Warranty problems
Discussion
I've recently had the syncro on 5th gear go on the Chimaera. Given that I still had a couple of months on the warranty I booked it into the garage and informed the warranty company. They as you can image promptly send out their engineer (crown prosecutions registered etc etc...) to inspect the gear box.
They then promptly rejected the claim on the engineers conclusion of:
"...the reported condition is initially the result of poor driving technique whereby selection of reverse gear is attempted with the gear shafts/vehicle still in forward motion which has caused damage to the reverse gear components and that debris as result of this has then damaged the 5th gear."
My experience with the T5 gearbox in the Chimaera has been that its difficult to get into reverse when stationary and I find it highly unlikely that it would be possible to select it with any kind forward motion. Given I do a low millage and as such have had the gearbox oil changes twice in the last 6000 miles I also find the possibility of debris build up causing damage rather unlikely.
I'd appreciate anyone else experiences with getting into reverse on these gearboxes, or anyone else who has had similar warranty issues.
Cheers
Andy....
They then promptly rejected the claim on the engineers conclusion of:
"...the reported condition is initially the result of poor driving technique whereby selection of reverse gear is attempted with the gear shafts/vehicle still in forward motion which has caused damage to the reverse gear components and that debris as result of this has then damaged the 5th gear."
My experience with the T5 gearbox in the Chimaera has been that its difficult to get into reverse when stationary and I find it highly unlikely that it would be possible to select it with any kind forward motion. Given I do a low millage and as such have had the gearbox oil changes twice in the last 6000 miles I also find the possibility of debris build up causing damage rather unlikely.
I'd appreciate anyone else experiences with getting into reverse on these gearboxes, or anyone else who has had similar warranty issues.
Cheers
Andy....
T_Pot said:
im not sure what box i have its a 93 4.3 but mine crunches like hell going into reverse 9 times out of 10
Apparently quite common. Have you tried the normal trick of selecting 5th or 3rd first, and then dropping into rev?Almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about, eh?
Chim Chim Cheree said:
T_Pot said:
im not sure what box i have its a 93 4.3 but mine crunches like hell going into reverse 9 times out of 10
Apparently quite common. Have you tried the normal trick of selecting 5th or 3rd first, and then dropping into rev?Almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about, eh?
thanks for the tip, its very shaming when you trying to look cool and your making a sound like a skoda starter motor
madhatter said:
I've recently had the syncro on 5th gear go on the Chimaera. Given that I still had a couple of months on the warranty I booked it into the garage and informed the warranty company. They as you can image promptly send out their engineer (crown prosecutions registered etc etc...) to inspect the gear box.
They then promptly rejected the claim on the engineers conclusion of:
"...the reported condition is initially the result of poor driving technique whereby selection of reverse gear is attempted with the gear shafts/vehicle still in forward motion which has caused damage to the reverse gear components and that debris as result of this has then damaged the 5th gear."
My experience with the T5 gearbox in the Chimaera has been that its difficult to get into reverse when stationary and I find it highly unlikely that it would be possible to select it with any kind forward motion. Given I do a low millage and as such have had the gearbox oil changes twice in the last 6000 miles I also find the possibility of debris build up causing damage rather unlikely.
I'd appreciate anyone else experiences with getting into reverse on these gearboxes, or anyone else who has had similar warranty issues.
Cheers
Andy....
When I needed to claim on warranty and my garage was getting funny, Trading Standards told me that when you buy from a garage the responsibility is on them to prove that the car didn't have the fault at time of purchase, not you. Therefore you could claim they sold you a deffective car not fit for purpose etc etc. Try talking to T/Standards and then write a strong letter - you may find the garage relents. My case was a little different as I had asked them to fix a problem before taking delivery and they told me they did but didn't!They then promptly rejected the claim on the engineers conclusion of:
"...the reported condition is initially the result of poor driving technique whereby selection of reverse gear is attempted with the gear shafts/vehicle still in forward motion which has caused damage to the reverse gear components and that debris as result of this has then damaged the 5th gear."
My experience with the T5 gearbox in the Chimaera has been that its difficult to get into reverse when stationary and I find it highly unlikely that it would be possible to select it with any kind forward motion. Given I do a low millage and as such have had the gearbox oil changes twice in the last 6000 miles I also find the possibility of debris build up causing damage rather unlikely.
I'd appreciate anyone else experiences with getting into reverse on these gearboxes, or anyone else who has had similar warranty issues.
Cheers
Andy....
That said unless I go via 5th gear, mine usually crunches like hell - I think its a case of they all do that Sir...
Is the problem 5th synhro i.e. crunching when going into 5th or is it crunching when going into reverse. I believe it is generally accepted that they all do this. I have the same box as you and most times it will crunch when going into reverse directly . It doesnt if I go into 5th first .
I think the warranty company are outragious How can anyone say that it is bad driving practice that caused the problem. It is more than probable that the car had the 'problem' when you took the warranty out in which case it is must be down to them. Unless of course they stripped the gearbox down before they accepted your business.
Good Luck and dont give up
Trevor
I think the warranty company are outragious How can anyone say that it is bad driving practice that caused the problem. It is more than probable that the car had the 'problem' when you took the warranty out in which case it is must be down to them. Unless of course they stripped the gearbox down before they accepted your business.
Good Luck and dont give up
Trevor
When I got my 2000 Chim (T5 box) I was told by Dream Machines that it is necessary to engage 5th before going into reverse in order to avoid crunching the gears. This is also the experience of TVR Vic who bought his from Walldonway.
Certainly always works for me. On the odd occasion when the wife forgot to do this when we first got the car it would crunch.
I expect that Spend or That daddy will be along soon to add their comments, both very knowledgeable Guys IMO.
Even if the damage was caused by the previous owner I suppose that their get out on the grounds of incorrect gear selection will still apply,not just if it has been caused by you, but no doubt others will comment.
Certainly always works for me. On the odd occasion when the wife forgot to do this when we first got the car it would crunch.
I expect that Spend or That daddy will be along soon to add their comments, both very knowledgeable Guys IMO.
Even if the damage was caused by the previous owner I suppose that their get out on the grounds of incorrect gear selection will still apply,not just if it has been caused by you, but no doubt others will comment.
Chim Chim Cheree said:
T_Pot said:
im not sure what box i have its a 93 4.3 but mine crunches like hell going into reverse 9 times out of 10
Apparently quite common. Have you tried the normal trick of selecting 5th or 3rd first, and then dropping into rev?Almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about, eh?
you learn something new everyday with a TVR lol
Hi i'm not sure but has the post gone of track? The 5th gear problem u have, can u select 5th from 4th or is it very hard to get in gear (no crunching) or does it crunch into 5th, i have been told that gearbox suffers from some wear on the 5th gear side causing it to run untrue hence difficult to select, once sellected all is ok, hope someone might be able to expand on that a little who knows wot there talking about lol.
mak said:
Hi i'm not sure but has the post gone of track? ...
Sorry if it's gone a little off track, but:T_Pot said:
What do you know, perfect shameless reverse selection today with the 3rd first method
After all the help I've received, to be able to finally give something back feels gooooood. 
Now... back to the thread. Which I can't help with.
Do any of your various insurances, house, car, whatever, come with legal assistance?
If so I'd give them a call & ask for their advice.
Almost any claim for failure could be fobbed off with that excuse. How can they claim that that kind of misuse is the only possible cause of the damage.
They accepted responsibilty when they took the money for the warranty. It's not a new car so they must have factored in earlier possible misuse when they worked out the premium. Legal letter time I think!
If so I'd give them a call & ask for their advice.
Almost any claim for failure could be fobbed off with that excuse. How can they claim that that kind of misuse is the only possible cause of the damage.
They accepted responsibilty when they took the money for the warranty. It's not a new car so they must have factored in earlier possible misuse when they worked out the premium. Legal letter time I think!
I cant see how they could refuse your claim (not that I'm an expert on warranties)given that they have identified a fault which is covered. How could they prove that you are repsonsible as has been said the fault may have already been present before you had it.
Like others with the T5 box I use 5th gear to stop the internals spinning before getting reverse, but you dont have to actually 'select' 5th. Just pushing the lever enough to feel resistance briefly as the syncro starts to bite is enough to put a brake on the internals.
Like others with the T5 box I use 5th gear to stop the internals spinning before getting reverse, but you dont have to actually 'select' 5th. Just pushing the lever enough to feel resistance briefly as the syncro starts to bite is enough to put a brake on the internals.
The car is 10 years old with 50k of which I've put down 30k in the 5 years I've had it. The current warranty I picked up 3 years ago. So no going back to the original garage or claiming a pre-existing fault. Like the rest of you I've always found reverse a b*tch to get into and have always followed the main dealer recommendation of selecting 5th before sliding it in.
The quote on the damage from the transmission company that repaired it was:
"Problem was that there was a chipped tooth in the 5th gear on the main shaft and on further inspection it was found that the driven gear was also worn on the dog teeth and the 5th hub was worn as well."
The warranty company engineer has obviously decided that this damage was due to particles from the reverse gear components.
Given that most people find reverse grinds periodically, even when selecting 5th (or 3rd) first, I'm inclined to the belief that any perceived damage to the reverse gear components is due to the normal nature of the gearbox. Not as a result of selecting reverse while still moving.
I suspect legal assist with the house/car insurances isn't going to cover this kind of dispute. I was looking at going down the small claims court. But with the warranty company waving a crown prosecution registered expert around I've got to make a pretty solid case to knock their trump car down.
The quote on the damage from the transmission company that repaired it was:
"Problem was that there was a chipped tooth in the 5th gear on the main shaft and on further inspection it was found that the driven gear was also worn on the dog teeth and the 5th hub was worn as well."
The warranty company engineer has obviously decided that this damage was due to particles from the reverse gear components.
Given that most people find reverse grinds periodically, even when selecting 5th (or 3rd) first, I'm inclined to the belief that any perceived damage to the reverse gear components is due to the normal nature of the gearbox. Not as a result of selecting reverse while still moving.
I suspect legal assist with the house/car insurances isn't going to cover this kind of dispute. I was looking at going down the small claims court. But with the warranty company waving a crown prosecution registered expert around I've got to make a pretty solid case to knock their trump car down.
Sorry, I had assumed the warranty was something you had at purchase.
You mention damage to the reverse gear train but the report extract only seems to comment on 5th? If there is damage to the teeth on reverse I would have thought that would be most likley a legacy from past owner repeatedly crunching it into gear without the usual T5 trick with 5th.
You mention damage to the reverse gear train but the report extract only seems to comment on 5th? If there is damage to the teeth on reverse I would have thought that would be most likley a legacy from past owner repeatedly crunching it into gear without the usual T5 trick with 5th.
Tahiti450 said:
Sorry, I had assumed the warranty was something you had at purchase.
You mention damage to the reverse gear train but the report extract only seems to comment on 5th? If there is damage to the teeth on reverse I would have thought that would be most likley a legacy from past owner repeatedly crunching it into gear without the usual T5 trick with 5th.
You mention damage to the reverse gear train but the report extract only seems to comment on 5th? If there is damage to the teeth on reverse I would have thought that would be most likley a legacy from past owner repeatedly crunching it into gear without the usual T5 trick with 5th.
the selecting 5th gear before reverse works for me too,but crunches like a b*stard if i dont,my brothers car is the same,i also find that if you dip the clutch 1st and wait a few seconds(just long enough for the shaft to stop spinning)it as the same effect,and back to the OP,i doubt contaminated gear oil would damage the syncro on 5th gear only when its the least selected gear
,knackered bearings yes but 5th syncro,,,,,i doubt it,a constantly crunched reverse gear could quickly contaminate clean gear oil though
Been having a think about this.
You say that the gearbox oil has been changed twice in the last 6000 miles, if you have invoices for the work that could help to build a case that you have been taking good care of the box.
If the damage to the 5th gear components was caused by the debris, why were the other gears not damaged. Sorry, not an expert on gearboxes but someone with more knowledge may be able to shed light on this.
Also, with the oil changes, would the debris have not been washed out? Again, beyond the extent of my knowledge. But if this IS the case, then surely this points the finger at another cause, metal fatigue? Taking this a bit further, it is unlikely that your driving style has recently altered, and taking account of 30,000 miles done by yourself in the car, why has the metal breakup suddenly occurred.
On a side note, have you checked to see the price of a secondhand box from one of the TVR breakers. If not to high, it could be worth swallowing rather than the aggro of legal action.
At that mileage the car would probably need a new clutch soon so the box would have had to come out anyway.
Good luck!
Keith
You say that the gearbox oil has been changed twice in the last 6000 miles, if you have invoices for the work that could help to build a case that you have been taking good care of the box.
If the damage to the 5th gear components was caused by the debris, why were the other gears not damaged. Sorry, not an expert on gearboxes but someone with more knowledge may be able to shed light on this.
Also, with the oil changes, would the debris have not been washed out? Again, beyond the extent of my knowledge. But if this IS the case, then surely this points the finger at another cause, metal fatigue? Taking this a bit further, it is unlikely that your driving style has recently altered, and taking account of 30,000 miles done by yourself in the car, why has the metal breakup suddenly occurred.
On a side note, have you checked to see the price of a secondhand box from one of the TVR breakers. If not to high, it could be worth swallowing rather than the aggro of legal action.
At that mileage the car would probably need a new clutch soon so the box would have had to come out anyway.
Good luck!
Keith
I don't believe that their is a syncromesh on the reverse gear. Because of this you always, always have to select any forward gear first before slotting into reverse. It is common with all TVRs and any other car that uses the same gear box. There is nothing wrong with it, it is just what they do, and a new gear box would do the same.
Can't believe that you bought it from a garage and they did not take you through this. But sounds like there are a few of you out there that have been crunching it into reverse all the time which can't help.
However there it has also been mentioned in the past that the 5th gear on these boxes is a weak link and has been now to fail on a small percentage of cars (all TVRs not just Chimaeras). Do a search on here and you should find lots of posts that mention this because this may help you prove that it is not driver error, even though you have been forcing it into gear.
Hope that this helps.
Can't believe that you bought it from a garage and they did not take you through this. But sounds like there are a few of you out there that have been crunching it into reverse all the time which can't help.
However there it has also been mentioned in the past that the 5th gear on these boxes is a weak link and has been now to fail on a small percentage of cars (all TVRs not just Chimaeras). Do a search on here and you should find lots of posts that mention this because this may help you prove that it is not driver error, even though you have been forcing it into gear.
Hope that this helps.
blitzracing said:
Doesnt the latter Ford gearboxes have a magnetic swarf trap for this very reason ? The LT77 certaily does, and its quite obvious from the metal splinters all over it whats been going on. You just wipe them off when you change the oil.
in fact Ford have used magnets in the base of the gearbox for years(circa 70s/80s),well certainly in the many RWD single rail and three rail boxes i pulled down.Edited by That Daddy on Saturday 12th January 10:21
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