Have I lost all sense of 'rush' or am I expecting too much??
Discussion
Other than my 400 Chim, I have, as a day-to-day car, a Laguna GT (205 bhp turbo) – a deceptively quick car (7.2 to 60 I think), especially through the gears when, as a driver, I am conscious of being pushed into my seat, relatively gently admittedly, by the acceleration. Getting up to a large amount of mph happens satisfactorily quickly. Brakes are good and sharp too.
Now here’s the rub – driving the Chim, I’m not aware of the ‘push in the back’ acceleration I get from the Laguna (mind you, the acceleration is instant, unlike the Laguna which is a tad lagged) – this, I accept, may be because my senses are ‘swamped’ by the noise (which you don’t get in the Laguna!) and the general sporty ‘environment’. Getting up to those high mph’s ‘seems’ to take longer too
Is this just me having had my senses ‘blunted’ by the Laguna, or is the Chim suffering from ‘old age lethargy’ (but it is only 7 years old). I appreciate that in reality the quoted 240bhp is probably somewhat less than this and in less than perfect tune I’m possibly only getting 210 – 220 bhp anyway.
I’m certainly not holding the Laguna to be the equal of the TVR, but I was kind of hoping for more ‘something’ from the Chim.
Mates tell me to stop being a prat and start ‘feeling’ the TVR more.
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love the Chim to bits and look for any excuse to use it – wouldn’t change it at all! Question I have is…. Is it just me not feeling the TVR rush or do I potentially have a power ‘problem’? I have recently been able to keep up with a new Focus ST on 3rd – 4th -5th acceleration but unable to lose a Golf VR6 likewise?
It's not the standing start acceleration I thought would be greater, it's the dropping into 3rd at 60 and not losing people thing!
Now here’s the rub – driving the Chim, I’m not aware of the ‘push in the back’ acceleration I get from the Laguna (mind you, the acceleration is instant, unlike the Laguna which is a tad lagged) – this, I accept, may be because my senses are ‘swamped’ by the noise (which you don’t get in the Laguna!) and the general sporty ‘environment’. Getting up to those high mph’s ‘seems’ to take longer too
Is this just me having had my senses ‘blunted’ by the Laguna, or is the Chim suffering from ‘old age lethargy’ (but it is only 7 years old). I appreciate that in reality the quoted 240bhp is probably somewhat less than this and in less than perfect tune I’m possibly only getting 210 – 220 bhp anyway.
I’m certainly not holding the Laguna to be the equal of the TVR, but I was kind of hoping for more ‘something’ from the Chim.
Mates tell me to stop being a prat and start ‘feeling’ the TVR more.
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love the Chim to bits and look for any excuse to use it – wouldn’t change it at all! Question I have is…. Is it just me not feeling the TVR rush or do I potentially have a power ‘problem’? I have recently been able to keep up with a new Focus ST on 3rd – 4th -5th acceleration but unable to lose a Golf VR6 likewise?
It's not the standing start acceleration I thought would be greater, it's the dropping into 3rd at 60 and not losing people thing!
The last time I drove a Chim, I marvelled at how long legged the gearing is compared to my bonkers 900 Turbo (which incidentally has the low pressure turbo gearing) - on normal driving I found myself to be in second at speeds where I'd already reached for fourth in the Saab. The flip side is, if I give it some and hold the Saab in any gear past 3,500 rpm it feels like being strapped to a g*dd*mn SCUD, which I don't think I could replicate in a 4.0 Chim even though it's probably as fast or faster from 0-60... The MINI has a similar quality to a Chim (on a totally different -lower- level) in that it's quite an easy car to get to 60-70 from rest faster than it's got any right to using those loooong 1st and 2nd gears - but feels really lethargic when on the move and you want to accelerate in any of the higher gears.
From a standing start, the Chim 400 will easily pull away from most other modern machinery, but in the real world, in gear times are all relatively similar. I noticed in Evo that the Seat Leon Cupra R recorded very very similar times to that of my Chim 400, but the 0-60 and 0-100 times were slower than the TVR.
It's all down to gearing - modern cars have very specifically chosen ratios to get the best out of them. I doubt for one minute that TVR put as much consideration into the gearbox.
It's also the same reason why if you floor it in second, you will accelerate quicker than if you do so in third.
The turbo's also exaggerate (sp) the acceleration. I find it amusing driving the company diesel 2.2l Avensis, purely for the lag followed by the push in the seat acceleration - i'm not saying it's quick, it's just the sensation you get!
It's all down to gearing - modern cars have very specifically chosen ratios to get the best out of them. I doubt for one minute that TVR put as much consideration into the gearbox.
It's also the same reason why if you floor it in second, you will accelerate quicker than if you do so in third.
The turbo's also exaggerate (sp) the acceleration. I find it amusing driving the company diesel 2.2l Avensis, purely for the lag followed by the push in the seat acceleration - i'm not saying it's quick, it's just the sensation you get!
hi , i think i understand where you are coming from .. but i have only owned my car now for a month .. and only a few times i have opened it up .. and properly . i think the key is learning to use the car properly .. for example my mr2 is fast when driven properly . but when i have driven the tvr properly it scares me. with your other car it is just standard ratios ,like every other car. learn to use the torque in the tvr as well as the bhp. also the vr6 driver may have been a semi pro rally driver ? who knows ?, but be sure he was prob raging the sh*t out of his car to try and keep up ! and probs chipped it lowered it etc etc. and he may have had girly ABS and TC ..OR STABILATY MANAGEMENT. lots of these new cars do . all these things give confidence .. when the tvr is laughing and sniggering and saying go faster , cos it wants to kill you !
Podie said:
Time to modify... or buy a 450 / 500...
I know the 400 owners will howl their protest, but the 400 just isn't quick enough these days. I was very disappointed with it when I test drove one which was why I bought a 500.
I should point out that I was comparing the 400 with my Corrado VR6 and was seeking a massive increase in performance over the Corrado. The 400 was merely a significant increase.
That and 280bhp (in my 450) just ain't that quick these days. Plenty of mass market cars offering near to it. Coupled with a relatively unsophisticated suspension set up (some owners upgrade) and no electronics it can be hard making full use of the grunt on anything but the dryest of days.
Don said:
....it can be hard making full use of the grunt on anything but the dryest of days.
And thats the fun part of driving them
Part of me really wants and Evo VII+ but whe i really think about it, anyone can get in and drive it faster, cos it does most of it for you. As impressive as it might be, i doubt it woulld be as rewarding as dirving a TVR.
I'm not saying i'm a fantastic driver, but i've learnt so much in the past three years of ownership and still learning more. And having had it on an airfield on a training day, it easily out performed the Elise that was also there.
JonRB said:
I know the 400 owners will howl their protest, but the 400 just isn't quick enough these days. I was very disappointed with it when I test drove one which was why I bought a 500.
Not quite a howl Jon, just a minor disagreement.
Granted the lowly poorper 4.0 is now only marginally quicker than many mass produced tin these days, but holding the revs a little higher than usual more often than not produces the desired effect.
As was said before most cars are developed with the 50 - 70 sprint in mind and I think TVR just threw a load of cogs in a box and stuffed it on, but there is still very, very little out there to match it away from the traffic lights with the exception of course of other TVR's with bigger engines but I defy anyone in the cold light of day to discern (SP?) the 0.75 second difference or so between a 4.0 and a 5.0.
Fact of the matter is, in it's day any TVR was more than a match for the competition, as I see it, they have taken 10 years or so to begin to catch up.
Anyway with the noise and the looks does it really matter if cars with $m's development can almost keep up?
.Mark said:
JonRB said:
I know the 400 owners will howl their protest, but the 400 just isn't quick enough these days. I was very disappointed with it when I test drove one which was why I bought a 500.
Not quite a howl Jon, just a minor disagreement.
Granted the lowly poorper 4.0 is now only marginally quicker than many mass produced tin these days, but holding the revs a little higher than usual more often than not produces the desired effect.
As was said before most cars are developed with the 50 - 70 sprint in mind and I think TVR just threw a load of cogs in a box and stuffed it on, but there is still very, very little out there to match it away from the traffic lights with the exception of course of other TVR's with bigger engines but I defy anyone in the cold light of day to discern (SP?) the 0.75 second difference or so between a 4.0 and a 5.0.
Fact of the matter is, in it's day any TVR was more than a match for the competition, as I see it, they have taken 10 years or so to begin to catch up.
Anyway with the noise and the looks does it really matter if cars with $m's development can almost keep up?
Wot E said!!!!
I originally bought my 400 as having never had a rear wheel drive sports car before I felt I'd better play safe and go for the smaller engine. For the first year this was fine and TBH still is, though there are occasions where I wish I did have more power/bigger engine. However, the 400 can still get you in a lot of trouble and whereas many new cars are almost as quick if not quicker they are all very mundane to drive. The TVR is driven by you, many new cars (espec Evos etc) are driven by computers.
My car will be 10 years old in March and as Mark said in its day there was very little that could keep up.
The most important aspect is fun, I can still kick the arse end out at will, enjoy grin enduing noise every drive and take most of todays cars.
Probably this time next year I'll be selling to upgrade, maybe to another TVR (Tamora) or to something different but until then I still enjoy every drive in the chim regardless of my occasional desire for more oomph!!
Well i went from a 350bhp Nissan Skyline (which i raced against a Carrera 4S from 40-160mph and pulled 1 car length infront)
and my Chim 4.0 HC with a few little mods feels just as quick! Think some people out there need to get thier cars checked over!
A HC or 4.5 chim will do a sub 14 second quarter... not many hot hatches will do that!
and my Chim 4.0 HC with a few little mods feels just as quick! Think some people out there need to get thier cars checked over!
A HC or 4.5 chim will do a sub 14 second quarter... not many hot hatches will do that!
When my TVR got t
tted in Tescos earlier this summer i was given a new 911 S2 to smoke while being repaired, i found the 911 lacking in character, and it wasnt as quick. However at speed it was LOADS more stable, the TVR once upto around the 140ish mark is getting lively! where the 911 you can change the CD! Mine still owes me less than 10K with all the mods done, what else can you get for that? I am looking out the corner of my eye at Vipers now though...
tted in Tescos earlier this summer i was given a new 911 S2 to smoke while being repaired, i found the 911 lacking in character, and it wasnt as quick. However at speed it was LOADS more stable, the TVR once upto around the 140ish mark is getting lively! where the 911 you can change the CD! Mine still owes me less than 10K with all the mods done, what else can you get for that? I am looking out the corner of my eye at Vipers now though...
The contributions in this thread echo a lot of the thoughts I have been having over the last 12 months. I'm on my 2nd 4.0L Chim and at times it hasn't fealt as quick as I would like but at other times it has more than I enough grunt. At this time of yearI have trouble getting anywhere near full warp and I'm sure I wouldn't be any quicker in a 5.0L.
My other car is a tweaked volvo C70 T5 with around 280 ish bhp and altough it feals quicker than the chim (at times) it most definately isn't on a clear dry day. I have noticed that a lot of 'fast' modern tin can stay with me upto 70 (ish) but after that its like they have thrown an anchor out the back.
Perhaps one reason is that as we all know power from these engines can be very variable. A chip and session with Mark Adams on a RR liberated another 30 b.h.p on mine which is about 15% increase as well as extending the rev range of useable power. On a 4.0l a 'poor' engine which is 15% down/running out of puff early would bring it straight into the clutches of the euro boxes wheras with the bigger engine you could still be down but get away with it and not notice. So I suppose IMHO the moral is.....get a bigger engined car.....or make sure your 4.0L is well sorted (which if it is and is reliable....keep old of it!).
My other car is a tweaked volvo C70 T5 with around 280 ish bhp and altough it feals quicker than the chim (at times) it most definately isn't on a clear dry day. I have noticed that a lot of 'fast' modern tin can stay with me upto 70 (ish) but after that its like they have thrown an anchor out the back.
Perhaps one reason is that as we all know power from these engines can be very variable. A chip and session with Mark Adams on a RR liberated another 30 b.h.p on mine which is about 15% increase as well as extending the rev range of useable power. On a 4.0l a 'poor' engine which is 15% down/running out of puff early would bring it straight into the clutches of the euro boxes wheras with the bigger engine you could still be down but get away with it and not notice. So I suppose IMHO the moral is.....get a bigger engined car.....or make sure your 4.0L is well sorted (which if it is and is reliable....keep old of it!).
My (chipped) Lotus Elan SE always felt quicker than my 4.0l Chimaera, but I'm sure it wasn't. I think the feel of the turbo kicking in gave that impression though. The TVR's power is more linear - just picks up and goes rather than any step in power. I have also been surprised that relatively humble cars can pretty much keep up with me, certainly up to legal speeds, but a 1 second 0-60 difference between two cars in fact looks tiny on the road which is why those figures are, I think, a little misleading. I've had chases with all sorts (996s, 360s, most recently 996GT3) and they don't really get away. I've also been with Elise boys and can't lose them. Different power and handling characteristics, braking abilities, driver abilities, etc all make comparisons very difficult. The bottom line is, my TVR sounds great in tunnels and on the over-run, looks brilliant, has plenty of useable grunt and is fun, especially in the wet!
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