New Wishbone Fitting Problems
New Wishbone Fitting Problems
Author
Discussion

sparkythecat

Original Poster:

8,101 posts

285 months

Monday 2nd April 2007
quotequote all
Got some new front lower wishbones and some nice new polywhatsit wishbone bushes and I'm struggling to get the buggers to fit.

Old wishbone



The widest part of this is the steel inner of the wishbone bush which stands proud and is 50.5mm

New Wishbone



Whilst the steel inner of the wishbone bush is exactly the same length as the old one,
the protruding polywhatsit flanges mean that the overall width of the wishbone is 54mm.
As the distance between the wishbone hangers is only 50.5 mm I cant get the new wishbone to fit. The flanges do squish a little bit, but not enough to get the wishbone positioned.

Questions

Have the right bushes been supplied with the wishbones?

How do I get the buggers to fit?

spend

12,581 posts

281 months

Monday 2nd April 2007
quotequote all
Get a big hammer & drift the mounts apart.... They will clamp up again.

Dave

sparkythecat

Original Poster:

8,101 posts

285 months

Monday 2nd April 2007
quotequote all
Spend, there isn't really a lot of room to swing a big hammer and even if I do manage to force the hangers apart, when I tighten them up to the steel inner, won't the the tubular bit of the wishbone cut through the polywhatsit flanges like a pastry cutter?

spend

12,581 posts

281 months

Monday 2nd April 2007
quotequote all
Its what the real men do....

Look at your mounts - I bet they are wider at the back so have deformed - you are just knocking them back to correct shape. Look at old threads on thrust washers if you are interested, if you search old threads the method I described is the only one I can recall. Ive never heard of anyones polybushes having the flanges chewed off....

Dave

V8 Animal

6,015 posts

240 months

Monday 2nd April 2007
quotequote all
Ive just replaces the front and rear bushes with polys.
Yes they are a bast### to do but it can be done.
Best advice i can give you is get one side in and put a thin screwdriver through the bolt hole and use a nylon hammer to help locate the other hole.
Screwdriver is there to help the other side from popping out which will piss you off.
A trolley jack helped me push the wishbone up from underneath also loads of copperslip.
There is no real easy way.
The worst are the metal type instead of nylon where the weld is on the chassis locate that first.
Try and keep the wishbone straight too much of a angle makes it impossible.
Hope that helps you.
Just think how much you are saving by doing it yourself.
Regards
V8 Animal

V8 Animal

6,015 posts

240 months

Monday 2nd April 2007
quotequote all
Have the right bushes been supplied with the wishbones?
Yes

Flintstone

8,644 posts

277 months

Monday 2nd April 2007
quotequote all
It really is a grunt, wallop and bend job (with plenty of lubricant as has already been suggested). I used all sorts of techniques on mine. Nylon mallets, spikes/screwdrivers, drifts, jacks, mole grips, G-clamps, G-strings.............. errr, no sorry. That was something else nuts

sparkythecat

Original Poster:

8,101 posts

285 months

Monday 2nd April 2007
quotequote all
spend said:
Its what the real men do....

Look at your mounts - I bet they are wider at the back so have deformed - you are just knocking them back to correct shape. Look at old threads on thrust washers if you are interested, if you search old threads the method I described is the only one I can recall. Ive never heard of anyones polybushes having the flanges chewed off....

Dave


piemanpaul on another thread 2 years ago said:


As I was putting the lower wishbones in last night with powerflex bushes....on the passenger side I managed to fit the thicker white thrust washers either side of the bush as per instructions but on the driver side I could only fit a thinner black thrust washer on one side of the front bush (and a white+black washer on the other side of the bush). Hence net result is I guess that the drivers side lower wishbone front mount is about 1mm further forward. Is this likely to cause any issue (i.e. should I be dismantling it all and hitting it hard with hammer until it does eventually fit a thicker white washer???)


FFS I'm having enough bother getting the bushes in the hangers. Besides which, I haven't been given any thrust washers. Should I have had some or are they optional extras for those whose bushes are a little sloppy?

(lubricant, sloppy bush, clamps, plenty of hammer grunt, wallop, bang and flange chewing all in the same thread and not a lesbian in sight!)










Edited by sparkythecat on Monday 2nd April 22:04

spend

12,581 posts

281 months

Monday 2nd April 2007
quotequote all
Never heard of thrust washers with poly bushes before TBH. Thrust washers were to pack metalastic bushes which were deforming/distorting mounts cos the sleeve protruded and was the only clamping point, if you see what I mean. It is common that the mount flanges have just closed up - so simply open them out again. This was the advice I was given, by someone with rather a lot of experience, if you want to do it another way thats fine.

Dave

andy-w

1,987 posts

256 months

Tuesday 3rd April 2007
quotequote all
sparkythecat said:
Spend, there isn't really a lot of room to swing a big hammer....


I have got to go down this route....i found if you take the body off you have loads of room to swing a hammer nuts

I have noticed that the wishbone brkts do taper towards the outside...so i am going to measure mine before it goes to the powder coaters and open them up so i can get the new wishbones in easier.

victormeldrew

8,293 posts

307 months

Tuesday 3rd April 2007
quotequote all
Rather than get Irish with the mounts, you could procure a short length of studding (say 10mm thread) and a couple of nuts. Push the studding through one of the mount holes, put the nuts on the studding between the flanges with a washer first and last, and push through the other hole. Apply grease to washers and flanges. Now with two spanners wind the nuts in opposite directions to push against the flange and force them apart. Go slightly wider than the bushes, they will pull back when you bolt up, and you'll be thankfull of the extra clearance as you fit the wishbones back.

This will work where you can't get in with a hammer, and is slightly more scientific.

If you ask me your bushes aren't in far enough anyway. You did sand away the plastic coating on the inside and grease before insertion? (ooo-er!). You could try a similar trick to the above but use studding, nuts and washers to compress the bushes in.

The thrust washers are in the Powerflex bushes - yours look like Superflex, the purple ones that I've just replaced because some melted. The Superflex (at least when I fitted them a few years ago) have a top hat shape, with the "washer" moulded in.

The Powerflex bushes have a metal pin, two thin cylindrical metal glacier bearings, two cylindrical moulded bushes, and depending on location either two white plastic washers or one white plastic washer and a thinner black one where the pin has a metal "washer" built in. They can be fun to locate if you try to insert them straight, but put one end in then pivot the other end in place and you only have to hold one washer in place and they go in pretty easily. A largish allen key is a godsend when trying to align the bush to insert the bolt; you can insert the smaller end and use it as a lever to fine tune the position.



Edited by victormeldrew on Tuesday 3rd April 09:07

sparkythecat

Original Poster:

8,101 posts

285 months

Tuesday 3rd April 2007
quotequote all
victormeldrew said:
Rather than get Irish with the mounts, you could procure a short length of studding (say 10mm thread) and a couple of nuts. Push the studding through one of the mount holes, put the nuts on the studding between the flanges with a washer first and last, and push through the other hole. Apply grease to washers and flanges. Now with two spanners wind the nuts in opposite directions to push against the flange and force them apart. Go slightly wider than the bushes, they will pull back when you bolt up, and you'll be thankfull of the extra clearance as you fit the wishbones back.

This will work where you can't get in with a hammer, and is slightly more scientific.


Thanks for that Victor. In an inspirational moment this morning whilst 'dropping the kids off at the pool' , I'd come up with the same solution. I'll give it a go and report back.

However, I dont think scraping a few microns of plastic coating off is going to give me the extra 3mm+ of clearance that I'm looking for

ATG

23,811 posts

302 months

Tuesday 3rd April 2007
quotequote all
victormeldrew said:
Rather than get Irish with the mounts ...
Oirish bloke still seeing double from last night said:
Say dat again and Oi'll murders t'pair of yah
p.s. good idea that with the studding

v8sag

827 posts

240 months

Tuesday 3rd April 2007
quotequote all
So if I have the superflex bushes do I need to use a thrust washer,bit worried now as I dont want to smash the crap out of a freshly painted chassis.

spend

12,581 posts

281 months

Tuesday 3rd April 2007
quotequote all
The thrust washers were only for metalastic bushes ~ which kind of floated around, and packed the bush outer to a similar width as the centre. The two piece top hat bushes just slot straight in.

I can see the logic in using studding, but... you will need a lot of washers of ascending diameters to spread the load; will it spread out the flanges centrally with regard to the wishbone/chassis c/l?; is it any less damaging than drifting the flange out (block of wood whatever); it will take much longer.

The hammer is an invaluable engineering tool and it saddens me how much it is maligned, it is a fine implement which can be played with as much variation as any musical instrument.

Dave
Use of studding does sound a bit gay to me - when you could just use a hammer. Maybe I am just too old school..

victormeldrew

8,293 posts

307 months

Tuesday 3rd April 2007
quotequote all
ATG said:
victormeldrew said:
Rather than get Irish with the mounts ...
Oirish bloke still seeing double from last night said:
Say dat again and Oi'll murders t'pair of yah
p.s. good idea that with the studding

victormeldrew

8,293 posts

307 months

Tuesday 3rd April 2007
quotequote all
sparkythecat said:
victormeldrew said:
stuff


Thanks for that Victor. In an inspirational moment this morning whilst 'dropping the kids off at the pool' , I'd come up with the same solution. I'll give it a go and report back.

However, I dont think scraping a few microns of plastic coating off is going to give me the extra 3mm+ of clearance that I'm looking for
The plastic coating causing the grief it that inside the wishbone end which prevents the bush from sliding into place - slight square peg in round hole syndrome. The Powerflex instructions specifically mention removing and coating or paint finish. It doesn't look from the pics that the bushes have slid home fully, you have a good couple of mm each end between the wishbone and the "cap" of the bush material.

spend

12,581 posts

281 months

Tuesday 3rd April 2007
quotequote all
The metal sleeve in the centre gives you a good indication of the measuremnets the flanges should accept & the top hats should be inserted to. If you still have one to hand use it as a guide...

Dave

sparkythecat

Original Poster:

8,101 posts

285 months

Tuesday 3rd April 2007
quotequote all
Well, gay idea or not, the studding idea did the trick thumbup

Thanks guys

And as a special thanks to Spend - a link to some famous artists performing the engineer's favourite song.

clicky

victormeldrew

8,293 posts

307 months

Tuesday 3rd April 2007
quotequote all
For some reason I always thought that was the Mamas and the Papas - Peter, Paul and Mary, who'd have thought!

Glad you got sorted, nice one.