Chim / Griff Rollbar, Universal?
Discussion
I have a Rollbar from Dave Porter Motorsport that used to be in a Griff of Austec fame.
However it seems not to fit my '98 Chim 450. When positioned over the rear roll bar mounts, the front mounts that bolt to the lower seatbelt mounting points are a couple of inches too far back. It's also rather too close to the occupants heads for my liking.
I thought the later Griff and Chim chassis was identical and therefore the roll bars were universal? Anybody have any ideas?
At this rate I'm either going to have to chop it about a bit or sell it to a hairy Griff owner.
However it seems not to fit my '98 Chim 450. When positioned over the rear roll bar mounts, the front mounts that bolt to the lower seatbelt mounting points are a couple of inches too far back. It's also rather too close to the occupants heads for my liking.
I thought the later Griff and Chim chassis was identical and therefore the roll bars were universal? Anybody have any ideas?
At this rate I'm either going to have to chop it about a bit or sell it to a hairy Griff owner.
Al, I've got a roll bar that came from a chimaera that also doesnt fit my 99 500.
The bar fits in the confines of the car but the lower ends of the main hoop don't line up with the seat belt mountings. Maybe its not meant to but it isn't obvious how it's supposed to be mounted.
Here are some pics.
Is yours anything like this?
Andy
The bar fits in the confines of the car but the lower ends of the main hoop don't line up with the seat belt mountings. Maybe its not meant to but it isn't obvious how it's supposed to be mounted.
Here are some pics.
Is yours anything like this?
Andy
Edited by else on Monday 10th July 12:56
I will try to get some pics on later but my rollbar has horizontally aligned fixings on the front rather than vertical holes like yours. It seems clear that the roll bar is designed to use the lower seat belt mounting points with the bolts going horizontally through the bar and then into the body as per normal. However it's way off. The seatbelts must always be mounted in the right place as they bolt to a vertical metal piece that extends upwards from the outrigger, as per the pictures in the Bible. If the chassis were all the same then this distance between the seat belt mounting points and the rear mountings should always be the same. All I can think of is that there are two different chassis conditions and both our bars are for the other!
The rollbar pictured has the mounting holes in line with the horizontal plane of the "floorpan" and the seatbelt mounting points are in the vertical plane where the belt-reels mount. To me this looks like it attaches to the corner body mount on the floor, rather than the seatbelt mount.
(Mine uses both holes with a large plate for a bit of extra protection
)
(Mine uses both holes with a large plate for a bit of extra protection
)Seems odd it wont fit,I have a 96 Griff resting on a 98 Chim chassis and everything seems to line up ok,what year was the Griff it came out of.I will double check for you when i'm back home in a couple of days if that helps.
To be honest I don't like the way it attatches to the seatbelt mounts,it should be mounted to a triangular plate section on the outrigger corner,otherwise its basically cosmetic.
The rear section on the later chassis's (98 on I think?)have three threaded holes per side allowing for a decent size anchor plate to be welded to the base of the rear diagonal cage struts.
To be honest I don't like the way it attatches to the seatbelt mounts,it should be mounted to a triangular plate section on the outrigger corner,otherwise its basically cosmetic.
The rear section on the later chassis's (98 on I think?)have three threaded holes per side allowing for a decent size anchor plate to be welded to the base of the rear diagonal cage struts.
v8sag said:
Seems odd it wont fit,I have a 96 Griff resting on a 98 Chim chassis and everything seems to line up ok,what year was the Griff it came out of.I will double check for you when i'm back home in a couple of days if that helps.
To be honest I don't like the way it attatches to the seatbelt mounts,it should be mounted to a triangular plate section on the outrigger corner,otherwise its basically cosmetic.
The rear section on the later chassis's (98 on I think?)have three threaded holes per side allowing for a decent size anchor plate to be welded to the base of the rear diagonal cage struts.
To be honest I don't like the way it attatches to the seatbelt mounts,it should be mounted to a triangular plate section on the outrigger corner,otherwise its basically cosmetic.
The rear section on the later chassis's (98 on I think?)have three threaded holes per side allowing for a decent size anchor plate to be welded to the base of the rear diagonal cage struts.
Thanks for the info, not sure how old the Griff was but my '98 Chim has the later chassis. I was under the impression however that the only additions were the rear roll bar mounting points under the parcel shelf? A couple of pics of the rear of the chassis would be dead helpful cheers!
Also, I'm only guessing it mounts to the seat belt points as they seem the only feasible way of doing it but maybe that's why they don't line up? Maybe it is supposed to mount to something else?
The roll bar also clashes with the Rear Pioneer speakers I have. A small issue I know but also another annoyance.
Somebody must have fitted one like this before!
Al450,
Hope this doesn't sound critical, but looking at your rollbar it (as said) seems very "cosmetic" I wouldn't trust the welds onto the vertical plate not to simply rip off in a roll-over. As the end of the tube doesn't terminate against anything at all (just hovers in the air behind the seat) its not going to transfter any load onto the chassis. Also I am suprised that the harness mounts have been drilled through the tube, rather than being welded onto the tube, as this will add a weak/fold point in the rear supports.
Cheers
MATT
Hope this doesn't sound critical, but looking at your rollbar it (as said) seems very "cosmetic" I wouldn't trust the welds onto the vertical plate not to simply rip off in a roll-over. As the end of the tube doesn't terminate against anything at all (just hovers in the air behind the seat) its not going to transfter any load onto the chassis. Also I am suprised that the harness mounts have been drilled through the tube, rather than being welded onto the tube, as this will add a weak/fold point in the rear supports.
Cheers
MATT
M@H said:
Al450,
Hope this doesn't sound critical, but looking at your rollbar it (as said) seems very "cosmetic" I wouldn't trust the welds onto the vertical plate not to simply rip off in a roll-over. As the end of the tube doesn't terminate against anything at all (just hovers in the air behind the seat) its not going to transfter any load onto the chassis. Also I am suprised that the harness mounts have been drilled through the tube, rather than being welded onto the tube, as this will add a weak/fold point in the rear supports.
Cheers
MATT
Hope this doesn't sound critical, but looking at your rollbar it (as said) seems very "cosmetic" I wouldn't trust the welds onto the vertical plate not to simply rip off in a roll-over. As the end of the tube doesn't terminate against anything at all (just hovers in the air behind the seat) its not going to transfter any load onto the chassis. Also I am suprised that the harness mounts have been drilled through the tube, rather than being welded onto the tube, as this will add a weak/fold point in the rear supports.
Cheers
MATT
I know this has all been done to death before but I had a good deal on the bar and thought it was better than nothing. The rear mounting points are pretty secure and it looks like I might have to modify the front anyway so I could make a good job of it. Just have to make sure I pad it and keep it away from the occupants heads obviously.
You're right about the harness mounting points, they are weldnuts welded onto the outside of the bar but with a hole through. Don't think it will compromise the strength of the bar too much though.
Going to have a word with the guys at the next TVRCC meet as several Chims there have rollbars.
IANASE* If you wanted to modify it I would make a base plate up that would sit over the body mount so you could bolt thought it, then take a tube up off it to meet the bottom of the existing rollbar tube, sleeve some narrower tube inside it so that it would also sleeve inside the existing rollbar tube and get it all welded up together (some "puddle" holes in the outer tube to the inner would also help with strengthing the join)
*I am not a structural engineer
*I am not a structural engineer
I have just removed a factory fit roll hoop from my 98 Griff. It is as per AL450’s picture. The fixings in the chassis are further back than the seat belt ones, there are an additional set of tapped bushes on the chassis. Very difficult to see because your view from underneath is blocked by the corner plate It looks to me as if the one in else’s pic has a different fitting that is intended to bolt to a plate under the floor. Have to say I felt a lot safer with it fitted than with it missing. Even if some doubt it’s design. I really can’t see the point in the ones that sit below the back of the rear seats.
The problem I have come up against with the standard one is the lack of diagonal cross member, which is now obligatory for mod prod over 2000cc. Welding a bar either from top corner one side to close to the floor fixing or across the rear struts was an option except. …. The structure is 38mm tube which was ok but the spec now says 42mm. If you mod an old hoop the new regs apply so I am having a new one made.
By having it sit more upright so it fits under the roof panel rather than the folding section and sitting fairly well forward and low in a race seat I hope to satisfy Q60 in the blue book. The mounting points will be the existing chassis fixings for the rear stuts and some feet that sit on the floor and bolt either to the corner chassis piece or a new plate welded across underneath. Not dissimilar to else’s except they will have more than one bolt. One big bolt is OK but 4 smaller ones is preferred.
The problem I have come up against with the standard one is the lack of diagonal cross member, which is now obligatory for mod prod over 2000cc. Welding a bar either from top corner one side to close to the floor fixing or across the rear struts was an option except. …. The structure is 38mm tube which was ok but the spec now says 42mm. If you mod an old hoop the new regs apply so I am having a new one made.
By having it sit more upright so it fits under the roof panel rather than the folding section and sitting fairly well forward and low in a race seat I hope to satisfy Q60 in the blue book. The mounting points will be the existing chassis fixings for the rear stuts and some feet that sit on the floor and bolt either to the corner chassis piece or a new plate welded across underneath. Not dissimilar to else’s except they will have more than one bolt. One big bolt is OK but 4 smaller ones is preferred.
steve-v8s said:
The problem I have come up against with the standard one is the lack of diagonal cross member, which is now obligatory for mod prod over 2000cc. Welding a bar either from top corner one side to close to the floor fixing or across the rear struts was an option except. …. The structure is 38mm tube which was ok but the spec now says 42mm. If you mod an old hoop the new regs apply so I am having a new one made.
If you want an idea on design, have a look at mine.
www.pistonheads.co.uk/members/showServiceHistory.asp?carId=16432
Edited by M@H on Sunday 16th July 21:29
v8sag said:
Al
If you measure back 130mm then up 20mm from the seatbelt anchor you will find the threaded(3/8" I think?) hole centre for what your rollbar was probably made to attatch to.
Mail me if you require ant pic's.
If you measure back 130mm then up 20mm from the seatbelt anchor you will find the threaded(3/8" I think?) hole centre for what your rollbar was probably made to attatch to.
Mail me if you require ant pic's.
Thanks a lot, will check that out. Hopefully I won't have to drill too many holes in the body to find it!
Quinny said:
Al
Your bar looks as though it mounts in the same way as mine.
Here's a few pics that may help.
In the first pic you can see the mounting point in relation to the seat belt.
Your bar looks as though it mounts in the same way as mine.
Here's a few pics that may help.
In the first pic you can see the mounting point in relation to the seat belt.
Edited by Quinny on Monday 17th July 01:42
Cool, thanks Quinny. That looks exactly like my roll bar. Can't wait to strip the car down now!
A couple of questions...
Is your roll bar fairly close to your head?
Did it foul the rear Pioneer speakers?
What about access to the seat belt?
I took some pics as well but can’t figure how to post them (we are simple folk in Wiltshire). Access to the seat belt is still OK but you need to plan ahead, it is better to extract it before closing the door. The head proximity is more of a problem with the passenger as their seat tends to be back more because of the battery. I have my seat two stops from fully forward and the headrest was forward of the bar. In my opinion it does need some padding around the potential head contact areas. Can’t see how it could fowl the speakers apart from the socket used when fitting the rear bolts.
Contrary to what people have said I was pleased to find the fixings look quite sturdy. Not just a bush tacked onto the chassis rail but what appears to be a sturdy flat plate attached to the triangle section.
Contrary to what people have said I was pleased to find the fixings look quite sturdy. Not just a bush tacked onto the chassis rail but what appears to be a sturdy flat plate attached to the triangle section.
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