a bit of a prick out of yourself?
Good point and my thoughts as well...
Sadly there is a reason why TVRs are involved in incidents - and as our chosen steed becomes more and more affordable it is going to become yet more likely.
All we can do is drive our own cars to the highest standard we can achieve - in the hopes that we will dilute the effect...
Drive safe everyone.
All we can do is drive our own cars to the highest standard we can achieve - in the hopes that we will dilute the effect...
Drive safe everyone.
[devil's advocate] Didn't the driver of the vehicle exiting the farm bother to look if anything was overtaking? sounds like there would have been blame on both sides there. However i can imagine what the papers would have made of that .. [/devil's advocate]
this is (of course) putting aside for one second the fact that the tiv driver sounds a bit of a cock ..
this is (of course) putting aside for one second the fact that the tiv driver sounds a bit of a cock ..
trackcar said:
[devil's advocate] Didn't the driver of the vehicle exiting the farm bother to look if anything was overtaking? sounds like there would have been blame on both sides there. However i can imagine what the papers would have made of that .. [/devil's advocate]
this is (of course) putting aside for one second the fact that the tiv driver sounds a bit of a cock ..
Yeah, I guess it's a fair enough supposition. The flaw is that the van had already began to pull out moments before the Tiv commenced his overtake. To the van, the road would have appeared clear when he checked.
I think Quinny hit the nail on the head earlier with his 3rd Party Perception comment. Everyone that this guy had overtaken dangerously would have witnessed the accident. The fact he'd endangered them previously would no doubt have influenced their statements to the police - and I don't think for a second they would have been supportive.
I must admit, in my own past I've committed some marginal overtakes - who hasn't - but this guy was in a league of his own. I also have become accutely aware of "what others must think of me" when I'm driving, ever since the 3rd Party Perception message was delivered to me during a Ride-Drive course I did last November.
Quinny said:
There is such a thing as third party perception, imagine if he had had a crash. Imagine the headlines, "crazy sports car driver kills blah blah" "Witnesses report that the driver overtook on a blind brow at well over 100 mph" etc etc.
It dosen't bare thinking about.
Absolutely.
The first people on the scheme will be the people you have just overtaken, and if they start saying you had been driving too fast, and you are involved in an accident that could potentially have been caused by excessive speed, it's going to be very awkward for you.Oh, I'm gonna annoy people here but here goes anyway.
I ignore double white lines in the middle of the road. Now I don't for one moment condone either side here as without being there I couldn't tell whether what he did was sensible or not, although I'm inclined to believe anyone who cuts it to three meters is taking the mick.
But the double white lines in the centre of the road are a guide based on a cars overtaking ability, and the degree to which a driver knows the area he is driving in. Some double white lines are placed in areas which just defy explanation unless the person deciding to put them there had never driven in a sportscar or was totally against overtaking in its entirety ala 'brake' or 'transport 2000'.
To show horror at someone crossing a double white line because its a double white line just shows you are far more likely to adhere to rules than the majority of drivers. The rest of your complaint about this chap's driving seems well justified.
I ignore double white lines in the middle of the road. Now I don't for one moment condone either side here as without being there I couldn't tell whether what he did was sensible or not, although I'm inclined to believe anyone who cuts it to three meters is taking the mick.
But the double white lines in the centre of the road are a guide based on a cars overtaking ability, and the degree to which a driver knows the area he is driving in. Some double white lines are placed in areas which just defy explanation unless the person deciding to put them there had never driven in a sportscar or was totally against overtaking in its entirety ala 'brake' or 'transport 2000'.
To show horror at someone crossing a double white line because its a double white line just shows you are far more likely to adhere to rules than the majority of drivers. The rest of your complaint about this chap's driving seems well justified.
Julian64 said:
Oh, I'm gonna annoy people here but here goes anyway.
I ignore double white lines in the middle of the road. Now I don't for one moment condone either side here as without being there I couldn't tell whether what he did was sensible or not, although I'm inclined to believe anyone who cuts it to three meters is taking the mick.
But the double white lines in the centre of the road are a guide based on a cars overtaking ability, and the degree to which a driver knows the area he is driving in. Some double white lines are placed in areas which just defy explanation unless the person deciding to put them there had never driven in a sportscar or was totally against overtaking in its entirety ala 'brake' or 'transport 2000'.
To show horror at someone crossing a double white line because its a double white line just shows you are far more likely to adhere to rules than the majority of drivers. The rest of your complaint about this chap's driving seems well justified.
Well, at least you qualified your statement by saying you were not there. I am aware that you are permitted to cross double whites if conditions dictate.
BUT the solid lines are there on this road for good reason. You cannot see the approaching bends, nor into the dips in the road. It is completely unconnected to the car's performance - in this instance. I (as you are probably aware) drive a 500 myself, and would not have attempted 2 of the 3 moves I saw this guy make - as both were no better than a roll of the dice. He overtook on a blind bend. He overtook on the approach to a blind dip. End of.
Sharky500 said:
Oh, I'm gonna annoy people here but here goes anyway.
I ignore double white lines in the middle of the road. Now I don't for one moment condone either side here as without being there I couldn't tell whether what he did was sensible or not, although I'm inclined to believe anyone who cuts it to three meters is taking the mick.
But the double white lines in the centre of the road are a guide based on a cars overtaking ability, and the degree to which a driver knows the area he is driving in. Some double white lines are placed in areas which just defy explanation unless the person deciding to put them there had never driven in a sportscar or was totally against overtaking in its entirety ala 'brake' or 'transport 2000'.
To show horror at someone crossing a double white line because its a double white line just shows you are far more likely to adhere to rules than the majority of drivers. The rest of your complaint about this chap's driving seems well justified.
Well, at least you qualified your statement by saying you were not there. I am aware that you are permitted to cross double whites if conditions dictate.
BUT the solid lines are there on this road for good reason. You cannot see the approaching bends, nor into the dips in the road. It is completely unconnected to the car's performance - in this instance. I (as you are probably aware) drive a 500 myself, and would not have attempted 2 of the 3 moves I saw this guy make - as both were no better than a roll of the dice. He overtook on a blind bend. He overtook on the approach to a blind dip. End of.
Well there's something I learnt today. I thought I was being totally illegal every time I crossed a double white line.
This incedent reminds me of a similar situation described on the following thread:-
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=233116&f=117&h=0
I agree that we should be able to 'flame' one of our own, when the driving standard has dropped below an acceptable standard. Tis a thin line between 'spirited' driving and been down right dangerous.....
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=233116&f=117&h=0
I agree that we should be able to 'flame' one of our own, when the driving standard has dropped below an acceptable standard. Tis a thin line between 'spirited' driving and been down right dangerous.....
As a TVR owner and a motorcyclist, I cannot entirely agree with Julian64. The planning of the position of certain or any unbroken white lines were probably there a long time. However the performance of vehicles these days far exeed that of yesteryear, bikes included. As responsible motorists, (as i'm sure we all are?) we must all take into account the oncoming vehicle might have an equally fast idiot behind them. The three metres would count for nothing as would their lives and that of the van man. Fast driving on most roads these days are far more dangerous as before, congestion, gatsos,etc. and we all must be guilty now and again. But patience is better than death.
P.S. Sorry for any offence.
P.S. Sorry for any offence.
Julian64 said:
Well there's something I learnt today. I thought I was being totally illegal every time I crossed a double white line.
Its not totally illegal. Personally I find in about 90% of cases the white lines are fully justified - blind bend, hidden turning, dip etc - as someone said earlier when Im out in the Tiv I can wait for a few yards until past a white line then use the power to make an overtake opportunity where its safe. Unless you know the road really well and can guarantee you know that its safe then why bother, its hardly going to cost a lot of time. But then of course the car coming the other way knows its a double white so wil be less inclined towards looking for oncoming traffic thereby increasing the danger etc etc...
Highway Code
108: Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10mph or less.
Laws RTA sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
>> Edited by bigdods on Monday 3rd April 19:29
bigdods said:
Well there's something I learnt today. I thought I was being totally illegal every time I crossed a double white line.
Its not totally illegal. Personally I find in about 90% of cases the white lines are fully justified - blind bend, hidden turning, dip etc - as someone said earlier when Im out in the Tiv I can wait for a few yards until past a white line then use the power to make an overtake opportunity where its safe. Unless you know the road really well and can guarantee you know that its safe then why bother, its hardly going to cost a lot of time. But then of course the car coming the other way knows its a double white so wil be less inclined towards looking for oncoming traffic thereby increasing the danger etc etc...
Highway Code
108: Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10mph or less.
Laws RTA sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
>> Edited by bigdods on Monday 3rd April 19:29
That pretty much says totally illegal to me
. But maybe I stopped reading the highway code when I got to the word 'safe'.This guy was a bloody idiot... and I must also say some of the comments on this thread debating why it is okay to cross white lines, such as when you know the road, it's up to the guy pulling out to look, or the capabilities of your high powered car etc, are equally ludicrous... I only hope I never meet any of you guys coming the other way...
I never cross them - its not worth it - just saying that I can see why some people might do it. Problem is that there are so many daft restrictions in place nowadays with 40 limits on long straights (for example) that some people are inclined to just ignore everything regardless of how stupid and dangerous it might be to do so.
The crazy thing here is that if you are in a Tiv you dont need to do stupid stuff like that - you have enough power to overtake safely whenever the mood takes you so why do it on double whites. I agree that this guy was clearly a few sarnies short of a picnic...
The crazy thing here is that if you are in a Tiv you dont need to do stupid stuff like that - you have enough power to overtake safely whenever the mood takes you so why do it on double whites. I agree that this guy was clearly a few sarnies short of a picnic...
I suppose I always get a bit frustrated when I see hear people quoting from the highway code. Its a bit like when someone uses a quote from the bible to support an argument.
It makes a mockery because you know full well there is no one on the roads driving that obeys all the rules in the highway code. Only a short period of time driving in this country tells you that. So the person quoting is doing no more than deciding which of the rules is relevent to them and which isn't.
So holding someone up as disobeying the highway code holds little weight, and using this method is rather hypocritical unless you happen to be a person who actually drives like they did when they passed their test.
Those people may exist but I've not had any experience of meeting one on the road. In fact one of the major themes of PH seems to be the reluctance of many to obey the one rule of the road which causes penalty if not obeyed to the letter of the law ie going passed a gatso.
If you read my first reply you will see I take great pain not to condone this chaps driving but the logical conclusion of agreeing with the initial poster is that the highway code is the gold standard of driving, when in fact its a useful book used to pass your test, but many of its rules are surplanted by experience of actual everyday driving, in fact I would go further and say if you drove with blind obeyance of all its rules you would become a road hazzard.
It makes a mockery because you know full well there is no one on the roads driving that obeys all the rules in the highway code. Only a short period of time driving in this country tells you that. So the person quoting is doing no more than deciding which of the rules is relevent to them and which isn't.
So holding someone up as disobeying the highway code holds little weight, and using this method is rather hypocritical unless you happen to be a person who actually drives like they did when they passed their test.
Those people may exist but I've not had any experience of meeting one on the road. In fact one of the major themes of PH seems to be the reluctance of many to obey the one rule of the road which causes penalty if not obeyed to the letter of the law ie going passed a gatso.
If you read my first reply you will see I take great pain not to condone this chaps driving but the logical conclusion of agreeing with the initial poster is that the highway code is the gold standard of driving, when in fact its a useful book used to pass your test, but many of its rules are surplanted by experience of actual everyday driving, in fact I would go further and say if you drove with blind obeyance of all its rules you would become a road hazzard.
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff