Poor hot starting

[Ashy2]

Help or suggestions please. 98 Chimaera 400. Runs sweet no problems and no error codes on ECU. Recently fitted new coil and carbon can due to shit hot starting. When i say hot starting i mean returning to the car after an hour and excessive cranking is required for the motor to fire. Motor again runs sweet after starting. This has only started about 12 months ago. Suggestions please !!

[cmr2payne]

I had this and had my starter replaced and it cure the issue

[tesstickles]

Hello Ashy,

Usually a new starter sorts it out. I'd suggest fitting the hot-start mod from Mod-wise in the first instance. Have you tried starting it say 15min after you stopped? If it doesn't start then it's usually a symtom to heat soak and the mod-wise kit might sort it out for you. As I understand it the heat from the engine increases the resisteant in the wires to the starter with the consequence that there's not enough current to start the engine. Other suggestions will probably come along later.

K

Edited by tesstickles on Monday 12th March 00:28

[Podie]

Check your battery... start the car with the lights on... if they dim, get a new one.

[hut49]

Ashy2 said:

Help or suggestions please. 98 Chimaera 400. Runs sweet no problems and no error codes on ECU. Recently fitted new coil and carbon can due to shit hot starting. When i say hot starting i mean returning to the car after an hour and excessive cranking is required for the motor to fire. Motor again runs sweet after starting. This has only started about 12 months ago. Suggestions please !!

But guys - I'm reading that the engine cranking's fine and that this difficulty is after an hour - I'm not sure that this is a typical hot start, starter motor related problem or a weak battery.

There's a new coil mentioned but nothing about HT leads, distributor cap, plug extender shrouds or plugs. I think we have a weak spark ignition problem here. I'd start by finding a nice dark place and looking for arcing to earth from an HT cable(s). Next I'd check the spark at each of the plugs - if the shrouds are more than a few years old I'd probably replace them anyway. Maybe I'm off down the wrong track but it might be good to keep an open mind on the source of the problem rather than get too focused too soon

[theaxe]

If the starter motor runs then this isn't the typical hot-start problem (however I'd get the mod done anyway).

Sounds to me like HT leads, rotor or dizzy cap. If they're the original ones it'd be a good idea to renew them anyway. Give ACT a call.

[spend]

Does it stink of petrol ~ after being stood or whilst cranking?

Dave

[scaramouch]

hut49 said:

Ashy2 said:

Help or suggestions please. 98 Chimaera 400. Runs sweet no problems and no error codes on ECU. Recently fitted new coil and carbon can due to shit hot starting. When i say hot starting i mean returning to the car after an hour and excessive cranking is required for the motor to fire. Motor again runs sweet after starting. This has only started about 12 months ago. Suggestions please !!

But guys - I'm reading that the engine cranking's fine and that this difficulty is after an hour - I'm not sure that this is a typical hot start, starter motor related problem or a weak battery.

There's a new coil mentioned but nothing about HT leads, distributor cap, plug extender shrouds or plugs. I think we have a weak spark ignition problem here. I'd start by finding a nice dark place and looking for arcing to earth from an HT cable(s). Next I'd check the spark at each of the plugs - if the shrouds are more than a few years old I'd probably replace them anyway. Maybe I'm off down the wrong track but it might be good to keep an open mind on the source of the problem rather than get too focused too soon

I Agree with hut49, not a typical hot start problem cured by fitting the modwise relay.
more likely a weak spark, is the new coil grounded properly? might be worth checking that there is a clean contact between the coil and the engine?

Scaramouch

[Ashy2]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, just to clarify i have fitted new coil and leads from ACT in the last 12 months but this has not improved the situation. Motor is cranking over fine but if i try to start after 15 mins it fires straight away so i have ruled out the battery and the starter. Sounds like a weak spark may well be worth looking into ! Plug extenders are original but cap and rotor was changed about 18 months ago !
Will try some more options like plug extenders and let you know how i get on, thanks agin.

[poorpeet]

Could also be a fuel pressure issue. I may be wrong,& I'm sure some one will say if I am!, but the fuel in the rail should stay under pressure so that as soon as you turn the key the injectors can doo their job. sounds like the pressure is leaking away over time. Hence it fires if you try after a few minutes, ie before the pressure has dropped, but after an hour its leaked away. The time it takes to fire is due to it trying to build pressure AND at the same time replace the fuel going out through the injectors.

That said it's probably an ignition system issue

[Paulathome]

Ashy2,
Sounds like you may have a dodgy temp sensor for the ECU. Not the sensor for the temp gauge but the one for the water temperature that the Ecu reads to decide whether to run rich or lean
for cold starting. Only costs about a tenner and takes about 5 minuits to fit.
Just my tuppence
Cheers
Paul

[edtvr]

Paulathome said:

Ashy2,
Sounds like you may have a dodgy temp sensor for the ECU. Not the sensor for the temp gauge but the one for the water temperature that the Ecu reads to decide whether to run rich or lean
for cold starting. Only costs about a tenner and takes about 5 minuits to fit.
Just my tuppence
Cheers
Paul

Paul, for future reference where is this sensor located?

Thanks
ED

[david beer]

Mine has/ is suffering similar. The petrol fil up time is the critical time, longer and its fine, shorter and its fine. Been off the road since August, so its the first job. I think fuel pressure as everything is new, but the pressure reg has been "squeezed" after the "work" was done on it, i guess raising the pressure, so could the injectors dribble and flood ?

[spend]

david beer said:

Mine has/ is suffering similar. The petrol fil up time is the critical time, longer and its fine, shorter and its fine. Been off the road since August, so its the first job. I think fuel pressure as everything is new, but the pressure reg has been "squeezed" after the "work" was done on it, i guess raising the pressure, so could the injectors dribble and flood ?

Modwise do a hot start kit that is as legendary in fixing these problems as the 100A fuse!

Dave

[chassis 33]

A couple of things, the "priming" of the fuel pump will bring the system up top pressure even if the pressure has leaked away while standing (for reference, it's only a nominal pressure that stays in the line once the pump stops).

Exsessive fuel pressure will reduce the likely hood of a leak, as the injectors open against the pressure of the fuel, however despite what has been said by the great and the good, I've had an engine running on standard injectors at over 100psi, and still giving healthy power (don't ask; I didn't set it like that, I only realised when I switch the fuel off and the engine ran on for 30seconds!)

Quite why you should have a "warm start" problem I'm not 100% sure, have you checked the ignition module and the aluminium plate it's attached to? The module needs to earth via the plate and if that's got a bad earth you'll get a weak spark. If you're not flooding the engine, it would tend to suggest the problem lies with the ECU/fuel side of things not the ignition. You would have to check the feed from the coil to the ECU to make sure a signal was getting to the ECU to fire the injectors, then check the power to the injectors, and finally that the injectors are being fired by the ECU. A quick check you can do is whip off one of the injector leads and put a bulb on a pair of flying leads across the two terminals, if the bulb flashes while you crank, the injectors are being fired. Do this to both banks as the injectors are fired one bank then the next, in-line with the firing order.

Regards
Iain

[Ashy2]

Hot from the garage with burnt wrists. I have fitted a new dizzy cap and rotor this evening. Went out for a run so nice and warm (started first time from cold with new cap and rotor). Went back to the car after 30 mins to try agian, started on turn of the key. Thought job done. Went back 30 - 40 minutes later and guess what, excessive cranking required ????????????????????

[chassis 33]

Just found this article www.rangie.com/articles_topic.php?id=508&cat=7&subCat=51 clutching at straws, but it could be worth checking.

Regards
Iain

[Ashy2]

Thanks chassis 33 i will give that a try this weekend. I have tried everything else! Will let you know how i get on.

[chassis 33]

No worries, while you're tinkering you may want to check through the injection system as a whole. The test sheets are here www.landrover.ee/est/files/manuals it might uncover something amiss.

Regards
Iain

[Ashy2]

Thanks for your help Iain. If nothing else i will keep that document i am sure it will come in handy.
I am expecting a new Temp Thermistor today from TVR Power so i will give that a go aswell. Surely i can sort it this weekend ????????????