longer oil change intervals with ester base oils?

[stefan1200]

Hi all,

after reading several posts on oil here I went for Motul 10w-40 in my Chim500, which is, like the Silkolene, a fully synthetic ester based oil.

I understand it's a racing oil; will this have the same detergents to keep the engine clean internally?

Rob (v8racing) wrote that you can keep the oil in longer, even up to 12 k. Is that really possible or would you change earlier anyway?

Regards,
Stefan

[Barreti]

Why risk an shagging the engine based on what some marketing nerk thinks will convince you to buy their oil.
Use it by all means to look after the engine - every little helps IMHO - but there is no way I'd run longer than 5k before an oil change.

ETA: I use the Silkolene version and it will get dropped at around 3,500 miles as usual

Edited by Barreti on Monday 5th November 08:48

[spend]

I would just change the filter more often, then you can keep an eye on the colour of the oil. Personally I drain & strain, if it still looks good it goes back. An oil cooler also will keep your oil in long chains for longer.

Dave

[v8 racing]

I seriously hope that the comment about the marketing nerk is not aimed at me.

[stefan1200]

@Baretti

3k oil change was also my thinking; this will be appx every 9-12 month.


@Spend

Dave,
3k change will take care of oil and filter then.



I'm still a bit worried about another possible aspect of ester oils.

One german oil specialist from a big german car building company posts around in forums, saying that ester oils could be agressive to gaskets and soft metall like bearing shells etc. and could lead to early damage.

I'd very much appreciate opinions on this.


Many thanks,
Stefan

[stefan1200]

Rob,

I'm glad you're here!

Could you possibly comment on the possible gasket/bearing shell damage by ester oil?

Stefan

[spend]

That Daddy said:

WTFhow do you strain oil Spend?the chemicals wear down in use Dave,straining wont do s*it.No offense Dave by the way

I have lots of paint filters, and just pour it through a funnel to see if there is any crap. Never heard of the collection of garbage in peoples sumps?

'The chemicals' I assume you are referring to are the long chain polymers which modify the way the oils retain viscosity over a range of temperatures. These are far more resilient, and with an oil cooler will last longer - they tend to break down only when subjected to extreme stress and temperatures, they are anyway more resilient in advanced synthetic oils.. The detergents are designed to last far longer than the long chain polymers - so thats not something that I would worry about. If you are suffering contamination you will see traces of water/fuel in the oil.

Spending £100 on oil and throwing it away just does not make sense in my book. The cheaper oils fall apart under the stress/heat. I just take all the precautions that I feel are sensible so that I can keep the good oil in my engine as long as possible, but as soon as it looses the honey sheen it goes.. Maybe a bit eccentric - but at least I have thought about & am not just doing it blindly.

Dave

[Seasider]

v8 racing said:

I seriously hope that the comment about the marketing nerk is not aimed at me.

I very much doubt it Rob

[coetzeeh]

Seasider said:

v8 racing said:

I seriously hope that the comment about the marketing nerk is not aimed at me.

I very much doubt it Rob

[nawarne]

Common dogf***k should apply here, surely?

What's the cost of 5 litres of oil and a filter - 30 to 50 quid tops? Hardly breaking the bank to complete a fundemntal preventative maintenance routine.

Nick

[RumbleBee]

If your changing your oil properly, thats 7 litres, and the Silkolene is about £45 for 4.5 litres. Two of them and a filter and your not far off £100 for an oil change. Though IMHO its worth it.

[Barreti]

v8 racing said:

I seriously hope that the comment about the marketing nerk is not aimed at me.

God No No offence meant v8 racing, it was a sweeping generalisation.
and anyway, I save my best insults for people I know

[Seasider]

Barreti said:

I save my best insults for people I know

Mornin Tubs

Edited by Seasider on Tuesday 6th November 08:38

[stefan1200]

Guys,

thank you for the input.

So just for peace of mind, none of you sees any negative side effects with the use of ester oils in the RV8?

Regards,
Stefan

[v8 racing]

I cant remember exactly what i wrote before about the oils it was more than a week ago so...
But basically yes you can run longer intervals between oil changes if using a very good oil synthetic/ester oil as opposed to a general mineral oil, the biggest way you can damage an oil is by overheating it which will cause the oil to breakdown, mineral oils even good quality ones will tend to start breaking down around the 100 deg c mark, a 500 tiv will easily exceed these temps on a nice sunny day, a good syn/ester oil will happily carry on working as it should past the 150 deg c mark, providing your rings are nicely sealed up i see no reason at all why a motul/silkoline/red-line etc... cant happily stay in your engine for a good 10k, i know at £100 for an oil change if it was my car i wouldn't be changing it every 3k, ok if i only did 3-5k a year then i would change it yearly.
Sorry cant really help on the gasket front as i have never heard of this.

[monstergrowler]

My understanding is the same as Robs. To put a fully synthetic oil such as mobil one in and change it after 3K is madness. I do change mine anually regardless even if I have only done 3k but even this unecessary. If you are changing your oil and filter for £35-40 as some members are suggesting then all I can say is you are either getting a very cheap oil and filter (please advise me where I can get such a deal)or you must be using a lower quality mineral based oil.

[spend]

v8 racing said:

...start breaking down around the 100 deg c mark..

Just to reinforce Robs point, this temp is probably at the main bearings - its NOT the temp you see on your water temp gauge or oil temp gauge if you have one. It is very easy to reach these temps in the centre of the engine, particularly where the oil is being thrashed & squeezed.

Dave

[Pupp]

The problem with this that I see (and Rob's alluded to it in a way) is that my experience of RV8s indicates that a fair bit of blow by occurs with the result that the oil gets pretty 'dirty' quickly; stir in some fuel contamination from any over-fuelling, which is common, and I cannot help but think that even a good synthetic will be pushed to be providing good protection much beyond 6k or so. Anyone ever had their old oil lab analysed?... might be an eye opener

[That Daddy]

Pupp said:

The problem with this that I see (and Rob's alluded to it in a way) is that my experience of RV8s indicates that a fair bit of blow by occurs with the result that the oil gets pretty 'dirty' quickly; stir in some fuel contamination from any over-fuelling, which is common, and I cannot help but think that even a good synthetic will be pushed to be providing good protection much beyond 6k or so. Anyone ever had their old oil lab analysed?... might be an eye opener

Yes i totally agree here,fuel diluted with fuel is bad news(remember these cars overfuel like a bastard when cold)how many have you noticed a raise in oil pressure after a change,reason is in the 1st part of my post,these extended oil service intervals only apply to later engines(better materials,tighter machining tolerances etc etc)the thought of leaving any oil in an RV8 for 10k scares the crap outta melong periods of lay up etc.

[spend]

All these things just illustrate what an arbitrary number the 3k / 5k / 6k miles are for oil changes... Considering there are different qualities in different oils, and the engines + usage patterns are different It is quite reasonable for folks to ascertain their own interval for oil changes IMHO. I may be an extreme case, but I am happy to keep my Mobil 1 racing for 2 years and 12k miles, sump will dropped & cleaned twice in that period and I still see 'golden' internals. There are also factors like I probably carry over 2 litres more oil than usual having a cooler & accumulator, as for contamination ensuring you have good water & cylinder sealing is essential in a performance engine, these are not SD1's whatever people think..

Dave