HELP! No fuel to the engine!
Discussion
Hi all,
I've just had a bit of a "mare" with the Chim. It started by getting stuck at a petrol station down the road, with a hot start problem. I've had this once or twice about a year ago, but it hasn't been a problem since (so no hot-start kit). After letting it cool for a while and re-starting, the battery was pretty much flat (maybe because each time I tried before that the fans kicked in and drew a little more current).
Anyway, after about half an hour I gave it another try. On turning the key - fuel pump primed (good sign) and the battery had just about recovered enough to fire her up. After that, drove home ho problems (engine behaving fine). Swearing to myself that i'll fit a hot-start kit!
HOWEVER! When I parked up, I thought i'd try to start up again to see if the hot-start was going to be a recurring theme. Engine started (by this time battery had a good bit of charge in it from the drive home), but after a few secs died. I tried again, same thing. It then occurred that the fuel pump wasn't making a noise. OH BUGGER!
I've left everytning for a while to cool down, still no good. Engine will turn over fine, but no fuel (ignition is fine). So, i'm guessing it's either:
1. Fuel pump buggered.
2. Fuel pump relay shafted.
3. Fuel pump fuse(?) up the duff.
When turning the ignition on,I hear a faint click from one of the relays (can't tell which one) and then click again 3-4 sec later (similar duration to the fuel pump prime time).
I've had a look at the Bible and it isn't clear about which one is the fuel pump relay (i know it's one of the loose ones in the footwell loom). The fuse doesn't appear to be on the fuseboard, so I guess it's part of the relay or near it.
Is it likely to be the relay? Or the fuse?
Anyway, the RAC are booked to come have a look tomorrow morning, so i'll see what they say. If it is the relay I guess it shouldn't be a problem, although the RAC may not have the TVR/Landy specific one.
Any comments / advice / similar experience would be greatly appreciated! I'm supposed to be taking the Chim to Europe next weekend, so hopefully can be fixed within the next week! Everything else on the car is in fine fettle. So frustrated!
Cheers,
Ed450
I've just had a bit of a "mare" with the Chim. It started by getting stuck at a petrol station down the road, with a hot start problem. I've had this once or twice about a year ago, but it hasn't been a problem since (so no hot-start kit). After letting it cool for a while and re-starting, the battery was pretty much flat (maybe because each time I tried before that the fans kicked in and drew a little more current).
Anyway, after about half an hour I gave it another try. On turning the key - fuel pump primed (good sign) and the battery had just about recovered enough to fire her up. After that, drove home ho problems (engine behaving fine). Swearing to myself that i'll fit a hot-start kit!
HOWEVER! When I parked up, I thought i'd try to start up again to see if the hot-start was going to be a recurring theme. Engine started (by this time battery had a good bit of charge in it from the drive home), but after a few secs died. I tried again, same thing. It then occurred that the fuel pump wasn't making a noise. OH BUGGER!
I've left everytning for a while to cool down, still no good. Engine will turn over fine, but no fuel (ignition is fine). So, i'm guessing it's either:
1. Fuel pump buggered.
2. Fuel pump relay shafted.
3. Fuel pump fuse(?) up the duff.
When turning the ignition on,I hear a faint click from one of the relays (can't tell which one) and then click again 3-4 sec later (similar duration to the fuel pump prime time).
I've had a look at the Bible and it isn't clear about which one is the fuel pump relay (i know it's one of the loose ones in the footwell loom). The fuse doesn't appear to be on the fuseboard, so I guess it's part of the relay or near it.
Is it likely to be the relay? Or the fuse?
Anyway, the RAC are booked to come have a look tomorrow morning, so i'll see what they say. If it is the relay I guess it shouldn't be a problem, although the RAC may not have the TVR/Landy specific one.
Any comments / advice / similar experience would be greatly appreciated! I'm supposed to be taking the Chim to Europe next weekend, so hopefully can be fixed within the next week! Everything else on the car is in fine fettle. So frustrated!
Cheers,
Ed450
In an emergency you can use any of the other black plastic relays from the fuse/relay panel as a temporary replacement for the fuel pump relay of main power relay (the two metal cased relays on flying leads by the ECU). There are plenty of other potential faults that can disable the fuel pump. If you want to rule them out at a stroke, just connect a permanent 12v supply to the +ve terminal of the pump. If the engine then starts and runs OK you know the fault is somewhere in the pump supply circuit and it can be tracked down from there by somebody with basic electrical skills. Meanwhile you can still drive the car knowing you won't get stranded.
If you replace the metal relay with a black plastic relay, you'll need to remove the relay when you switch off the engine to stop it flattening the battery. Similarly if you hot-wire the pump you will need to disconnect it when you switch off the engine.
The black plastic relays are only a temporary substitute for the metal cased relays and they need to be replaced with a Bosch relay matching the original.
If you replace the metal relay with a black plastic relay, you'll need to remove the relay when you switch off the engine to stop it flattening the battery. Similarly if you hot-wire the pump you will need to disconnect it when you switch off the engine.
The black plastic relays are only a temporary substitute for the metal cased relays and they need to be replaced with a Bosch relay matching the original.
Got my money's worth from the RAC today - they couldn't fix the car though! 
Anyway once safely back home, I had a look to see if I could solve the problem (before phoning my local Tiv specialist in the morning). Suspected the relays might be the problem, so I "persuaded" them a little (bashed them together hard). Tried the ignition again - Hooray! fuel pump primed.
I let it stop, and then tried the engine. Fired up, then stopped. Ok I thought, the pump may have primed, but after shutting off, may not have come back on once the engine fired. Tried again (hit the relays again), this time not waiting for the pump to prime - engine started and ran sweetly. Fuel pump working as advertised.
So, (and please tell me if i'm barking up the wrong tree) i'm thinking that a solenoid (don't know which one, and can't tell the difference anyway) was sticking. So all that's needed is to replace them both (they're the same type). I've also ordered the Modwise hot-sart kit since this was the start of the original problem (maybe related), and looks as if it is rearing its ugly head again after a year.
Are the BOSCH relays easy to lay your hands on? ie Halfords, or would I have to visit the Tvr garage to pick up a pair?
Anyway once safely back home, I had a look to see if I could solve the problem (before phoning my local Tiv specialist in the morning). Suspected the relays might be the problem, so I "persuaded" them a little (bashed them together hard). Tried the ignition again - Hooray! fuel pump primed.
I let it stop, and then tried the engine. Fired up, then stopped. Ok I thought, the pump may have primed, but after shutting off, may not have come back on once the engine fired. Tried again (hit the relays again), this time not waiting for the pump to prime - engine started and ran sweetly. Fuel pump working as advertised.
So, (and please tell me if i'm barking up the wrong tree) i'm thinking that a solenoid (don't know which one, and can't tell the difference anyway) was sticking. So all that's needed is to replace them both (they're the same type). I've also ordered the Modwise hot-sart kit since this was the start of the original problem (maybe related), and looks as if it is rearing its ugly head again after a year.
Are the BOSCH relays easy to lay your hands on? ie Halfords, or would I have to visit the Tvr garage to pick up a pair?
Ed450 said:
Are the BOSCH relays easy to lay your hands on? ie Halfords, or would I have to visit the Tvr garage to pick up a pair?
Sounds like a dodgy relay or poor contact, clean the sockets and make sure the terminals are tight. You can buy the relays from any Land Rover dealer/specialist, TVR dealer/specialist and some good motorfactors.
Cheers for the advice guys, got a new fuel pump relay (they're like gold dust it would seem!) and the fuel pump and engine now start as normal.........
HOWEVER! I took it for a test drive to see if all was well yestarday. Quite hot and humid, fans kicked in pretty early as expected. Trouble is, they now won't turn off! They stayed on for the return journey (flowing 40-50 mph roads) and the temp was staying pretty low as a result. Tried the car this morning, stone cold, and the fans kick in immediately. Car starts up and runs fine though. So.... does the car just not like me or something? I've been giving thought to selling it later in the year, perhaps it overheard me?
I guess that the problem would be either the fan realay(S)
sticking or the otter switch/thermostat sticking?
Had a look at the fuse/realy box and can't tell which on the fan relay is because it looks NOTHING LIKE any of the diagrams in the bible! Plus my swirl tank doesn't have a thermostat/otter switch anywhere on it. However there is a thermostat-looking device on the left hand side of the radiator, with two spade connectors. It this it?
Would this problem be related to me mucking around with the fuel pump relay? It seems strange that the relays are failing in sympathy.
Oh, just remembered the fuse layout should be in the owners' handbook. i'll have a look.
Cheers! luckily i've got the week off so can get the bugger sorted for Europe.
HOWEVER! I took it for a test drive to see if all was well yestarday. Quite hot and humid, fans kicked in pretty early as expected. Trouble is, they now won't turn off! They stayed on for the return journey (flowing 40-50 mph roads) and the temp was staying pretty low as a result. Tried the car this morning, stone cold, and the fans kick in immediately. Car starts up and runs fine though. So.... does the car just not like me or something? I've been giving thought to selling it later in the year, perhaps it overheard me?
I guess that the problem would be either the fan realay(S)
sticking or the otter switch/thermostat sticking? Had a look at the fuse/realy box and can't tell which on the fan relay is because it looks NOTHING LIKE any of the diagrams in the bible! Plus my swirl tank doesn't have a thermostat/otter switch anywhere on it. However there is a thermostat-looking device on the left hand side of the radiator, with two spade connectors. It this it?
Would this problem be related to me mucking around with the fuel pump relay? It seems strange that the relays are failing in sympathy.
Oh, just remembered the fuse layout should be in the owners' handbook. i'll have a look.
Cheers! luckily i've got the week off so can get the bugger sorted for Europe.
hi - indeed the otter switch on your car is on the rad top left corner facing as if driving the car and it does sound as if it has failed - no doubt someone will be along soon with a quick check way of knowing for sure.
I had similar issues with fans when I first got my car , all faulty running was down to bad connections at supplies further compounded by bad earth, the connections are not too bad to reach and can be cleaned up quite easily, they generally sit in a puddle underneath the rad, i've got mine up behind the rad now nice and dry.
the earth for the fans is a bit of a bastard to get to on my car to be honest , it is the one that goes into the right hand chassis rail ( again facing forward ) and required the rad to be removed to get to, since cleaning both of these no fan problems.
good luck with it
I had similar issues with fans when I first got my car , all faulty running was down to bad connections at supplies further compounded by bad earth, the connections are not too bad to reach and can be cleaned up quite easily, they generally sit in a puddle underneath the rad, i've got mine up behind the rad now nice and dry.
the earth for the fans is a bit of a bastard to get to on my car to be honest , it is the one that goes into the right hand chassis rail ( again facing forward ) and required the rad to be removed to get to, since cleaning both of these no fan problems.
good luck with it
Cheers chaps, spot on as ever 
Turned out to be the otter switch. Had a gentle word with it (with the business end of a screwdriver) and it seems to have unstuck for now. I'll get my hands on a new one during the week. Might get one with a lower temp threshold actually. Funny because the switch is new (had a new radiator a few weeks ago).
So.... i've had three things go wrong (albiet not major) in the last two weeks after a trouble free year and a half 1.Leaky rad 2.Bust relay 3.Otter switch....so can I safely assume that as things happen in threes, i'm safe for a while?
Turned out to be the otter switch. Had a gentle word with it (with the business end of a screwdriver) and it seems to have unstuck for now. I'll get my hands on a new one during the week. Might get one with a lower temp threshold actually. Funny because the switch is new (had a new radiator a few weeks ago).
So.... i've had three things go wrong (albiet not major) in the last two weeks after a trouble free year and a half 1.Leaky rad 2.Bust relay 3.Otter switch....so can I safely assume that as things happen in threes, i'm safe for a while?
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff