Remapping existing chip or new one

[thegman]

I have recently spoken to a well known TVR garage who are quoting 750+VAT for a remapping (inc before + after RR) of my existing ECU chip (I am assuming that my ECU is standard). They claim this will improve things dramatically. So some Qs

- What would the advantages be of putting in a new chip like the Mark Adams one I have heard so much about
- What is the cost of a new ECU chip
- Is it plug and play?
- Does this seem like a reasonable quote?

Thanks Dudes.

[Pupp]

It's not an unreasonable amount for the job you describe if it results in the outcome you want and there's cetainly much that can be done to improve/build on the oem set up. All I've read on here and elsewhere confirms this is an impressively capable system when understood and working properly, especially given the comparatively old school technology at work. Understanding it and getting it working properly can be quite a task however

Having said that, the money you mention is not far off the territory of fully mappable fuel and ign a la Emerald etc, that should more than reward the effort/investment too. Depends what you're looking for but for me, the clincher was the loss of the mechanical distributor and (I hope) much improved flexibility/tunability which is why I'm going down this route after upgrading the stock kit.

Just make sure the stock system is 'right' before parting with big bucks however, many aren't and sorting the niggles can have big impacts on performance/feel.

[thegman]

Thanks. hmm

so have you put a coil into your chim then? is this a standard upgrade?

[V8 GRF]

For a proper setup with Emerald and distributorless ignition be aware you're going to paying well into the £2k zone. I think you need to be looking at opening up the breathing of the engine with a larger flow meter, larger machined plenum, smooth intake pipes etc etc as you add the new chip before going the full electronic route, unless of course you can afford to pay for it all at the same time

If you're retaining the Lucas ECU then you really need to be getting a Mark Adams session on a rolling road to get the best from your outlay.

[thegman]

ok thanks.

so if i went to mark and said: "give me one of your chips and tune the car as well" what is that likely to cost?

The thing is if I am going to be charge 750 + VAT anyway just to tune the OEM chip, figure I might as well get Mark put a new chip in. I have seen them at about 750 I think, so do you think we are talking about 1500 for Mark to put a new chip in and do the business?

also how do I get in touch with mark!

[Steve_T]

If you're staying with the Lucas setup, go with Mark, it's probably easiest to get in touch with him via Austec. If you're looking at mapped ignition, you can go with a complete replacement ECU such as Emerald, or Mark adds on an Omex system on to the original ECU to do it, the Lucas being retained to do the fueling.

Steve.

[thegman]

err. it was austec who told me they didnt do a rechip!?

any clues? guess I better go back to them.

[V8 GRF]

thegman said:

err. it was austec who told me they didnt do a rechip!?

any clues? guess I better go back to them.

Maybe they meant they didn't just sell chips to plug in? They usually do upgrades along with a MA session.

[Steve_T]

thegman said:

err. it was austec who told me they didnt do a rechip!?

any clues? guess I better go back to them.

Mark sells generic chips. Austec don't, hence what they told you. Mark does use the rollers at Austec when he's mapping - visits them a few days a month. He also uses other rollers (he's based in Shropshire), but they're further away, hence my suggestion of booking through Austec. If you want a bespoke chip, either Paul or Tom at Austec can sort you out too.

Steve.

[nicktowe]

TVR power have a selection of chips with different maps and will do an RR tune. They did this with my car swappingthe chips and findingthe best one for the car. Not as good as a remap, but their chips are £110 plus VAT and ithing the rolling road is £55 per hour.

The rolling Road session and some tweaks by TVR power gave me about 20 extra BHP.

[blitzracing]

Dont bother with a bespoke chip if you have a 3.9. The TVR mapping is spot on, and really cant be bettered. The Adams chips are better on the bigger engines due to getting the airflow / fueling scaling correct for higher air volumes. Dont forget the ECU mixture is lambda controlled for normal running, so it can overide the fixed part of the fuel map anyway. The only advantage here is you can reduce the amount of correction the ECU has to do, and can improve low speed running if the origional map is a long way out (read- if you have modified your engine). If the engine runs lean at full power,(outside lamda control) a fuel pressure regulator could give you the tad extra you need without a remap, as lambda correction can compensate for the extra fuel at lower speeds within reason. As already stated get everthing else spot on first before suspecting your fuel map. As for who can do chips, you need the Lucas Developement unit (a separate ECU you plug in that can be programmed) to develop the new map, and they are pretty rare. Hence the very few real specialists, but lot of people who would love your money!

Mark.

[GreenV8S]

blitzracing said:

Dont bother with a bespoke chip if you have a 3.9. The TVR mapping is spot on, and really cant be bettered.

Really? Mine only picked up a few bhp but the tractability and throttle response improved significantly after Mark worked his magic on it.

[blitzracing]

I was certainly impressed with the fueling pattern when observing the mixture during road testing, it was streets ahead of the standard Range Rover map (you could watch the fueling run lean over 4500 rpm), to the point the TVR map was either happily running lambda or around 12.1 open loop under load. I also spoke to Dom at TVR who reckoned it could not be improved significantly, unlike the bigger engines. Im sure you could tweek a few horsepower more by bespoke mapping for your particular engine,(after all no two engines are the exactly the same) but as most of the map is under lambda control, you can only really alter the final power output in the open loop area. Its possible (say) if your fuel pressure was slightly higher or lower than TVR's test setup, then poor low speed driveabilty was caused by too much lambda compensation. Mark could dial this out by altering the map. You can also get apparent changes in the mixture with timing varations. Just too many variables. All it boils down to is £700 is a huge amount for a few (possible) BHP. The current plan is to fit a fuel pressure regulator, and wind it up and down untill it looses lambda control at either end of the mixture then set it mid point to minimise compensation. If you can then still maintain 12.1 open loop things should be spot on. May not be possible however due to the wide range of mixture adjustment the ECU can manage, but wont know untill I try it.

Mark

[Chimjunkie]

Absolutely essential if you have other mods like heads, inlet manifolds, cam etc. Otherwise a lot of money for possibly not much gain IMHO. Mark did my car after the above mods and transformed the car.

[Petros]

Get in touch with Ian at Torque RVT in Middlewich. Just released a new airflow Meter with a large bore plenum for £600 exchange. Had this fitted to my 450 by them, wow, what a difference, the chip is a standard one supplied by Dom at central and seems more than adequate .

[blitzracing]

We have not anwered the basic question posed, as to whether to remap or rechip. Both the "bespoke" chip and TVR chip use the same parameters that can be tweeked. Im sure it should be possible to load the TVR map into the development unit and make the nessasary alterations (if needed), without purchasing a bespoke map in the first place. I see these are now at £425, that would pay for about 6 hours of rolling road time or so on the tweeking TVR map. Im sure it would not take that long to get it spot on, so should cost a lot less overall. If you use Mark Adams I would of thought he would program a new chip with one of his scamblers to stop it being copied, but the origional TVR chip can be eraised and reused, but of course could then be copied easily. Whether it should be scrambled or not depends if you think you now own the copyright on the altered data having payed for the development work....Thats a whole different area! I pay only £1 for blank chips currently. You do have the problem that the development units are so rare that this really sets the market price for this type of work. I thought I had found a damaged one, that I might have been able to repair but it had been thrown away!!