supercharger opinions?
Discussion
Hi Mac, I'm also thinking about doing the conversion - probably after summer. Haven't done a whole lot of research yet apart from the price for the normal DIY kit and a bigger boost version with a slightly bigger charger but I'll need to put low comp pistons in before I run higher boost. From what I've heard so far though, they are reliable kits and seem to work well, the only real issue they had was controling the idle speed which seemed to cause some problems but I understand that's all fixed now. Having said that, I'd be running it through my Emerald ECU so idle shouldn't be a problem anyway. For use on a 450, you'll need to run a wideband lambda sensor with a air/fuel ratio gauge (if running on the standard ECU), probably a boost gauge and you'll need the intercooler kit as well. Aside from that it's pretty much a bolt-on kit!
Let me know if you find out any more details though as I'd be interested to hear! I'm popping down to the West Mids meet in a bit, would be good to have a chat about it if you're going?
Nick
Let me know if you find out any more details though as I'd be interested to hear! I'm popping down to the West Mids meet in a bit, would be good to have a chat about it if you're going?
Nick
Edited by thenick on Sunday 17th February 09:31
thenick said:
Hi Mac, I'm also thinking about doing the conversion - probably after summer. Haven't done a whole lot of research yet apart from the price for the normal DIY kit and a bigger boost version with a slightly bigger charger but I'll need to put low comp pistons in before I run higher boost. From what I've heard so far though, they are reliable kits and seem to work well, the only real issue they had was controling the idle speed which seemed to cause some problems but I understand that's all fixed now. Having said that, I'd be running it through my Emerald ECU so idle shouldn't be a problem anyway. For use on a 450, you'll need to run a wideband lambda sensor with a air/fuel ratio gauge (if running on the standard ECU), probably a boost gauge and you'll need the intercooler kit as well. Aside from that it's pretty much a bolt-on kit!
Let me know if you find out any more details though as I'd be interested to hear! I'm popping down to the West Mids meet in a bit, would be good to have a chat about it if you're going?
Nick
Bugger, only just read reply [thanks though]. Did go to meet today but was in Debs car as mine is in pieces in garage at moment pending engine build. Would've been 'good to talk'. Am also thinking of changing pistons [and rods] as I want to keep the nitrous also. Had a go in the demonstrator and it seemed to drive well enough, it was equipped with intercooler which I'd get also.Let me know if you find out any more details though as I'd be interested to hear! I'm popping down to the West Mids meet in a bit, would be good to have a chat about it if you're going?
Nick
Edited by thenick on Sunday 17th February 09:31
Edited by macdeb on Sunday 17th February 21:11
Meatball said:
macdeb said:
Have many had the TVR/SC Power superchargers fitted? If so, what are your opinions in particular any with 450's. seriously thinking about it and would like to know, cheers.
Mac, Drop Hoc a line he had one on his race car last season.macdeb said:
Meatball said:
macdeb said:
Have many had the TVR/SC Power superchargers fitted? If so, what are your opinions in particular any with 450's. seriously thinking about it and would like to know, cheers.
Mac, Drop Hoc a line he had one on his race car last season.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?nam...
It all depends on how much bhp you want and how reliable you want the engine...
Can't see the point of buying the kit and then trying to extend its performance as the kit was designed to provide a reasonable level with existing spec engine and without the considerably expense of strengthening the engine, improving the fuelling and induction. Then there is the small matter of the gearbox.
Might be worth speaking to John Eales - we worked together on my SC installation which is around 525 bhp using a Vortech blower. He has used the Rotrax blower as well.
Can't see the point of buying the kit and then trying to extend its performance as the kit was designed to provide a reasonable level with existing spec engine and without the considerably expense of strengthening the engine, improving the fuelling and induction. Then there is the small matter of the gearbox.
Might be worth speaking to John Eales - we worked together on my SC installation which is around 525 bhp using a Vortech blower. He has used the Rotrax blower as well.
Hi Steve,
Thanks, I think I will try and have a chat with John at some point. It's a while before I intend to start this particular project but i'm just trying to do a little homework first.
When chatting to Colin at SC power, he said the higher boost is perfectly within the capabilities of the kit and that they use the same system, but with a slightly bigger charger. Bigger injectors, intercooler etc are all standard with the normal 450 kit, so only the bigger blower is needed and ideally lower compression pistons for obvious reasons - this is the same as they use for the 500bhp Griff apparently but i've yet to see the thing so i'm not sure how its running! - Anyone know??
I would also like to increase the size of the heads if the engine gets opened as i'm currently experiencing quite a bottleneck at high revs, but i'm getting conflicting views on what sort of heads to look at so perhaps John would be able to give me some guidance?
Then on the gearbox front, i've had a rebuild on mine last year so it should be pretty solid as it's had 5th gear sorted but I wouldn't look to push it much past 400 unless something was done to strengthen the it. Having said that, how much strengthening would it need given that it's a road car and as such doesn't recieve quite the same beating as a race/hillclimbing car would?
Thanks, I think I will try and have a chat with John at some point. It's a while before I intend to start this particular project but i'm just trying to do a little homework first.
When chatting to Colin at SC power, he said the higher boost is perfectly within the capabilities of the kit and that they use the same system, but with a slightly bigger charger. Bigger injectors, intercooler etc are all standard with the normal 450 kit, so only the bigger blower is needed and ideally lower compression pistons for obvious reasons - this is the same as they use for the 500bhp Griff apparently but i've yet to see the thing so i'm not sure how its running! - Anyone know??
I would also like to increase the size of the heads if the engine gets opened as i'm currently experiencing quite a bottleneck at high revs, but i'm getting conflicting views on what sort of heads to look at so perhaps John would be able to give me some guidance?
Then on the gearbox front, i've had a rebuild on mine last year so it should be pretty solid as it's had 5th gear sorted but I wouldn't look to push it much past 400 unless something was done to strengthen the it. Having said that, how much strengthening would it need given that it's a road car and as such doesn't recieve quite the same beating as a race/hillclimbing car would?
macdeb said:
Bugger, only just read reply [thanks though]. Did go to meet today but was in Debs car as mine is in pieces in garage at moment pending engine build. Would've been 'good to talk'. Am also thinking of changing pistons [and rods] as I want to keep the nitrous also. Had a go in the demonstrator and it seemed to drive well enough, it was equipped with intercooler which I'd get also.
Ah shame, I thought I saw you but didn't see your car so assumed it was someone else!Edited by macdeb on Sunday 17th February 21:11
shpub said:
It all depends on how much bhp you want and how reliable you want the engine...
Can't see the point of buying the kit and then trying to extend its performance as the kit was designed to provide a reasonable level with existing spec engine and without the considerably expense of strengthening the engine, improving the fuelling and induction. Then there is the small matter of the gearbox.
Might be worth speaking to John Eales - we worked together on my SC installation which is around 525 bhp using a Vortech blower. He has used the Rotrax blower as well.
Steve, I thought as I'd got heads off to see what's been going on inside [long winter nights] and still looks like new backing up mileage of only 9k. My reasons for maybe changing pistons and rods are; piece of mind being stronger, ready for any further mods', and it's easier now whilst apart. I was going to get the heads 'wired' as a precaution, What do you think? I know I'll probably have to look at the clutch and maybe gearbox, any pointers? Any advice much appreciated. MAC.Can't see the point of buying the kit and then trying to extend its performance as the kit was designed to provide a reasonable level with existing spec engine and without the considerably expense of strengthening the engine, improving the fuelling and induction. Then there is the small matter of the gearbox.
Might be worth speaking to John Eales - we worked together on my SC installation which is around 525 bhp using a Vortech blower. He has used the Rotrax blower as well.
PS; I have already upgraded suspension with adjustable shocks and your drop-links, and am currently fitting AP racing callipers with 300mm discs and alloy bells.
I'll go back to the original question? How much power do you want?
340 ish - go with the SC power kit. Alternatively get a John Eales special N/A engine that will provide the perfect base to build on. Not cheap initially but saves thousands as the power is upped.
400ish - start to find limits with standard ecu, injectors fuel pumps, induction, crank and engine bottom end etc. The engine is on a knife edge and get any thing wrong and it will shrapnel. Special pistons, internal engine upgrades start to become essential. You can risk it but how lucky do you feel? Biggest issue is leaning out which is why it is so important to upgrade and address these areas. The Grf 500 SC race car shrapneled its engine at only 420 bhp through detonation so it is a big risk. Gearbox should be treated as a consumable or upgraded. Cheapest way as it reuses the bellhousing prop shaft etc is the CTS/Quaife upgrade but budget £1500 to 2k for it. Clutches also become consumables unless you go multiplate which usually means a new flywheel. Again budget around £1000 as the different flywheel often requires a geared starter motor. Alternatively declare the clutch a consumable. I did get through 3 uprated standard size ones in a year before switching to a triple plate sintered AP clutch.
450ish - Throw everything away and start from scratch. Hence the starting with a JE special initially. At these levels the engine needs to be built as strong as an OX. The rest of the system needs to be engineered correctly with no compromise otherwise the engine will shrapnel at the least excuse. Be prepared to strengthen everything on the transmission including the propshaft/driveshafts. Cooling, air charge temperature and the whole environment must be kept under control and that requires a lot of work and money. Again if this isn't done, the risk of shrapnelling the engine is increased.
500+ - requires real engineering and resources to get this reliable. Currently my setup has been running for 18 months.
Alright I compete in my car so the power gets used and then some but I can't see the point of having 350/400/450 or whatever bhp if everytime the throttle is pushed there is a fear of what will break next?
340 ish - go with the SC power kit. Alternatively get a John Eales special N/A engine that will provide the perfect base to build on. Not cheap initially but saves thousands as the power is upped.
400ish - start to find limits with standard ecu, injectors fuel pumps, induction, crank and engine bottom end etc. The engine is on a knife edge and get any thing wrong and it will shrapnel. Special pistons, internal engine upgrades start to become essential. You can risk it but how lucky do you feel? Biggest issue is leaning out which is why it is so important to upgrade and address these areas. The Grf 500 SC race car shrapneled its engine at only 420 bhp through detonation so it is a big risk. Gearbox should be treated as a consumable or upgraded. Cheapest way as it reuses the bellhousing prop shaft etc is the CTS/Quaife upgrade but budget £1500 to 2k for it. Clutches also become consumables unless you go multiplate which usually means a new flywheel. Again budget around £1000 as the different flywheel often requires a geared starter motor. Alternatively declare the clutch a consumable. I did get through 3 uprated standard size ones in a year before switching to a triple plate sintered AP clutch.
450ish - Throw everything away and start from scratch. Hence the starting with a JE special initially. At these levels the engine needs to be built as strong as an OX. The rest of the system needs to be engineered correctly with no compromise otherwise the engine will shrapnel at the least excuse. Be prepared to strengthen everything on the transmission including the propshaft/driveshafts. Cooling, air charge temperature and the whole environment must be kept under control and that requires a lot of work and money. Again if this isn't done, the risk of shrapnelling the engine is increased.
500+ - requires real engineering and resources to get this reliable. Currently my setup has been running for 18 months.
Alright I compete in my car so the power gets used and then some but I can't see the point of having 350/400/450 or whatever bhp if everytime the throttle is pushed there is a fear of what will break next?
Steve, thanks for input. I relate to the part of 'pushing the throttle and fearing what will break' scenario. That's what I used to think when I had an S6 car, and there is nothing worse than that feeling.
I was hoping for around the 400 ish mark for output. The kit comes with bigger injectors, I intend to upgrade the fuel pump and use an additional solenoid on the nos as a primary so it cuts nitrous if fuel pressure drops. [although little used but nice little shove when is] it's also through a progressive controller which feeds in gradual rather than one big hit. I'm ready to replace pistons and rods. Am I fooling myself in thinking that the standard x-bolted crank can cope? I take on board your thoughts on clutch/gearbox.
I was hoping for around the 400 ish mark for output. The kit comes with bigger injectors, I intend to upgrade the fuel pump and use an additional solenoid on the nos as a primary so it cuts nitrous if fuel pressure drops. [although little used but nice little shove when is] it's also through a progressive controller which feeds in gradual rather than one big hit. I'm ready to replace pistons and rods. Am I fooling myself in thinking that the standard x-bolted crank can cope? I take on board your thoughts on clutch/gearbox.
Hello Peter,
The SC power set up quotes 380, now my thinking is thats going to conservatively guarantee 340 as they're also quoted as 290 at wheels [taking into account drivetrain loss at 15%]. I already have the nos installation and after the work I put into it, and filling station at home seems a shame to rip it out. I thought of dropping the percentage on the controller [or jets] down to 50 hp, just for that little extra on top if required. Hope it makes some sense.
The SC power set up quotes 380, now my thinking is thats going to conservatively guarantee 340 as they're also quoted as 290 at wheels [taking into account drivetrain loss at 15%]. I already have the nos installation and after the work I put into it, and filling station at home seems a shame to rip it out. I thought of dropping the percentage on the controller [or jets] down to 50 hp, just for that little extra on top if required. Hope it makes some sense.
Edited by macdeb on Wednesday 20th February 20:58
I'd have thought that a decent bottom end build, forged low comp pistons, decent rods etc would be ok at 400-500hp. The money should be invested in the engine management to make it safe. Mechanical strength is part of the engine build but incorrect management will still blow it away.
Mike,
Thanks, understand what you say. But trying to gauge where to start from. I was thinking of going just back from the brink for now, but with a good basis for future mods' [better management, increase boost] Now thinking shelve the nos for a while and concentrate on stronger engine with charger set at 350 ish, then when funds allow again, on from there. I know the kit is for standard set-up and I'm trying to think past that. Sort of chicken/egg scenario. Starting to keep me awake now.
Thanks, understand what you say. But trying to gauge where to start from. I was thinking of going just back from the brink for now, but with a good basis for future mods' [better management, increase boost] Now thinking shelve the nos for a while and concentrate on stronger engine with charger set at 350 ish, then when funds allow again, on from there. I know the kit is for standard set-up and I'm trying to think past that. Sort of chicken/egg scenario. Starting to keep me awake now.
Edited by macdeb on Thursday 21st February 22:17
macdeb said:
Guys, thanks for input I take it all on board as I don't want to build myself a grenade. Much appreciated.
Pupp, ??? Can I have that again? don't understand.
Think Mike of Boosted fame is thinking through a single turbo kit for the TVR RV8s mounting up front and hopefully overcoming a load of the traditional twin turbo issues... seems a great solution in theory to me and potentially more cost effective/flexible than a belt drive blower for those wanting bolt on forced induction.Pupp, ??? Can I have that again? don't understand.
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