The Great Trumpets vs Blended Base Debate...
The Great Trumpets vs Blended Base Debate...
Author
Discussion

900T-R

Original Poster:

20,406 posts

287 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
... and yes, I did search the Chim & Griff forums. wink

A recap from what I found, trying to sense a general consensus:

  • In terms of outright top end bhp, there's nothing between a carbon trumpet upgrade and a trumpetless blended base
  • However, the trumpets offer a torque advantage compared to standard TVR trumpets all across the rpm range - I guess the blended base will mainly/only be advantageous at/near the top end?
  • The gains using the carbon trumpets would be consistent and repeatable unless your handiwork is so dodgy that you can't even glue them in straight wink - however, achieving the right kind of 'flare' consistently across all intakes at home with a dremel tool may be a bit more of an issue; wouldn't this make the results utterly variable/unpredictable?
This is for a bonkers 4.3 with extensively ported manifold, but std trumpet sizes...

trackcar

6,453 posts

256 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
In my experience there's nothing to pick between them. The most powerful cars on my dyno have had blended bases (nearly 370hp with a blended base from a 5 litre? you betcha!) but they've also been in a higher spec as regards the rest of the engine too .. I've never seen any of the supposed midrange/driveability increases from using trumpets either, I personally suspsect it's one of those myths just like keeping your airflow meter gains you midrange. No doubt the people selling trumpets will have a different perspective, but at least you can then make your own mind up wink

As for blending the base yourself : you don't have to be skilled or consistent at all .. the only thing you need is to get as generous a radius on the base as possible but it doesnt have to be consistent, though it looks nice if it is and shows a pride in your work.

rev-erend

21,624 posts

314 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
If you are uning a high lift and long duration cam then I would think having blended bases as opposed to trumpets will allow most cross contamination of exhaust gases.. and you will notice this as less torque low down.. high revs may see slightly more power but as the gap between the top of the plemum and the blended base is greater than with trumpets - you miss out on the exhaust pulse reverberation - so the peak power may well actually be very sililar..

900T-R

Original Poster:

20,406 posts

287 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
Hmmm, interesting... cam is a Piper item bespoke to this engine... according to the builder it's actually got less overlap than the 214 that came out, but a fair bit more lift.

rev-erend

21,624 posts

314 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
900T-R said:
Hmmm, interesting... cam is a Piper item bespoke to this engine... according to the builder it's actually got less overlap than the 214 that came out, but a fair bit more lift.
Below is a table that shows some Rover V8 cam specs :

http://www.btinternet.com/~jon.wolfe/kentcamdata.h...

H214 Sports 1500 - 5000 11.90mm Inlet 12.44mm Exhaust 284 298 Degrees

H218 Sports 1500 - 5000 11.38mm Inlet 11.78mm Exhaust
278 284 Degrees

(SImilar to V8 dev's 404) .. I believe..
M248 Supersports 3500 - 8000 13.40mm Ex 12.85mm Inlet 300 Degrees

Hope that helps .. sounds like you cam is a sporty cam but not too wild..

L33

3,469 posts

254 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
My trumpets have blended bases and were part of the TVR Power "Taraka" upgrade.
Car goes like stink but I've never had carbon trumpets in to compare.

thumbup

rev-erend

21,624 posts

314 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
L33 said:
My trumpets have blended bases and were part of the TVR Power "Taraka" upgrade.
Car goes like stink but I've never had carbon trumpets in to compare.

thumbup
Surely you either have trumpets or blended bases .. you cannot have both..

L33

3,469 posts

254 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
L33 said:
My trumpets have blended bases and were part of the TVR Power "Taraka" upgrade.
Car goes like stink but I've never had carbon trumpets in to compare.

thumbup
Surely you either have trumpets or blended bases .. you cannot have both..
I was told blended trumpets.
Perhaps the guy meant blended bases?
scratchchin

Tahiti450

712 posts

267 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
L33 said:
rev-erend said:
L33 said:
My trumpets have blended bases and were part of the TVR Power "Taraka" upgrade.
Car goes like stink but I've never had carbon trumpets in to compare.

thumbup
Surely you either have trumpets or blended bases .. you cannot have both..
I was told blended trumpets.
Perhaps the guy meant blended bases?
scratchchin
scratchchin "Blended trumpet-base", maybe .... confused

sapper

1,134 posts

235 months

Friday 18th January 2008
quotequote all
I asked a similar question a few weeks ago then searched the said forums. I couldnt find a reason not to just shorten the existing trumpets when comparing price to power gains. at the minute ive taken the base out and am waiting for the good lady to go shopping for a few hours before I get use of her oven. So unless someone can convince me otherwise ill just shorten the original trumpets.

blitzracing

6,422 posts

250 months

Friday 18th January 2008
quotequote all
You dont need an oven, just heat the trumpet with a blowtorch untill the glue is soft and pull them out with grips.

900T-R

Original Poster:

20,406 posts

287 months

Tuesday 29th January 2008
quotequote all
Reviving my old thread here... got a spare base and plenum (the latter of which Eliot will be hogging out to 72 mm smile ) ... there's recesses of a larger diameter cast into the base around the outer four trumpets, so unless I have the intake manifold taken out and the holes machined out to 44 or 45 mm or so (on the 'other' side there's been some extensive proting to match the intakes on the heads so it's not just a case of swapping manifolds), I can't actually blend those without sleeving them first with some very thick walled tubing (in which case I'd as well take the easy route and shell out for some carbon trumpets)??

Anyone actually blended a 38 mm base?

spend

12,581 posts

281 months

Tuesday 29th January 2008
quotequote all
The outer 4 cross over, leaving them with a greater radius would seem sensible to me. Basically pipes with bigger diameter (st or curved) have less resistance, short small duct = long big duct in my simplistic understanding wink Trying to even out flow in the V8 is a black art (hence the unequal length trumpets), you can still try this with the blended base - just look at the uneveness of the manifold and try to balance it out. Apparently the Thor manifolds are different BTW.

Dave

900T-R

Original Poster:

20,406 posts

287 months

Friday 1st February 2008
quotequote all
OK, no going back now... roughly done one of the outer ports yesterday evening. My first impression is that like me you only have a Dremel tool rather than some kind or air grinder and - unlike me - you do have a life, just shell out the cash for the carbon trumpets. wink

I fully expect this to take a while and some grinding bits while it's at it - the one I used yesterday has run full with aluminium particles bakes solid into it already - will post pics later on.

Still not sure whether this was such a clever idea... scratchchin

trackcar

6,453 posts

256 months

Friday 1st February 2008
quotequote all
900T-R said:
OK, no going back now... roughly done one of the outer ports yesterday evening. My first impression is that like me you only have a Dremel tool rather than some kind or air grinder and - unlike me - you do have a life, just shell out the cash for the carbon trumpets. wink

I fully expect this to take a while and some grinding bits while it's at it - the one I used yesterday has run full with aluminium particles bakes solid into it already - will post pics later on.

Still not sure whether this was such a clever idea... scratchchin
Are you trying to grind the ally away with a grindstone? that won't work well , but you can ease the job by using lots of wd40 or similar to try and prevent it clogging ..

you really need to buy a proper carbide cutter and then you can do it with an electric drill or better still a drill with a flexi shaft attachment. Carbide cutters are about 30 pounds to buy and you'll be amazed how fast the ally comes off then!

If you do a nice job you could make some money doing blended bases for your mates at the car club? It should take you no more than an hour to do a complete blended base.

That Daddy

19,461 posts

251 months

Friday 1st February 2008
quotequote all
You can finish with stones,but keep dunking them in auto transmission oil to stop said stones from clogging(my porting 2 stroke daysrolleyes)air die grinders with the burring ends remove the initial excess really well,and no i have not done my own yetfrown

Edited by That Daddy on Friday 1st February 09:25

900T-R

Original Poster:

20,406 posts

287 months

Friday 1st February 2008
quotequote all
Thanks for the comments, all.

I'm using this Dremel attachment:

This is about the shape I can get at the outer ports (excuse my excruciatingly bad Paint skills):



Is this acceptable/how it should be done?

Pupp

13,010 posts

302 months

Friday 1st February 2008
quotequote all
That Daddy said:
You can finish with stones,but keep dunking them in auto transmission oil to stop said stones from clogging(my porting 2 stroke daysrolleyes)air die grinders with the burring ends remove the initial excess really well,and no i have not done my own yetfrown

Edited by That Daddy on Friday 1st February 09:25
Air grinders? Pah, in my two-stroke days it was rifler files hehe

900T-R

Original Poster:

20,406 posts

287 months

Friday 1st February 2008
quotequote all
Only tungsten carbid cutters I can find for a 1/8" shaft diameter have a working diameter of... 1/8". Bah humbug. irked

prepares himself for a couple of grind all night sessions of the less pleasurable variety

Else

795 posts

268 months

Friday 1st February 2008
quotequote all
Use parrafin as a lubricant when cutting ally, you will be amazed how well the cutter works and its cheap.

Andy