Engine Troubles!
Discussion
Hmmnn,
Looks like bore liner gone in 450 Chim, as its using coolant, in fact spitting it out the exhaust.
No signs of coolant leak from rad or pipes, no oil contamination in coolant and no water in oil.... so assume not head gasket, but liner and therefore new block required. Same cost (almost) as replacing one liner.
Help need advice, who would you recommend replace the block and why?
Looks like bore liner gone in 450 Chim, as its using coolant, in fact spitting it out the exhaust.
No signs of coolant leak from rad or pipes, no oil contamination in coolant and no water in oil.... so assume not head gasket, but liner and therefore new block required. Same cost (almost) as replacing one liner.
Help need advice, who would you recommend replace the block and why?
Just had a rebuild done by TVR Power. Very happy with the service, not pushy at all and know their stuff - they should do as they built the engines in the first place! They have Cosworth re-engineered blocks at £999+VAT so that would be an option. In my experience they'll only do what is necessary so worth giving Dom a call to talk about your options.
James
James
GAVC said:
Hmmnn,
Looks like bore liner gone in 450 Chim, as its using coolant, in fact spitting it out the exhaust.
No signs of coolant leak from rad or pipes, no oil contamination in coolant and no water in oil.... so assume not head gasket, but liner and therefore new block required. Same cost (almost) as replacing one liner.
Help need advice, who would you recommend replace the block and why?
Sorry to hear that, I've had exactly the same with my 400, maybe it's due to these engines getting old now?. I've had top hat liners put in the existing block by Power. The replacement blocks they offer only fit a certain size of Rover V8 so you may want to check that first. I've had the rest of the work i.e. stripping, rebuilding done at the TVR Centre. Should (hopefully) get the car back this weekend......Looks like bore liner gone in 450 Chim, as its using coolant, in fact spitting it out the exhaust.
No signs of coolant leak from rad or pipes, no oil contamination in coolant and no water in oil.... so assume not head gasket, but liner and therefore new block required. Same cost (almost) as replacing one liner.
Help need advice, who would you recommend replace the block and why?
Just like anything else, I would get a few qoutes.
A bare block sounds reasonable but it is all the other stuff that adds up.
RPI are very experienced. They have shown me around their workshop and explained in great detail all the benefits of the new blocks that they are using for their new builds. It has a lot to do with the amount of metal around the water jacket on the larger capacity RV8s.
The Des Hamill book "How to Power tune Rover V8 engines" is brilliant for explaining why this sort of thing happens and what to be aware of for a new build.
A bare block sounds reasonable but it is all the other stuff that adds up.
RPI are very experienced. They have shown me around their workshop and explained in great detail all the benefits of the new blocks that they are using for their new builds. It has a lot to do with the amount of metal around the water jacket on the larger capacity RV8s.
The Des Hamill book "How to Power tune Rover V8 engines" is brilliant for explaining why this sort of thing happens and what to be aware of for a new build.
There is another possibility..
My old Griff 500 did this and it turned out to be a water jacket leak into the exhaust port.. so too much porting..
It was welded up and was a good as new.
If the liner has gone - a common cause for this is running too lean causing micro welds in the liner and the pistons rings keep hitting these pushing the liner up and down hundreds of times per second.
So - make sure to ask if it's running too lean..
Good luck.
My old Griff 500 did this and it turned out to be a water jacket leak into the exhaust port.. so too much porting..
It was welded up and was a good as new.
If the liner has gone - a common cause for this is running too lean causing micro welds in the liner and the pistons rings keep hitting these pushing the liner up and down hundreds of times per second.
So - make sure to ask if it's running too lean..
Good luck.
Many thanks for the replies, its a great help and I can start to look around for further options.
I like TVR Power a lot and have used them several times before, Dom has already quoted.... to replace one liner is about £750 because they can be difficult, which is almost as much as a new replacement block, which has the new 885 cam, chains etc.... (special quote £800) good deal!, and by the time its been taken out, rebuilt and put back, full cost with the labour is up to £3000 + the dreaded. Deep intake of breath!
I like TVR Power a lot and have used them several times before, Dom has already quoted.... to replace one liner is about £750 because they can be difficult, which is almost as much as a new replacement block, which has the new 885 cam, chains etc.... (special quote £800) good deal!, and by the time its been taken out, rebuilt and put back, full cost with the labour is up to £3000 + the dreaded. Deep intake of breath!
Apparently a major cause of liner slippage is the block getting too hot, which as we all know isn't uncommon on a TVR.
Rover themselves knew about it the problem as they had to increase the running temp on the last range rovers (88° stat fitted from 82° ) to help emissions and this led to a fair few rangies suffering from slipped liners.
Keep 'em cool chaps
Off to fit a 78°C stat in mine while I think about it
Matt
Rover themselves knew about it the problem as they had to increase the running temp on the last range rovers (88° stat fitted from 82° ) to help emissions and this led to a fair few rangies suffering from slipped liners.
Keep 'em cool chaps
Off to fit a 78°C stat in mine while I think about it
Matt
Edited by 350Matt on Saturday 29th March 12:06
350Matt said:
...(88° stat fitted from 82°
...
For emissions reasons only? ...As well as changing stats summer/winter do I now have to pop a special in at MOT time also?
Dave
on a serious note, it would be worth knowing if the 88 stat made much difference to the emissions - just for marginal cases
Mine cracked a piston liner a few years ago.
The work was carried out by Joospeed as it was at the time doing the in-out job and V8 developments doing the rebuild.
Top hat liners, new camshaft, crank re-grind, core plugs, rings, gaskets and a load of other bits.....
£2k for the engine and another £1k for the in and out including a new rad and a few other bits and bobs.
That was about 12k miles ago and it's been fine since.
The work was carried out by Joospeed as it was at the time doing the in-out job and V8 developments doing the rebuild.
Top hat liners, new camshaft, crank re-grind, core plugs, rings, gaskets and a load of other bits.....
£2k for the engine and another £1k for the in and out including a new rad and a few other bits and bobs.
That was about 12k miles ago and it's been fine since.
Chequred Demon said:
According to some sources, you should not run the engine temperature below 80 degrees, otherwise the ECU will consider the engine to be "cold" and therefore over fuel the mixture?
IMHO would run the 82 degrees thermostat.
I don't think you would be running the engine below 80 degrees. Surely the temp quoted is the temp that the stat opens? I thought the otter switch and fan controlled the engine temp whilst stationary?IMHO would run the 82 degrees thermostat.
Chequred Demon said:
According to some sources, you should not run the engine temperature below 80 degrees, otherwise the ECU will consider the engine to be "cold" and therefore over fuel the mixture?
IMHO would run the 82 degrees thermostat.
Thing is the temp of the stat isn't necessarily the temp your engine will run at (although it should if there was plenty of cooling capacity)IMHO would run the 82 degrees thermostat.
I've got an 82° stat in mine and it runs at 85 on the motorway and about 90 in town. And thats with an ally rad and twin fans
Mind you being a pre-cat it does have the smaller 'mouth' which probably isn't helping
Matt
Steve Heath recommends the 74 degree stat, hence just bought one. I'd use that or the 82 degree, as it just means they open at that temperature.
Having previously owned a Chim 500 which ran at 95 degrees before I changed the rad (!), it then ran at 85 on the motorway with normal rad, not alloy, and 90 in town only when it got very hot. Used a lower temp otter switch as well as water wetter.
In my experience the key was to start those fans before getting into heavy traffic, so heat was already being drawn away.
NB: the pre-cats are also coming out.....followed by cherry bombs at Offords!!
Having previously owned a Chim 500 which ran at 95 degrees before I changed the rad (!), it then ran at 85 on the motorway with normal rad, not alloy, and 90 in town only when it got very hot. Used a lower temp otter switch as well as water wetter.
In my experience the key was to start those fans before getting into heavy traffic, so heat was already being drawn away.
NB: the pre-cats are also coming out.....followed by cherry bombs at Offords!!
Edited by GAVC on Sunday 30th March 09:42
350Matt said:
Chequred Demon said:
According to some sources, you should not run the engine temperature below 80 degrees, otherwise the ECU will consider the engine to be "cold" and therefore over fuel the mixture?
IMHO would run the 82 degrees thermostat.
Thing is the temp of the stat isn't necessarily the temp your engine will run at (although it should if there was plenty of cooling capacity)IMHO would run the 82 degrees thermostat.
I've got an 82° stat in mine and it runs at 85 on the motorway and about 90 in town. And thats with an ally rad and twin fans
Mind you being a pre-cat it does have the smaller 'mouth' which probably isn't helping
Matt
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