better handling...
Discussion
The sky's the limit, but bear in mind that the more you focus on a setup suitable for the track, the less suitable you'll find it for general mooching along on the road. I suggest you have a chat with some of the well known suspension specialists (Track Car Solutions, Absolutely Shocks, Steve Guglielmi etc) to get a feeling for the options.
Rollbars to stiffen chassis, adjustable wishbones, ARBs, R888's, are you including braking?, subtle aerodynamics, hours of tweaking setups....
Still think the major difference people will notice is finding spring rates suited to their driving style (& weight possibly
) - one size does not fit all IMHO.
Dave
Still think the major difference people will notice is finding spring rates suited to their driving style (& weight possibly
) - one size does not fit all IMHO.Dave
CLN1 said:
I had the geometry set up on our Griff and that made huge difference.
Colin.
Agree - assuming normal tolerances on all the key components, correct tyres properly inflated then getting the geometry set up has to be the first thing to do. Only then if the handling is inadequate for the intended use, does it make sense to start replacing/upgrading parts.Colin.
So if you want to improve wheres the best starting point?
Ive so far done avo shocks on standard springs new set of standard bushes. But it still does not seem to handle as well as when I had it with standard shocks and avon tyres.
Can tyres make that much diffence or do you think ive simply got used to my current setup?
Ive so far done avo shocks on standard springs new set of standard bushes. But it still does not seem to handle as well as when I had it with standard shocks and avon tyres.
Can tyres make that much diffence or do you think ive simply got used to my current setup?
..but matching the shocks and springs is critical - they work together. While the original-fit Bilstein shocks on my 450 were unavailable a couple of years back I tried a set of AVOs with the original springs (15k miles on the clock) and it was cr@p. I changed back to Bilsteins and had the full laser geometry set up and it was brill. The difference was dramatic. I was so confident in the handling after that I realized just how bad things can get when the basics aren't correct and no amount of expensive, unnecessary upgrades are going to improve things diddly-squat unless the set up is right. Driving some other Chimaeras after going through this enlightening experience showed me what a pile of poo most owners are driving around in the ignorant belief that "they all do that".
So would you recommend i junk the Avo's and revert back or is there a spring thats more suited to the avo's. The avo's are fully adjustable bump/rebound an ride height so you should be able to replicate the bilstein settings shouldt you???
Be interested to here from any avo upgraded owners and there curent experience.
Be interested to here from any avo upgraded owners and there curent experience.
I had AVOs before and was recommended to junk the dual rate springs for a good single rate set that I sourced from Trackcar Solutions. It certainly made a positive improvement.
(I've since swapped everything to Nitrons and have been meaning to stick the old setup in the classifieds for ages.)
Dumbfunk
(I've since swapped everything to Nitrons and have been meaning to stick the old setup in the classifieds for ages.)
Dumbfunk
I have made several changes to help the car handle better. In order of effectiveness as I see it.
Alignment (cheap, easy and surprisingly effective)
Front adjustable dampers and stiffer springs (less dipping under braking and cornering)
Lots of track time (that big nut behind the wheel can often benefit from adjustment)
Tyres at the right pressures (no not the book pressures, they are simply wrong)
Front brake callipers, disks and quality pads (awesome)
Rear adjustable dampers and stiffer springs (still not worked out the best track setup on mine)
Wider rear tyres (makes the car feel better planted on the road)
I do have to adjust the dampers but that's easy. I have worked out summer, winter and track settings so it's not trial and error anymore; it's just a 5min set up. Be careful though, track settings on a wet country road will have you shiny side down very quickly.
Alignment (cheap, easy and surprisingly effective)
Front adjustable dampers and stiffer springs (less dipping under braking and cornering)
Lots of track time (that big nut behind the wheel can often benefit from adjustment)
Tyres at the right pressures (no not the book pressures, they are simply wrong)
Front brake callipers, disks and quality pads (awesome)
Rear adjustable dampers and stiffer springs (still not worked out the best track setup on mine)
Wider rear tyres (makes the car feel better planted on the road)
I do have to adjust the dampers but that's easy. I have worked out summer, winter and track settings so it's not trial and error anymore; it's just a 5min set up. Be careful though, track settings on a wet country road will have you shiny side down very quickly.
bobfather said:
...(that big nut behind the wheel can often benefit from adjustment)
I'm still searching for a bobfather said:
..Be careful though, track settings on a wet country road will have you shiny side down very quickly.
I don't really understand that??? Are you using the dampers to excessively stiffen the springs? I really find much stiffer springs the better option - but you need dampers valved to suit & AFIK only Joo has gone down this path. Nitrons do have the advantage that it is easier to swap springs BTW, like many in hindsight I would have saved money buying Nitrons straight away rather than migrating via Avos Dave
neal1980 said:
what poundage and spring length did you use???
Just checked back and Joo's recommendation was 350lb front and 275lb rear for general fast road use. Based upon hearing my usage of the car Joolz told me:"AVOs have a non-configurable bump to rebound ratio on there off the shelf dampers so it limits you on spring choice, but you can safely goto 350 pounds on the front without problems. On the rear you really need to be generating as much traction as you can .. the good thing is that this means a soft spring which the avos like due to that lack of valving adjustment bump to rebound again. On the rear you sound like you need some kind of load carrying ability .. on a car that didn't do the holiday run I would advise 250 on the rear .. for you going to 275 would be beneficial and the stiffness of the front end will help keep the balance to the front of the car."
Helpful and knowledgeable as ever. Make me an offer if you want them - they were £150 new. For full disclosure I should tell you though that if I were buying dampers again I would bite the £1100 bullet just go right for Nitrons.
Hope this helps
dumbfunk
spend said:
bobfather said:
..Be careful though, track settings on a wet country road will have you shiny side down very quickly.
I don't really understand that??? Are you using the dampers to excessively stiffen the springs? I really find much stiffer springs the better option - but you need dampers valved to suit & AFIK only Joo has gone down this path. Nitrons do have the advantage that it is easier to swap springs BTW, like many in hindsight I would have saved money buying Nitrons straight away rather than migrating via Avos Dave
I think the problem is that if you wind up the dampers stiff to assist the springs in bump, it actually increases the rebound rate even more - so you end up with the wheels not getting back down very quickly. The damper tends to be a static force, but when the spring is extremely compressed it boings back like a gun - recoil takeoff of the back wheels is the most unpleasant thing I have experienced in the TVR. If you have a local hump back bridge you can experiment with settings as long as you have the sense to feel the backend going light :shudder:
Dave
Dave
spend said:
I think the problem is that if you wind up the dampers stiff to assist the springs in bump, it actually increases the rebound rate even more - so you end up with the wheels not getting back down very quickly.
Exactly what I was thinking. I need track time soon so that I can try it out.There is a point where too much rebound becomes unhelpful but I do prefer a higher rebound to bump ratio on the rear of most Tivs to aid traction and yes it will hold down when you bounce it but that also means that when you hit bump in a corner or on a roundabout that you will have force keeping the rubber on the black stuff, simplistic I know but cars running on OEM do have traction problems on a regular basis and its down to lack of rebound IMHO (and possibly a bit more rear toe).
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