Entry to TVR ownership
Discussion
Hello
Before I start, I apologise for a post that may be a frequent one. It is not that I have not done my research and am lazy but that the information I render seems to change daily and with who I speak to on this, so thought I'd scratch your heads.
As the title suggests, I am seriously consdering TVR ownership.
Having been a practcical chap and run saabs for the past eight years with a few offerings from germany all saloons, and having recently been given a second stab at YFS im thinking what the hek-lets get a proper, dedicated motah, without a roof!
I will probably hang on to my tuned up 9000 turbo, so as far as practicality is concerened the new car is simply for driving with a scope to blast off for a weekend or trip away (eg LM).
Now im not the wealthiest of chaps but looking at some of the prices going, the earlier chim is within budget. Perhaps its important to add i'd plan to seriously buy around next xmas or even summer. So presumably prices will drop for the older stuff.
I had also considered, dont cringe now, an early boxster. Simply because it matches the criteria, and is arguably more reliable.However as mentioned earlier, im having a bit of a "balls to sensible" mindset so why play supposedly safe with stuttgarts entry level roadster.
Im good with mechanicals and electrical, ive a BEng in motorsport engineering so this isnt an issue to be DIY and a lot of my earlier turbo nutter barges were rebuilt. Im not so good with the body stuff, so take that into account.
Anyway apart from the ramblings, essenitally:
- What should I expect to pay for a respectable good Chim?
- Im not a Plate snob so age is of no concern
- Anything particular to look for, or to lookout for?
- Best sources of good cars? owners clubs etc?
- Premiums expected to pay for certain type/specs or where the car is
- feelings on classifieds/eBay?
- feelings on dealers/sepcialists ( specialist wouldnt sell me anything under £12k and said anything under £12k would be a POS, very conflicting with what seems to beon the market!)
- any advice other than that for a newbie wannabe?
- meets/clubs to get involved in?
Im in Swansea atm, but am based in the midlands, but will travel for anyhting interesting and to learn more.
Thanks for your time and patience in advance
Ross
Before I start, I apologise for a post that may be a frequent one. It is not that I have not done my research and am lazy but that the information I render seems to change daily and with who I speak to on this, so thought I'd scratch your heads.
As the title suggests, I am seriously consdering TVR ownership.
Having been a practcical chap and run saabs for the past eight years with a few offerings from germany all saloons, and having recently been given a second stab at YFS im thinking what the hek-lets get a proper, dedicated motah, without a roof!
I will probably hang on to my tuned up 9000 turbo, so as far as practicality is concerened the new car is simply for driving with a scope to blast off for a weekend or trip away (eg LM).
Now im not the wealthiest of chaps but looking at some of the prices going, the earlier chim is within budget. Perhaps its important to add i'd plan to seriously buy around next xmas or even summer. So presumably prices will drop for the older stuff.
I had also considered, dont cringe now, an early boxster. Simply because it matches the criteria, and is arguably more reliable.However as mentioned earlier, im having a bit of a "balls to sensible" mindset so why play supposedly safe with stuttgarts entry level roadster.
Im good with mechanicals and electrical, ive a BEng in motorsport engineering so this isnt an issue to be DIY and a lot of my earlier turbo nutter barges were rebuilt. Im not so good with the body stuff, so take that into account.
Anyway apart from the ramblings, essenitally:
- What should I expect to pay for a respectable good Chim?
- Im not a Plate snob so age is of no concern
- Anything particular to look for, or to lookout for?
- Best sources of good cars? owners clubs etc?
- Premiums expected to pay for certain type/specs or where the car is
- feelings on classifieds/eBay?
- feelings on dealers/sepcialists ( specialist wouldnt sell me anything under £12k and said anything under £12k would be a POS, very conflicting with what seems to beon the market!)
- any advice other than that for a newbie wannabe?
- meets/clubs to get involved in?
Im in Swansea atm, but am based in the midlands, but will travel for anyhting interesting and to learn more.
Thanks for your time and patience in advance
Ross
Edited by RosscoDuke on Thursday 22 March 11:01
Ross,
Just been in an identical situation and have since bought a 96 Chim in BRG. I got rid of my other car because I walk to work, so its my only car and has been working ok as that for the 10 days that I have had it. I did the same as you and gathered information on what to look for. Here is what I learned:
1. You want the T5 gearbox - an option before 96 - standard after. You can tell it has a T5 if the door opener is in its own little pocket in the centre console - not down next to the gearstick.
2. Get on your knees and check that the chassis legs underneath the car under the drivers seat are in good condition.
3. Check it has decent make tyres - a sign that the previous owner respected the car and knew what they were dealing with.
4. Read the service history in detail - non specialists generally have no idea what they are doing with a TVR.
5. Try the remote and alarm. I didnt before I bought it and just assumed that they would work and they didnt. The foxqaurd alarm on the early models can have a finite life. Luckily I just needed new remotes which cost £126 but it could easily have cost me £500 for a new alarm.
6. All the usual stuff and Im sure a lot more will be added- I have found that the people on here are very helpful and tend to know what they are on about.
Just been in an identical situation and have since bought a 96 Chim in BRG. I got rid of my other car because I walk to work, so its my only car and has been working ok as that for the 10 days that I have had it. I did the same as you and gathered information on what to look for. Here is what I learned:
1. You want the T5 gearbox - an option before 96 - standard after. You can tell it has a T5 if the door opener is in its own little pocket in the centre console - not down next to the gearstick.
2. Get on your knees and check that the chassis legs underneath the car under the drivers seat are in good condition.
3. Check it has decent make tyres - a sign that the previous owner respected the car and knew what they were dealing with.
4. Read the service history in detail - non specialists generally have no idea what they are doing with a TVR.
5. Try the remote and alarm. I didnt before I bought it and just assumed that they would work and they didnt. The foxqaurd alarm on the early models can have a finite life. Luckily I just needed new remotes which cost £126 but it could easily have cost me £500 for a new alarm.
6. All the usual stuff and Im sure a lot more will be added- I have found that the people on here are very helpful and tend to know what they are on about.
Be very careful what you buy, I bought one which I thought was a good example with plenty of S/H and it ended up letting me down all of the time!
Check, recheck and triple check the outrigger quality, mine looked perfect until I decided to give them another coat of wax oil to find out the previous owner had been covering up allot of rust!
I gave up in the end and sold it, as I just didn’t have the time to get everything sorted.
What ever you do just make sure you don’t go for the cheapest one you can find, as there is probably a reason why it’s cheap!!
Don’t get me wrong, there fantastic cars which go like stink and sound wonderful but can be a handful in the wet and if your not a particularly good driver.....like myself, which is why I went for an elise
Check, recheck and triple check the outrigger quality, mine looked perfect until I decided to give them another coat of wax oil to find out the previous owner had been covering up allot of rust!
I gave up in the end and sold it, as I just didn’t have the time to get everything sorted.
What ever you do just make sure you don’t go for the cheapest one you can find, as there is probably a reason why it’s cheap!!
Don’t get me wrong, there fantastic cars which go like stink and sound wonderful but can be a handful in the wet and if your not a particularly good driver.....like myself, which is why I went for an elise
Ross
this subject is a minefield, and there have been many many threads to this effect.
In my opinion (and somebody will be along shortly to disagree!!) there are a few more permutations to consider:
. pre-serp or serp engine. Someone will have to explain that, as I'd hate to get it wrong !
. the T5 gearbox is, IIRC, identified by reverse being below 5th
. PAS or non-PAS ? You'll only know by driving one of each. Hated the PAS cars myself, but others love 'em
. facelift model (position of door openers, front grill etc)
. engine size; 4,4.3,4.5,5 ? You'll never know until you try !!
When buying, I've learnt to spot the "caring/passionate" owners from the "fancied a powerful sports car" types, and (again, in my opinion) the overall condition and maintenance/history of the car COULD be judged by that.
You could pay roughly £30 to join the TVR Car Club, read the monthly magazine, find some local dealers and a friendly indie, and (most importantly) get along to a local car club meet and talk to some owners.
Enough for now; drop me an email if you think I can be of help.
Mike
this subject is a minefield, and there have been many many threads to this effect.
In my opinion (and somebody will be along shortly to disagree!!) there are a few more permutations to consider:
. pre-serp or serp engine. Someone will have to explain that, as I'd hate to get it wrong !
. the T5 gearbox is, IIRC, identified by reverse being below 5th
. PAS or non-PAS ? You'll only know by driving one of each. Hated the PAS cars myself, but others love 'em
. facelift model (position of door openers, front grill etc)
. engine size; 4,4.3,4.5,5 ? You'll never know until you try !!
When buying, I've learnt to spot the "caring/passionate" owners from the "fancied a powerful sports car" types, and (again, in my opinion) the overall condition and maintenance/history of the car COULD be judged by that.
You could pay roughly £30 to join the TVR Car Club, read the monthly magazine, find some local dealers and a friendly indie, and (most importantly) get along to a local car club meet and talk to some owners.
Enough for now; drop me an email if you think I can be of help.
Mike
There's a buyer's guide and loads of general info on Chimaerapages. Good luck!
There is nothing wrong with buying a "POS" at least you get to rebuild it the way you want it & keep another TVR on the road 
As long as the chassis is good most other things can be replaced without too much trouble, but more importantly enhanced along the way.
It all depends on what you want. I would suspect at the lower end of the market, indie dealers like Aggers would be quite keen to have an outlet for the 'un-pristine' trade-ins.
Dave
As long as the chassis is good most other things can be replaced without too much trouble, but more importantly enhanced along the way. It all depends on what you want. I would suspect at the lower end of the market, indie dealers like Aggers would be quite keen to have an outlet for the 'un-pristine' trade-ins.
Dave
Nick P said:
whoever told you anything under £12k is a pile of shit is wrong. I suspect they were just trying to sell you one of their more expensive cars possibly?
Good older models can be picked up for much less than £12k.
I know i did.
Good older models can be picked up for much less than £12k.
I know i did.
Depends on your perspective, I guess. To me, TVRs are an indulgence, a hobby, and I was/am expecting to encounter some problems along the way that I probably wouldn't accept in a 'normal' runabout that I would rely on to get me to work and back, to run errands, et cetera. To me, good bodywork and chassis, an interior that cleans up nicely and the indication that the car has been enjoyed and maintained regularly are paramount, but I'm sure people expecting the same standard as say, a three year old Beemer, would find most older Tivs with some or most of the 'standard' issues 'a pile of $hit'.
Indeed, taking a lovely old car for not a lot of money considering what it is, and improving on it (and TVRs own standards of the time) as I go is part of the fun to me...
spend said:
It all depends on what you want. I would suspect at the lower end of the market, indie dealers like Aggers would be quite keen to have an outlet for the 'un-pristine' trade-ins.
Dave
Hmmm, James Agger was my first port of call when I got serious about finding a decent cheap one - it seems, though, that he just doesn't get any cars of that sort (at least not any that he'd offload to a punter)...
FWIW I ran a Saab 900i 16v Conv back in the 90's and although it was a great car with good build (pre-GM), it took a lot more fettling than my TVR does to maintain and keep on the road. I guess its horses for courses. The TVR is a hobby & I enjoy uprating it & hoping i can complete some repairs, although so far i've been quite high n dry on that front, leaving me more money to spend on goodies.
Incidentally you can easily get a good Chim for <10k so long as you know what you are looking at & are reasonably competent. Not all low priced cars are cheap because tehy are nasty & not all top end cars are good by any means especially from traders. I would be happy to discuss my experience PPM if you wish
Incidentally you can easily get a good Chim for <10k so long as you know what you are looking at & are reasonably competent. Not all low priced cars are cheap because tehy are nasty & not all top end cars are good by any means especially from traders. I would be happy to discuss my experience PPM if you wish
andy jb said:
FWIW I ran a Saab 900i 16v Conv back in the 90's and although it was a great car with good build (pre-GM), it took a lot more fettling than my TVR does to maintain and keep on the road. I guess its horses for courses.
Interesting!
Ive run every concoction of classic 900/9000/9-3 and 9-5. All of which i played with. Had to change a few gearboxes on a T16S trackcar and I thought this was fairly simple, FYI the engine has to come out and box swapped out. I moderate UKsaabs and we all find saabs fairly uncomplicated to run.
So if the TVR is easier still, it should be a doddle. Rover power/drivetrain and ford running gear?? correct me if im wrong.
OK chaps, thanks a lot for your replies and advice so far.
BTW i was not suggesting that anything under £12k is POS, but pointed out, the indie was mearly only interested in selling his stock. It was a shame as the place has a good rep, David Gerald of Inkberrow?? But he only deals in expensive stuff. What annoyed me, was instead of being subjective and understanding his stock was too rich for me, he simply dismissed me as being unrealistic. A shame and not what I expected from someone who should be passionate about the marque and helpful to the ppl who run/want em, regardless of wether their is financial incentive involved for him or not. Im sure he could have found me something, but he probably wasnt interested in low profit margins for the time involved.
TBH, im thinking as a daily driver. I can't see why they would be a major issue. So it wouldnt need be cosmetically fit. I guess its rust and structure im cautious of, and ive also heard that the powerplant doesnt last much more than 40k without a rebuild of the bottom end?
Im very much a spirited driver but would probably adapt the driving to a laid back approach and respect the beasty and savour the overall noise/feeling.
In short its a car to use, not for carriage but for getting about with a smile on my face all the time. I do like an excuse to pop the bonnet too.
Thanks for your responses again
Ross
theaxe said:
There's a buyer's guide and loads of general info on Chimaerapages. Good luck!
this was particularly useful-thanks
With regards to a Boxster S - well - they are totally different (I bought one from new back in 2001).
Biggest differences for me between the Chimp and the Boxster are :
1. Mind blowing straight line acceleration. I was reading another thread recently and the statement "My 5 litre Chimp still scares me in 1st and 2nd gear".
2. The noise. Even when 'Sunday driving', the RV8 is a lovely sound. I found the Porsche noise quite intrusive and dare I say winy?
3. The way the car is perceived. So many people comment on a TVR - it amazed me when I got mine.
4. Don't be fooled into thinking a Boxster is a 'safer' bet. Boxsters (especially) old ones are expensive to run. Apparently bad on brakes if not used. Plus - a lot of the TVR mechanical jobs can be tackled by a good mechanic. Try asking 911/Boxster drivers how hard it is to fix a car with a broken intermediate shaft failure. Couple of my mates than run 911s say they couldn't afford to run them if it wasnt for the Porsche warranty!
Good points about Boxster -
1. Brakes - superb!
2. Electric roof
3. Two boots (but not as big as chimp)
4. Airbags and possibly PSM
Two different cars.
Me? I'm probably off the Monaro route, but I will miss my Chimaera.
Good luck.
5LitreV8
Biggest differences for me between the Chimp and the Boxster are :
1. Mind blowing straight line acceleration. I was reading another thread recently and the statement "My 5 litre Chimp still scares me in 1st and 2nd gear".
2. The noise. Even when 'Sunday driving', the RV8 is a lovely sound. I found the Porsche noise quite intrusive and dare I say winy?
3. The way the car is perceived. So many people comment on a TVR - it amazed me when I got mine.
4. Don't be fooled into thinking a Boxster is a 'safer' bet. Boxsters (especially) old ones are expensive to run. Apparently bad on brakes if not used. Plus - a lot of the TVR mechanical jobs can be tackled by a good mechanic. Try asking 911/Boxster drivers how hard it is to fix a car with a broken intermediate shaft failure. Couple of my mates than run 911s say they couldn't afford to run them if it wasnt for the Porsche warranty!
Good points about Boxster -
1. Brakes - superb!
2. Electric roof
3. Two boots (but not as big as chimp)
4. Airbags and possibly PSM
Two different cars.
Me? I'm probably off the Monaro route, but I will miss my Chimaera.
Good luck.
5LitreV8
900T-R said:
Nick P said:
whoever told you anything under £12k is a pile of shit is wrong. I suspect they were just trying to sell you one of their more expensive cars possibly?
Good older models can be picked up for much less than £12k.
I know i did.
Good older models can be picked up for much less than £12k.
I know i did.
Depends on your perspective, I guess. To me, TVRs are an indulgence, a hobby, and I was/am expecting to encounter some problems along the way that I probably wouldn't accept in a 'normal' runabout that I would rely on to get me to work and back, to run errands, et cetera. To me, good bodywork and chassis, an interior that cleans up nicely and the indication that the car has been enjoyed and maintained regularly are paramount, but I'm sure people expecting the same standard as say, a three year old Beemer, would find most older Tivs with some or most of the 'standard' issues 'a pile of $hit'.
Indeed, taking a lovely old car for not a lot of money considering what it is, and improving on it (and TVRs own standards of the time) as I go is part of the fun to me...
agree totally.....mine was in pretty good condition when i got it last year, but you can always improve things and make things shinier.
interesting you should mention a BMW....i came from an M3 and couldn't wait to get away from the Germanic interior and bland noise and back to the burble of the V8 and the wobbly dash
Edited by Nick P on Thursday 22 March 14:49
RosscoDuke said:
andy jb said:
FWIW I ran a Saab 900i 16v Conv back in the 90's and although it was a great car with good build (pre-GM), it took a lot more fettling than my TVR does to maintain and keep on the road. I guess its horses for courses.
Interesting!
Ive run every concoction of classic 900/9000/9-3 and 9-5. All of which i played with. Had to change a few gearboxes on a T16S trackcar and I thought this was fairly simple, FYI the engine has to come out and box swapped out. I moderate UKsaabs and we all find saabs fairly uncomplicated to run.
Well, mine has been a bit untypical - but then, after I got an engine built properly (291 bhp and all
) it's only fairly minor stuff that catches me out sometimes (a weekend drive from Rotterdam to the Midlands and back where the engine would give rich stutter all the way as soon as I let the speed drop under a ton or so -not pleasant- turned out to be a broken -custom- fuel regulator bracket causing the fuel regulator to come loose and pull the vacuum line from the intake manifold, for instance) but I agree Saabs aren't bad to work on for modernish cars. Too early to tell about the Tiv - but so far I've been pleasantly surprised by the construction and finish of this early example - nowhere near as bad as I expected... RosscoDuke said:
So if the TVR is easier still, it should be a doddle. Rover power/drivetrain and ford running gear?? correct me if im wrong.
Hmmm, not entirely. Although the steering rack is the only major mechanical component that's entirely of TVR (AJP, in this case
) design, lots of stuff have been modified vs. the (Land Rover) application on the engine side of things, front hubs may be Ford but there's a fair possibility of them having been machined in some way and of course the chassis including wishbones and spring/damper units are bespoke. But the top balljoints at the front are Saab 900. RosscoDuke said:
and ive also heard that the powerplant doesnt last much more than 40k without a rebuild of the bottom end?
Depends on the spec, but as a whole you'd be very unlucky to get no more than that from a TVR RV8 engine. Mine lasted 106K, and the only reason it's coming out is that, as a cooling system failure has resulted in blown headgaskets and the exhaust manifold gaskets need replacing (again), I'm feeling less than comfortable spending three days' worth of labour without having had a closer look at the rest of the engine...
Edited by 900T-R on Thursday 22 March 14:54
Huhm
Thanks!
on the FPR front was it a rising rate jobby (FSE?). And 291 BHP from a 900i? Or are you talkin about a turbo? Still respectable. My Aero puts out about that much plus 400 Nm of torque.
Anyhoo, back on topic.........thanks again.
Im very very very interested and the boxster holds a little bit of bitterness for me (ex's father drove one, and he was a major reason in why she is an ex).
Ideally id love to go to a few meets, and get hooked. A chap mentioned a nice wedge to me. They are more in my price range and sound awesome. But the styling today kind of detracts from them a little.huhm
Thankyou again
Ross
Thanks!
on the FPR front was it a rising rate jobby (FSE?). And 291 BHP from a 900i? Or are you talkin about a turbo? Still respectable. My Aero puts out about that much plus 400 Nm of torque.
Anyhoo, back on topic.........thanks again.
Im very very very interested and the boxster holds a little bit of bitterness for me (ex's father drove one, and he was a major reason in why she is an ex).
Ideally id love to go to a few meets, and get hooked. A chap mentioned a nice wedge to me. They are more in my price range and sound awesome. But the styling today kind of detracts from them a little.huhm
Thankyou again
Ross
From what the OP said he has sound mechanical knowledge.
Service history to some is a wonderfull thin, to others it is not worth the papre it is printed on.
Service history means the owner spent lots of money every 6000 miles....that does not mean they looked after it in between.
Chassis...well if it is your second car and the chassis has rusted outriggers it is a good knockdown point to get the car a bit cheaper...i am replacing my outriggers at the moment and so far it has cost me £23 for the tubes and it is going to cost £130 to get it shotblasted, zinc sprayed and powder coated...if you have the time, space and are stupid enough to do this ( i have two out of three, running out of time...!) then i would seriouosly consider buying a chim with rusted outriggers.
I think it is good to get a POS back up to being a respectable TVR...as said earlier.
If you cant do that kind of work yourself, avoid avoid avoid!!!
Service history to some is a wonderfull thin, to others it is not worth the papre it is printed on.
Service history means the owner spent lots of money every 6000 miles....that does not mean they looked after it in between.
Chassis...well if it is your second car and the chassis has rusted outriggers it is a good knockdown point to get the car a bit cheaper...i am replacing my outriggers at the moment and so far it has cost me £23 for the tubes and it is going to cost £130 to get it shotblasted, zinc sprayed and powder coated...if you have the time, space and are stupid enough to do this (
i have two out of three, running out of time...!) then i would seriouosly consider buying a chim with rusted outriggers. I think it is good to get a POS back up to being a respectable TVR...as said earlier.
If you cant do that kind of work yourself, avoid avoid avoid!!!
Edited by andy-w on Thursday 22 March 15:19
RosscoDuke said:
Huhm
Thanks!
on the FPR front was it a rising rate jobby (FSE?).
Thanks!
on the FPR front was it a rising rate jobby (FSE?).
RosscoDuke said:
And 291 BHP from a 900i? Or are you talkin about a turbo?
T16 engine plus forged Cossie slugs (2.1l) plus T7 head plus DI etc., all in a 5-door ex-T8 shell... Better known under her Christian name Saabine (of Ultimate Saab Day fame). 295 PS/460Nm...
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