Starter Will not work
Discussion
I have done a search but can't find any help.
I havet a starting problem that I don't think is anything to do with engine heat.
Though it mostly starts from cold OK unless I leave it for 4 or 5 days, over 5 months my 1996 Chimaera has failed to start 3 times when I have switched it off after a short run. Everything looks OK with the ignition on, but when you turn the key to the engine start position nothing happens. I have a new battery and ignition system.
Locking it and leaving it for 10 mins returns the car to normal and the car starts readily. On the last occasion I had been 5 miles to the shops, left the windscreen wipers on intermittent when I switched off. They stopped mid sweep when I turned the key and the car then would not start. I tried everything but no joy.
I left the car for 10 mins and it started fine, but though the wipers moved a fraction when I first turned the key they then wouldn't work, so I thought OK a fuse has blown. A few minutes later I moved the wiper stalk and the wipers sprang into life and everything has been OK since.
I believe the imobiliser can kill a few circuits if it is faulty?
Could it also be something to do with switching on/off the ignition briefly to access the boot, as that is the only time it has happened, so far?
I havet a starting problem that I don't think is anything to do with engine heat.
Though it mostly starts from cold OK unless I leave it for 4 or 5 days, over 5 months my 1996 Chimaera has failed to start 3 times when I have switched it off after a short run. Everything looks OK with the ignition on, but when you turn the key to the engine start position nothing happens. I have a new battery and ignition system.
Locking it and leaving it for 10 mins returns the car to normal and the car starts readily. On the last occasion I had been 5 miles to the shops, left the windscreen wipers on intermittent when I switched off. They stopped mid sweep when I turned the key and the car then would not start. I tried everything but no joy.
I left the car for 10 mins and it started fine, but though the wipers moved a fraction when I first turned the key they then wouldn't work, so I thought OK a fuse has blown. A few minutes later I moved the wiper stalk and the wipers sprang into life and everything has been OK since.
I believe the imobiliser can kill a few circuits if it is faulty?
Could it also be something to do with switching on/off the ignition briefly to access the boot, as that is the only time it has happened, so far?
Could be the immobiliser - with the key turned fully try tapping the underside of the dashboard on the passenger side. It may be enough to trip one of the relays in the immobiliser. Worked for me. Have subsequentky fixed the problem but saved a trip on the back of an AA truck!
Oh yes just make sure its out of gear.........
Oh yes just make sure its out of gear.........
How Bizarre!
I will certainly give it a go though.
Leaving it 5 to 10 minutes always works, which is what I don't get? If it was a loose wire or a sticky relay then I can't see why leaving it for that length of time works? Feels to me more like the Immobiliser re-sets itself after that period of time, because it doesn't like being switched on and off quickly??
I had a brand new Vauxhall Zafira where if you started it, moved a few feet and then switched it off again, it would not restart until it had reset itself? that probably happened 4 times in the 3 years we owned it
I will certainly give it a go though.
Leaving it 5 to 10 minutes always works, which is what I don't get? If it was a loose wire or a sticky relay then I can't see why leaving it for that length of time works? Feels to me more like the Immobiliser re-sets itself after that period of time, because it doesn't like being switched on and off quickly??
I had a brand new Vauxhall Zafira where if you started it, moved a few feet and then switched it off again, it would not restart until it had reset itself? that probably happened 4 times in the 3 years we owned it
I think I get what you mean?
If I put the keys in the ignition and turn it on without starting, so that I can press the boot release and then take time filling up with fuel or putting the shopping away, the immobiliser thinks that it should cut the starter circuit. When "nothing happens" it resets itself after 5-10 minutes?
One thing I have noticed is that I usually have to press the key fob to get the fuel pump to work. The hand book says that this should not be necessary. How long should it take to recognise the radio key once the ignition key is in the slot?
The handbook says the immobiliser will arm 8 seconds after switch off and you have to press the Radio key fob to start the car. I do this and/or insert the contact key and the light goes out and the fuel pump works but still nothing happens. I leave it for 5-10 minutes and as if by magic it works again?
If the fuel pump primes, should the starter work as well?
If I put the keys in the ignition and turn it on without starting, so that I can press the boot release and then take time filling up with fuel or putting the shopping away, the immobiliser thinks that it should cut the starter circuit. When "nothing happens" it resets itself after 5-10 minutes?
One thing I have noticed is that I usually have to press the key fob to get the fuel pump to work. The hand book says that this should not be necessary. How long should it take to recognise the radio key once the ignition key is in the slot?
The handbook says the immobiliser will arm 8 seconds after switch off and you have to press the Radio key fob to start the car. I do this and/or insert the contact key and the light goes out and the fuel pump works but still nothing happens. I leave it for 5-10 minutes and as if by magic it works again?
If the fuel pump primes, should the starter work as well?
spend said:
Are you sure its not that the immob is working correctly ie feature v fault? If the ign is off, the immob may 'lazy' activate after a given time and you need to arm/disarm, just like if you don't start the car quick enough after opening the doors?
Dave
Do you mean passive armingDave
Phil, under normal circumstances do your wipers work when the immobiliser is on? If they do, then it's unlikely the immobiliser has cut-in. If they don't, then it could be. Does your fuel pump prime? Do you notice problems with other electrical items, radio, lights, heater etc? Do these normally work when the immobiliser is on? Does the boot release work when this fault occurs? What's the state of the alarm LED? Just trying to help you pinpoint if it is related to the immobiliser circuit/s or if it's a more general electrical problem. Do you just have the factory fitted alarm/immobiliser? When I bought my Chimaera, oh a long time ago now, the insurance company insisted an additional immobiliser be fitted. HTH
I have not noticed the wipers before, so I can't say. It is the standard alarm and everything works fine, lights, guages, CD player, fan, indicators, windows, door locks etc.
The boot release works, the pump sometimes primes when I turn on the ignition, but from cold I usually have to press the fob.
The alarm light goes out as expected and flashes as expected.
It is simply that occasioanlly when I turn the key to the start position, nothing happens and then I have to lock and leave the car for 5-10 minutes and then everything is OK again?
I don't understand why waiting for a few minutes enables everything to sort itself out?
The boot release works, the pump sometimes primes when I turn on the ignition, but from cold I usually have to press the fob.
The alarm light goes out as expected and flashes as expected.
It is simply that occasioanlly when I turn the key to the start position, nothing happens and then I have to lock and leave the car for 5-10 minutes and then everything is OK again?
I don't understand why waiting for a few minutes enables everything to sort itself out?
I know you said you have a new battery BUT this sounds a lot like a problem I had a while back. Start fine from cold but when hot nothing not even a click from the starter solenoid. Leave it a few minutes and away it would go again. Thinking 'aha! its the hot start problem' I fitted the hot start kit but it was still playing up. So then I had a new starter motor fitted. The new motor span the engine a bit quicker and I thought all problems were solved....an hour after fitting found me sat at a petrol pump with so much as a click..again. Turns out my battery was shagged. The theory is that the plates were knackered inside. When cold they were bent away from each other so it worked. When the engine ran and charged it they got warm, bent the other way, shorted out and reduced battery power. Then once it had sat for a while the battry cooled down,plates bent away and bingo all working again.
Thats my non technical description of course ! Anyway replacing the batery finally solved it. In the 3 months prvious I had managed to let the battery go totally flat at least 3 times and that effectively killed it. Has your current battery ever gone totally flat ?
Thats my non technical description of course ! Anyway replacing the batery finally solved it. In the 3 months prvious I had managed to let the battery go totally flat at least 3 times and that effectively killed it. Has your current battery ever gone totally flat ?
1)
ETA. text changed.
Chequred Demon said:
...I usually have to press the key fob to get the fuel pump to work...
2)Chequred Demon said:
...I do this and/or insert the contact key and the light goes out and the fuel pump works but still nothing happens.
Phil, it sounds like you have a similar alarm set-up to me.ETA. text changed.
Edited by bam50 on Friday 28th March 16:51
bigdods said:
I know you said you have a new battery BUT this sounds a lot like a problem I had a while back. Start fine from cold but when hot nothing not even a click from the starter solenoid. Leave it a few minutes and away it would go again. Thinking 'aha! its the hot start problem' I fitted the hot start kit but it was still playing up. So then I had a new starter motor fitted. The new motor span the engine a bit quicker and I thought all problems were solved....an hour after fitting found me sat at a petrol pump with so much as a click..again. Turns out my battery was shagged. The theory is that the plates were knackered inside. When cold they were bent away from each other so it worked. When the engine ran and charged it they got warm, bent the other way, shorted out and reduced battery power. Then once it had sat for a while the battry cooled down,plates bent away and bingo all working again.
Thats my non technical description of course ! Anyway replacing the batery finally solved it. In the 3 months prvious I had managed to let the battery go totally flat at least 3 times and that effectively killed it. Has your current battery ever gone totally flat ?
That's what I was trying to elude to when I said:-Thats my non technical description of course ! Anyway replacing the batery finally solved it. In the 3 months prvious I had managed to let the battery go totally flat at least 3 times and that effectively killed it. Has your current battery ever gone totally flat ?
bam50 said:
...Just trying to help you pinpoint if it is related to the immobiliser circuit/s or if it's a more general electrical problem.
I.E. battery, earth, loose connection etc.I have not let the new battery get flat.
I have an accumate fitted though and with both this battery and the old battery it will not indicate that the battery is fully charged, which is odd? The battery does run down quickly if I leave it for a few days, which is much faster than I would exepect?
How long do they normally take to go flat if not used?
I could well believe the old battery was at fault, but surely not one that is just a few weeks old? The old battery did appear to have a cell gone when I chekced it in the vehicle, but now it charges fully and indicates 12.8v, so I believe in what you are saying, that when hot the plates could distort snd short circuit a cell.
I will put the multimeter in the car and check the battery voltage when appropriate.
I haven't tried the "tapping" of the column yet, but when it happens again I will.
I have an accumate fitted though and with both this battery and the old battery it will not indicate that the battery is fully charged, which is odd? The battery does run down quickly if I leave it for a few days, which is much faster than I would exepect?
How long do they normally take to go flat if not used?
I could well believe the old battery was at fault, but surely not one that is just a few weeks old? The old battery did appear to have a cell gone when I chekced it in the vehicle, but now it charges fully and indicates 12.8v, so I believe in what you are saying, that when hot the plates could distort snd short circuit a cell.
I will put the multimeter in the car and check the battery voltage when appropriate.
I haven't tried the "tapping" of the column yet, but when it happens again I will.
Chequred Demon said:
How long do they normally take to go flat if not used?
Phil, mine will easily last @2 weeks without use and still start the car.If you can easily reproduce the fault, start it-stop it/open boot etc, and have another car, just try complementing the existing battery with a set of jump leads to the other car. Forgiver this suggestion, but, I presume the terminals are well connected/tight.
Hi Bam50
I have just checked the battery terminal connections as RPI were the last people to connect the battery and they are good and tight (I can't turn them by hand, though access is tight) and look as new, with no corrosion. The passenger footwell feels dry.
The battery voltage is only 12.13 after leaving for 24 hours and 13.86 when charging from cold, measured through the accumate charging socket. The car started from cold very readily.
I have just checked the battery terminal connections as RPI were the last people to connect the battery and they are good and tight (I can't turn them by hand, though access is tight) and look as new, with no corrosion. The passenger footwell feels dry.
The battery voltage is only 12.13 after leaving for 24 hours and 13.86 when charging from cold, measured through the accumate charging socket. The car started from cold very readily.
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