Gearbox & diff oil

[TVR keith]

Please could someone tell me what oil to put in these. Car is not used for track days or extreme action!
It's a 2000 450
I have tried in vain to get the Mobil products

[chrispitman]

Give these Guys a call http://www.opieoils.co.uk/

[tvrbob]

Depends which model of dif, different Chim/Griff difs use different grade oils. Be very careful to use the right grade of dif oil. A drop of the wrong stuff and the LSD will be screwed. Ask you friendly dealer for advice first. There isn't a single answer that suits all Chims

[paulathome]

Keith, yours is a 2000 so has the T5 box and these use ATF 220 which is auto gearbox fluid and power steering fluid which is easy to get hold of.
The Diff oil is a different matter.
Look on the TVR car parts web site www.racetechdirect.co.uk they have the right stuff for the diff.
Not cheap though.
I think you can also order direct from the Millers Oils web site as well.
Hope this helps.
Paul

[350Matt]

Use the castrol 75W-90 Snythrax for the gearbox ( Halfords sell it) and a 80W/90 limited slip differential oil for the diff, the Valvoline one works well I've found.


ATF for the gearbox is what Borg warner / tremec originally specified I know, however a conversation I had a couple of years ago with their chief R &D man confirmed that it was just to save costs. The ATF is rubbish at protecting the gears and bearings although it does give slightly better synchro mesh performance when its stone cold.

Matt

[poorpeet]

I'm sure I read some thing similar about the Rover SD1 box. Some one had had their box rebuilt by a specialist who had been a development engineer at Rover & also recommended a gear oil rather than ATF.
The fact that I can't remember what the oil the was rather negates the point of telling this tale but I'm sure some one out there will know.

[Ribol]

T5 gearbox oil is normal ATF fluid(as in automatic transmission fluid).

Diff oil - just rebuilt my BTR diff and the oil I used(100% correct) is:

Morris LODEXOL XFS 80W/140

It is equivalent to the OE spec oil, lots of other makes around like Millers, Mobil etc do their equivalent but it must be only that type/grade or you will be in trouble.

[nicktowe]

poorpeet said:

I'm sure I read some thing similar about the Rover SD1 box. Some one had had their box rebuilt by a specialist who had been a development engineer at Rover & also recommended a gear oil rather than ATF.
The fact that I can't remember what the oil the was rather negates the point of telling this tale but I'm sure some one out there will know.

The SD1 gearbox is actually called an LT177 and ATF fluid as specced by Rover will kill it quite quickly, as it is just too thin especially when hot. If you have this type of gearbox then you can buy online from a company call Difflock, a gear oil specially developed for the LT177. Its called Evolution, and i use it in my G33. I had given me much smoother gearchange. Also remember that the box does not have synchromesh on reverse so its best to go into first before selecting reverse.

[TVR keith]

Thanks for that guys, that diff oil sure is pricey! Makes the price of vodka look cheap.........

[2Munkys]

350Matt said:

Use the castrol 75W-90 Snythrax for the gearbox ( Halfords sell it) and a 80W/90 limited slip differential oil for the diff, the Valvoline one works well I've found.


ATF for the gearbox is what Borg warner / tremec originally specified I know, however a conversation I had a couple of years ago with their chief R &D man confirmed that it was just to save costs. The ATF is rubbish at protecting the gears and bearings although it does give slightly better synchro mesh performance when its stone cold.

Matt

Hmm, Matt I don't understand the 'saving costs' bit; who would be saving and how? The cost of two litres of oil, of whatever type, compared to the cost of a gearbox is negligible. I've just changed the ATF in my T5; that which came out looked as good as new: no discolouration, debris or deposits after 8,500 miles. The replacement ATF was spec'd for the gearbox in the latest Valvoline catalogue.

[Ribol]

TVR keith said:

Thanks for that guys, that diff oil sure is pricey! Makes the price of vodka look cheap.........

Check out the Morris one

[Ribol]

350Matt said:

80W/90 limited slip differential oil for the diff

The BTR diff should not have anything other than 80W/140 in it - don't know if the GKN one is any different though?

[350Matt]

2Munkys said:

350Matt said:

Use the castrol 75W-90 Snythrax for the gearbox ( Halfords sell it) and a 80W/90 limited slip differential oil for the diff, the Valvoline one works well I've found.


ATF for the gearbox is what Borg warner / tremec originally specified I know, however a conversation I had a couple of years ago with their chief R &D man confirmed that it was just to save costs. The ATF is rubbish at protecting the gears and bearings although it does give slightly better synchro mesh performance when its stone cold.

Matt

Hmm, Matt I don't understand the 'saving costs' bit; who would be saving and how? The cost of two litres of oil, of whatever type, compared to the cost of a gearbox is negligible. I've just changed the ATF in my T5; that which came out looked as good as new: no discolouration, debris or deposits after 8,500 miles. The replacement ATF was spec'd for the gearbox in the latest Valvoline catalogue.

When you're making 4 million motor cars and you have to hold a special oil just for the gearbox it costs time and money. If you can get away with ATF (which you can if its not too heavily loaded) its a cost saving as you only have to save 1 dollar / car when you're making 4 million cars.

Bear in mind tremec rate the T5 to 300ft/lb and there are quite a few TVR's out there over this figure

Fit ATF if you want, just don't come crying to me when 5th gear has welded itself to the shaft

Matt

[Ribol]

350Matt said:

When you're making 4 million motor cars and you have to hold a special oil just for the gearbox it costs time and money. If you can get away with ATF (which you can if its not too heavily loaded) its a cost saving as you only have to save 1 dollar / car when you're making 4 million cars.

The only problem with that theory is that we are not talking about a manufacturer that built 4 million motor cars are we?
TVR probably got through less lubricants than most decent sized garages, what they put in gearboxes/diffs they fitted from new would have been their choice and the same applies to what they recommended their dealers to use during servicing.

[K4TRV]

nicktowe said:

poorpeet said:

I'm sure I read some thing similar about the Rover SD1 box. Some one had had their box rebuilt by a specialist who had been a development engineer at Rover & also recommended a gear oil rather than ATF.
The fact that I can't remember what the oil the was rather negates the point of telling this tale but I'm sure some one out there will know.

The SD1 gearbox is actually called an LT177 and ATF fluid as specced by Rover will kill it quite quickly, as it is just too thin especially when hot. If you have this type of gearbox then you can buy online from a company call Difflock, a gear oil specially developed for the LT177. Its called Evolution, and i use it in my G33. I had given me much smoother gearchange. Also remember that the box does not have synchromesh on reverse so its best to go into first before selecting reverse.

Try this link: http://www.difflock.com/cgi-bin/wm10/wm10_02606/st...

[2Munkys]

350Matt said:

2Munkys said:

350Matt said:

Use the castrol 75W-90 Snythrax for the gearbox ( Halfords sell it) and a 80W/90 limited slip differential oil for the diff, the Valvoline one works well I've found.


ATF for the gearbox is what Borg warner / tremec originally specified I know, however a conversation I had a couple of years ago with their chief R &D man confirmed that it was just to save costs. The ATF is rubbish at protecting the gears and bearings although it does give slightly better synchro mesh performance when its stone cold.

Matt

Hmm, Matt I don't understand the 'saving costs' bit; who would be saving and how? The cost of two litres of oil, of whatever type, compared to the cost of a gearbox is negligible. I've just changed the ATF in my T5; that which came out looked as good as new: no discolouration, debris or deposits after 8,500 miles. The replacement ATF was spec'd for the gearbox in the latest Valvoline catalogue.

When you're making 4 million motor cars and you have to hold a special oil just for the gearbox it costs time and money. If you can get away with ATF (which you can if its not too heavily loaded) its a cost saving as you only have to save 1 dollar / car when you're making 4 million cars.

Bear in mind tremec rate the T5 to 300ft/lb and there are quite a few TVR's out there over this figure

Fit ATF if you want, just don't come crying to me when 5th gear has welded itself to the shaft

Matt

I won't, . . . . and I wasn't looking for a fight; I just hoped that you could have elaborated on the Top R&D man's theory. I just didn't, and still don't, get the 'cost saving' idea which is why I asked the question. I, like most like to come to an informed concensus on interesting topics such as these. I'm no tribologist and so tend to stick to the manufacturers recommendations. And that isn't a denial of there possibly being something more suitable these days.

My contribution was simply to state that I've seen no evidence of a deterioration of gearbox internals using ATF and my old motor was capable of putting out more than 300 lbs ft; indeed it has done on several occasions up the quarter. I do have a slight concern for shearing 5th of the end of the shaft with nearer 400 lbs ft from the new motor though. I'll go crying to Gearbox Man if that happens.

[350Matt]

Ribol said:

350Matt said:

When you're making 4 million motor cars and you have to hold a special oil just for the gearbox it costs time and money. If you can get away with ATF (which you can if its not too heavily loaded) its a cost saving as you only have to save 1 dollar / car when you're making 4 million cars.

The only problem with that theory is that we are not talking about a manufacturer that built 4 million motor cars are we?
TVR probably got through less lubricants than most decent sized garages, what they put in gearboxes/diffs they fitted from new would have been their choice and the same applies to what they recommended their dealers to use during servicing.

Thing is TVR would used what Tremec told them to use and Tremec use ATF as the T5 is used in mustangs, sierra cosworths etc etc, these ARE made in the millions.

So yes TVR's choice was the ATF it was also wrong but only because of an oversight on Tremec's part.

I've worked a bit with the T5 box rebuilt them quite a few times. ATF is rubbish at providing gear and bearing protection compared to decent gear oil. As there is no bearing under 5th gear it just runs on the case hardened shaft, so any high separating loads can force the gear through the lubrication film and into the shaft. Use of a higher shear strength oil can help alleviate this.

I'm not trying to p'ss anyone off just trying to pass on what I've learned, I wouldn't recommend anything I don't use myself

Matt

[Ribol]

350Matt said:

I'm not trying to p'ss anyone off just trying to pass on what I've learned, I wouldn't recommend anything I don't use myself

Do you honestly think that posting stuff like “Fit ATF if you want, just don't come crying to me when 5th gear has welded itself to the shaft” is going to help then?

Maybe you are right and Tremec, TVR and Competition Transmission Services(they only recommend ATF in any of their T5 rebuilds) etc etc have all got it wrong but I guess it is up to anyone reading this to decide whose knowledge/experience they value more and make a decision based on that.

[spend]

I think I would follow Matts advice, if I had a T5... When I have a spare LT77 I think I would try and see if the oil pump could cope with a proper oil anyway

Dave

[350Matt]

Dave
I ran the 75W-90 in my old wedge (LT77 box) my about 70K miles with no issues and that was putting out 270ish ponies
I've also pumped it in on my griff (also an LT box) and its a sweeter shift than before and slightly quieter

My mates Lambo also benefited hugely from this oil, sounded like it was going to self destruct with the stuff it did have in it.

Matt