Chimaera starter motor issue.
Discussion
Ive had my Chimaera 6 years now and so far its been exceptionally reliable. The car will not start at the moment despite the fact the fuel pump can be heard priming. When turning the key there appears to be no power to the starter motor, confirmed by a local recovery truck driver who found no power going to the starter motor when he finally got under the car. I assume this means a new starter motor rather than an immobiliser fault as the car will lock/unlock and the fuel pump primes.
Wheres best to get a new starter motor? and is it the same as Range Rover V8 starter motor? Any help appreciated.
Wheres best to get a new starter motor? and is it the same as Range Rover V8 starter motor? Any help appreciated.
Before you go off an buy a new starter I would check you have a good live supply to the starter (I will assume the engine has an earth) and if you have, try shorting across to the starter solenoid direct from it to see if it does anything.
If the starter is still dead then you need a new one, if it cranks then you have an electrical problem.
(Usual disclaimer apply regarding electrical fires etc
)
If the starter is still dead then you need a new one, if it cranks then you have an electrical problem.
(Usual disclaimer apply regarding electrical fires etc
)I think he might mean the solenoid is barfed, ie power to the solenoid but not to the motor, if the recovery chap did his job? Depending on the model of starter it might be rebuilt (Lucas are actually better than a lot of the foreign imports in this way BTW) easily by yourself or an Auto-elec. Since a new starter can be had for @£60 its prob better value to renew..
Dave
Dave
A brief explanation of the starter motor circuit
The starter motor, in common with most modern starter motors is actually a combination of a starter motor and a solenoid. The starter motor draws a huge current which is why it is supplied directly from the battery via a heavy lead. The solenoid is necessary to switch this current: think of it as a big electrically operated switch; a relay if you like.
So, both the solenoid and the starter motor need their own supply, hence the big wire and the smaller one. All circuits need a return path, or ground. In this case they share a common ground through the casing, so no wire or cable is involved. Ultimately the circuit is completed via the engine block and a heavy ground strap back to the battery.
When you turn the key to the cranking position it switches on the solenoid (which in turn switches on the starter motor and the engine should turn over). But this part of the circuit passes through the immobiliser. It also passes through the 'hot start' relay (where fitted).
Now, to your problem. We need to know, as others have asked, where exactly is no power being supplied to? If it's the heavy red cable it should be simple to trace as it goes straight to the battery.
If it's the cable between the solenoid and the starter motor (as per spend) there's an internal fault that will require replacement or overhaul of the starter motor/solenoid assembly. I would not recommend Ribol's advice.
If it's the thin wire it's a little more complicated to trace as the problem might lie in the ignition switch, the immobiliser (take note of Pupp's comment re: the immobiliser), the 'hot start' relay circuits (if fitted) or any of the associated wiring and connectors in between, including the actual wire supplying the solenoid. Unless you really know what you're doing here I'd consult a specialist.
The 100A fuse
To avoid any confusion, the 100A fuse has three distinct functions (the first two by design).
1. It protects the car's wiring system from damage that could be caused by certain alternator faults.
2. It protects the alternator from damage that could be caused by certain faults in the rest of the electrical system.
3. It fails randomly and frequently ultimately leaving you stranded at the side of the road.
In the first two cases it's possible the 100A fuse could prevent a fire in case of certain genuine faults. In the third case, where the fault lies in the fuse itself, all will happen is the charging circuit will stop working and the battery will ultimately lose its charge. If this happens whilst driving, other strange things may happen (rough running, etc.) before the car finally stops and is unable to be restarted. It has no direct effect in any other maladies.
The starter motor, in common with most modern starter motors is actually a combination of a starter motor and a solenoid. The starter motor draws a huge current which is why it is supplied directly from the battery via a heavy lead. The solenoid is necessary to switch this current: think of it as a big electrically operated switch; a relay if you like.
So, both the solenoid and the starter motor need their own supply, hence the big wire and the smaller one. All circuits need a return path, or ground. In this case they share a common ground through the casing, so no wire or cable is involved. Ultimately the circuit is completed via the engine block and a heavy ground strap back to the battery.
When you turn the key to the cranking position it switches on the solenoid (which in turn switches on the starter motor and the engine should turn over). But this part of the circuit passes through the immobiliser. It also passes through the 'hot start' relay (where fitted).
Now, to your problem. We need to know, as others have asked, where exactly is no power being supplied to? If it's the heavy red cable it should be simple to trace as it goes straight to the battery.
If it's the cable between the solenoid and the starter motor (as per spend) there's an internal fault that will require replacement or overhaul of the starter motor/solenoid assembly. I would not recommend Ribol's advice.
If it's the thin wire it's a little more complicated to trace as the problem might lie in the ignition switch, the immobiliser (take note of Pupp's comment re: the immobiliser), the 'hot start' relay circuits (if fitted) or any of the associated wiring and connectors in between, including the actual wire supplying the solenoid. Unless you really know what you're doing here I'd consult a specialist.
The 100A fuse
To avoid any confusion, the 100A fuse has three distinct functions (the first two by design).
1. It protects the car's wiring system from damage that could be caused by certain alternator faults.
2. It protects the alternator from damage that could be caused by certain faults in the rest of the electrical system.
3. It fails randomly and frequently ultimately leaving you stranded at the side of the road.
In the first two cases it's possible the 100A fuse could prevent a fire in case of certain genuine faults. In the third case, where the fault lies in the fuse itself, all will happen is the charging circuit will stop working and the battery will ultimately lose its charge. If this happens whilst driving, other strange things may happen (rough running, etc.) before the car finally stops and is unable to be restarted. It has no direct effect in any other maladies.
Ribol said:
Cider Andy said:
I would not recommend Ribol's advice.
Can one ask why?Ribol said:
...always happy to learn from the on-line experts.
No need for sarcasm. 
I had much the same symptoms about a year ago. Quite often, but intermittently, my Chim would not start. The fuel pump would prime but the starter motor would not kick in.
Eventually after much frustration I discovered that if I slapped the under side of the passenger dash at the same time as I held the key in the start position then the starter motor would kick in and the car would start. Sometimes several slaps were required.
This lead to an investigation of what was under the passenger side of the dash. Amongst other things the immobiliser is in there. The immobiliser has circuits for the fuel pump and the starter motor and a failure of the starter motor circuit does cause the symptoms I was getting. A relay has probably developed a fault.
I booked in with Carl Baker (www.tvruk.tv) who fitted a new immobiliser for me. I've not had a starting problem since....
Eventually after much frustration I discovered that if I slapped the under side of the passenger dash at the same time as I held the key in the start position then the starter motor would kick in and the car would start. Sometimes several slaps were required.
This lead to an investigation of what was under the passenger side of the dash. Amongst other things the immobiliser is in there. The immobiliser has circuits for the fuel pump and the starter motor and a failure of the starter motor circuit does cause the symptoms I was getting. A relay has probably developed a fault.
I booked in with Carl Baker (www.tvruk.tv) who fitted a new immobiliser for me. I've not had a starting problem since....
Cider Andy said:
Ribol said:
Cider Andy said:
I would not recommend Ribol's advice.
Can one ask why?It isn't for me or anyone else to decide what the OP is/isn't comfortable doing, I credit him with the intelligence to decide for himself. The tongue in cheek disclaimer was there to help with that decision.
"I had much the same symptoms about a year ago. Quite often, but intermittently, my Chim would not start. The fuel pump would prime but the starter motor would not kick in."
Sorry to hijack thread, but did the light on the dash boad glow when you turned the key and the starter would not kick in? If so then I have the same issue as you had. Mine happens about once a week. Starts fine then nothing. Set unset alarm, turn key and bingo away we go! Of course this never happens when it is in the garage to be looked at!
Sorry to hijack thread, but did the light on the dash boad glow when you turned the key and the starter would not kick in? If so then I have the same issue as you had. Mine happens about once a week. Starts fine then nothing. Set unset alarm, turn key and bingo away we go! Of course this never happens when it is in the garage to be looked at!
bsdnazz said:
I had much the same symptoms about a year ago. Quite often, but intermittently, my Chim would not start. The fuel pump would prime but the starter motor would not kick in.
Eventually after much frustration I discovered that if I slapped the under side of the passenger dash at the same time as I held the key in the start position then the starter motor would kick in and the car would start. Sometimes several slaps were required.
Top advice! Eventually after much frustration I discovered that if I slapped the under side of the passenger dash at the same time as I held the key in the start position then the starter motor would kick in and the car would start. Sometimes several slaps were required.
My Chimaera just wouldnt start last night so I tried the underdash slap method and it fired up straight away! 
Brilliant! Got me home without having to use up one of my lives with the AA....going to get it booked in shortly. How did you think of that?blujay10 said:
bsdnazz said:
I had much the same symptoms about a year ago. Quite often, but intermittently, my Chim would not start. The fuel pump would prime but the starter motor would not kick in.
Eventually after much frustration I discovered that if I slapped the under side of the passenger dash at the same time as I held the key in the start position then the starter motor would kick in and the car would start. Sometimes several slaps were required.
Top advice! Eventually after much frustration I discovered that if I slapped the under side of the passenger dash at the same time as I held the key in the start position then the starter motor would kick in and the car would start. Sometimes several slaps were required.
My Chimaera just wouldnt start last night so I tried the underdash slap method and it fired up straight away! Brilliant! Got me home without having to use up one of my lives with the AA....going to get it booked in shortly. How did you think of that?Give that the problem was intermittent and not related to the car being hot, cold, left for a week or only stopped 10 mins ago I did suspect something electrical in the starting system. The big question was what.
After I got the car to start after slapping the dash, I would just slap the underside of the dash and then try to start the car. This usually, but not always worked. Sometimes the car would restart after being left for a while. I did keep a book in the car at one stage! It was only when I discovered that slapping the underside of the dash at the same time as holding the key in start *ALWAYS* (although sometimes after several slaps) worked that I asked around as to what was under/in the dash. Most posts pointed to the immobiliser. The rest is history.
The old immobiliser is in the garage waiting for me to spend an afternoon breaking into it.
Edited by bsdnazz on Friday 7th March 16:49
bsdnazz said:
blujay10 said:
bsdnazz said:
I had much the same symptoms about a year ago. Quite often, but intermittently, my Chim would not start. The fuel pump would prime but the starter motor would not kick in.
Eventually after much frustration I discovered that if I slapped the under side of the passenger dash at the same time as I held the key in the start position then the starter motor would kick in and the car would start. Sometimes several slaps were required.
Top advice! Eventually after much frustration I discovered that if I slapped the under side of the passenger dash at the same time as I held the key in the start position then the starter motor would kick in and the car would start. Sometimes several slaps were required.
My Chimaera just wouldnt start last night so I tried the underdash slap method and it fired up straight away! Brilliant! Got me home without having to use up one of my lives with the AA....going to get it booked in shortly. How did you think of that?Give that the problem was intermittent and not related to the car being hot, cold, left for a week or only stopped 10 mins ago I did suspect something electrical in the starting system. The big question was what.
After I got the car to start after slapping the dash, I would just slap the underside of the dash and then try to start the car. This usually, but not always worked. Sometimes the car would restart after being left for a while. I did keep a book in the car at one stage! It was only when I discovered that slapping the underside of the dash at the same time as holding the key in start *ALWAYS* (although sometimes after several slaps) worked that I asked around as to what was under/in the dash. Most posts pointed to the immobiliser. The rest is history.
The old immobiliser is in the garage waiting for me to spend an afternoon breaking into it.
Edited by bsdnazz on Friday 7th March 16:49
Thanks again & could anyone tell me if you can get a new alarm that does away with the immobiliser key as it is a bit annoying?
Have all of you solved your problems now?
This all looks like good advice.
I have been reading with interest. My Chimaera will not start. The battery went flat when I would have expected it to be okay, but have now changed it. Started the car up no problem and ran it until hot. Went back three days later to take it out and the fuel pump primes fine, then nothing when I try to start - not even a click.
Like to try and troubleshoot these things and fix them myself
, especially as I can't move the car to a garage if it won't start!
This is all looks like good advice, however, I have a question - how do I test if there is power to the solenoid/starter - do I need some 'device'??
Advice appreciated if anyone has a minute. Ta!
This all looks like good advice.
I have been reading with interest. My Chimaera will not start. The battery went flat when I would have expected it to be okay, but have now changed it. Started the car up no problem and ran it until hot. Went back three days later to take it out and the fuel pump primes fine, then nothing when I try to start - not even a click.
Like to try and troubleshoot these things and fix them myself
, especially as I can't move the car to a garage if it won't start!This is all looks like good advice, however, I have a question - how do I test if there is power to the solenoid/starter - do I need some 'device'??
Advice appreciated if anyone has a minute
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