It dont feel right at all.
Discussion
The TVR has been off the road for about 6 weeks when the PAS spewed fluid everywhere.
Got it reconditioned and reassembled. During this time the MOT expired and I had to sort that out. I knew the wheel alignment was out as when the rack was out two new track rod ends were fitted. Driving the car it all felt wrong like the steering was getting upset evertime I hit a bump. I assumed when wheel alignment was sorted all would be well again.
I just got the wheel alignment sorted after having to find someone who was prepared to obtain the data for the computer (as everyone else said they couldnt do it and referred me to the dealer). The problem with this was my nearest dealer is 30 miles away and I didnt feel the car was safe at speed.
The car has had all the wheel alignment done and it still feels all wrong. My car is a MK2 400 1997. Was there a difference in the wheel allignment between the MK1 and MK2 models of any significance to cause such issues? I can supply all my tracking details if this helps. Is it possible they performed a MK1 wheel alignment and this is my issue?
One thing I now need to do is disconnect the steering shaft UJ and move and refit as the steering wheel is not straight when the wheels are straight and cant be made to do so currently. I dont expect this to make a difference though.
Anybody out there got any thoughts? My pride and joy is starting to loseits shine with me.
Got it reconditioned and reassembled. During this time the MOT expired and I had to sort that out. I knew the wheel alignment was out as when the rack was out two new track rod ends were fitted. Driving the car it all felt wrong like the steering was getting upset evertime I hit a bump. I assumed when wheel alignment was sorted all would be well again.
I just got the wheel alignment sorted after having to find someone who was prepared to obtain the data for the computer (as everyone else said they couldnt do it and referred me to the dealer). The problem with this was my nearest dealer is 30 miles away and I didnt feel the car was safe at speed.
The car has had all the wheel alignment done and it still feels all wrong. My car is a MK2 400 1997. Was there a difference in the wheel allignment between the MK1 and MK2 models of any significance to cause such issues? I can supply all my tracking details if this helps. Is it possible they performed a MK1 wheel alignment and this is my issue?
One thing I now need to do is disconnect the steering shaft UJ and move and refit as the steering wheel is not straight when the wheels are straight and cant be made to do so currently. I dont expect this to make a difference though.
Anybody out there got any thoughts? My pride and joy is starting to loseits shine with me.
monstergrowler said:
The TVR has been off the road for about 6 weeks when the PAS spewed fluid everywhere.
Got it reconditioned and reassembled. During this time the MOT expired and I had to sort that out. I knew the wheel alignment was out as when the rack was out two new track rod ends were fitted. Driving the car it all felt wrong like the steering was getting upset evertime I hit a bump. I assumed when wheel alignment was sorted all would be well again.
I just got the wheel alignment sorted after having to find someone who was prepared to obtain the data for the computer (as everyone else said they couldnt do it and referred me to the dealer). The problem with this was my nearest dealer is 30 miles away and I didnt feel the car was safe at speed.
The car has had all the wheel alignment done and it still feels all wrong. My car is a MK2 400 1997. Was there a difference in the wheel allignment between the MK1 and MK2 models of any significance to cause such issues? I can supply all my tracking details if this helps. Is it possible they performed a MK1 wheel alignment and this is my issue?
One thing I now need to do is disconnect the steering shaft UJ and move and refit as the steering wheel is not straight when the wheels are straight and cant be made to do so currently. I dont expect this to make a difference though.
Anybody out there got any thoughts? My pride and joy is starting to loseits shine with me.
If you've had the steering alignment done like you say the steering wheel should be spot on straight.
Why don't you take it to a tyre centre and get them to check the tracking they don't need specialist knowledge.
V8 Animal
Got it reconditioned and reassembled. During this time the MOT expired and I had to sort that out. I knew the wheel alignment was out as when the rack was out two new track rod ends were fitted. Driving the car it all felt wrong like the steering was getting upset evertime I hit a bump. I assumed when wheel alignment was sorted all would be well again.
I just got the wheel alignment sorted after having to find someone who was prepared to obtain the data for the computer (as everyone else said they couldnt do it and referred me to the dealer). The problem with this was my nearest dealer is 30 miles away and I didnt feel the car was safe at speed.
The car has had all the wheel alignment done and it still feels all wrong. My car is a MK2 400 1997. Was there a difference in the wheel allignment between the MK1 and MK2 models of any significance to cause such issues? I can supply all my tracking details if this helps. Is it possible they performed a MK1 wheel alignment and this is my issue?
One thing I now need to do is disconnect the steering shaft UJ and move and refit as the steering wheel is not straight when the wheels are straight and cant be made to do so currently. I dont expect this to make a difference though.
Anybody out there got any thoughts? My pride and joy is starting to loseits shine with me.
If you've had the steering alignment done like you say the steering wheel should be spot on straight.
Why don't you take it to a tyre centre and get them to check the tracking they don't need specialist knowledge.
V8 Animal
Hi. If the steering feels funny when you hit a bump , you may very well have a 'bump steer' problem which is caused by the incorrect alignment of the rack to the upright pick up points via the track rods. This basically means that as the suspension travels it initiates an undesired steering input even though you are not moving the wheel. Not sure what has been done to your steering but worth getting the quick fit boys(or equivalent) to have a gander at it.. Best of luck
Nick................
Nick................
When I had my alignment done after changing the track rod ends, I had the MOT done at the same time, and the MOT guys reset the steering alignment before the geo was touched.
They realigned the steering to the wheel direction, which was about an inch down on the right hand side.
I can't see why the geo guys didn't pick up your wheel wasn't pointing in the right direction when they set it up.
As V8 Animal says, get it to your local tyre guys and they'll re-align it for you, no need for the agravation of pulling off the steering wheel intermediate shaft at the UJ etc.
They realigned the steering to the wheel direction, which was about an inch down on the right hand side.
I can't see why the geo guys didn't pick up your wheel wasn't pointing in the right direction when they set it up.
As V8 Animal says, get it to your local tyre guys and they'll re-align it for you, no need for the agravation of pulling off the steering wheel intermediate shaft at the UJ etc.
I would strongly recommend taking the car to a suspension specialist, preferably one who knows TVRS. In my expierence most Kwik fit tyre places that set tracking always use the back wheels as a reference. As TVR's are adjustable for track both front and rear they can get it in a right state.
Do a search for 4 Wheel alignment in your area and talk the problem through first with the technician.
If you're in the Daventry Area I can vouch for Steve Gugelemi at scared stiff motorsport or there's Trackcar in Cheshire
Matt
Do a search for 4 Wheel alignment in your area and talk the problem through first with the technician.
If you're in the Daventry Area I can vouch for Steve Gugelemi at scared stiff motorsport or there's Trackcar in Cheshire
Matt
Thanks for the input guys. A 4 wheel alignment has already been done with the very latest equipment. I had to wait a few days for the guys to get the data for there computer before they could do the alignment. Front and back was done. Prior to the steering rack being refurbished the car was spot on.
I think the issue may be with the linkage between the steering rack and steering wheel.
The UJ's and steering shaft were removed when I removed the rack. At the time I didnt think there was any issue disconnecting them. Digging around it seems to suggest that if the UJ's are not fitted correctly at particulalr orientations then it can cause the problems I am experiencing. I didnt take note of how they were, so now I dont have a clue how to put them correct. I think it will be a case of trial and error which is going to be a lengthy process. Be warned if you remove your rack then note everything. As an Engineer and someone who has perfromed restorations, engine rebuilds etc over the years, I am normally a stickler for noting details down and feel a bit of a muppet for making such an assumption.
Can any of you guys confirm my fears and offer any advice?
I think the issue may be with the linkage between the steering rack and steering wheel.
The UJ's and steering shaft were removed when I removed the rack. At the time I didnt think there was any issue disconnecting them. Digging around it seems to suggest that if the UJ's are not fitted correctly at particulalr orientations then it can cause the problems I am experiencing. I didnt take note of how they were, so now I dont have a clue how to put them correct. I think it will be a case of trial and error which is going to be a lengthy process. Be warned if you remove your rack then note everything. As an Engineer and someone who has perfromed restorations, engine rebuilds etc over the years, I am normally a stickler for noting details down and feel a bit of a muppet for making such an assumption.
Can any of you guys confirm my fears and offer any advice?
Thanks for comments chaps. Meant to respond sooner but been away on hols.
V8 I dont know what you mean when you say the UJs can only go on one way. The UJs go onto splined shafts and can be aligned in relation to the other UJ in any combination of spile increment. They can go on anyway and be out with the UJ on the other side. The bible says the alignment on these is crucial and describes the car pulling etc which is what I got. Its not suspension or anything like that as the car was pefect prior to rack removal and has had full wheel alignment on the best equipment possible at great cost.
Is there any one out there kind & helpful enough to take a picture or two and send to me to show me what the UJs on the rack and steering shaft look like in relation to each other when the wheels are pointed straight? As it stand I'm buggered as the nearest TVR dealer is over 30miles away and I would have to spend the majoirty of it on a fast 'A' road. As the car is I dont feel safe doing that.
Im starting to lose my heart with this car and the good times are becoming a distant memory.
As I have not been able to use it much its been a pig to start and keeps wanting to die unless I rev it. I suspect this is electrical and maybe a spot of damps got in.
V8 I dont know what you mean when you say the UJs can only go on one way. The UJs go onto splined shafts and can be aligned in relation to the other UJ in any combination of spile increment. They can go on anyway and be out with the UJ on the other side. The bible says the alignment on these is crucial and describes the car pulling etc which is what I got. Its not suspension or anything like that as the car was pefect prior to rack removal and has had full wheel alignment on the best equipment possible at great cost.
Is there any one out there kind & helpful enough to take a picture or two and send to me to show me what the UJs on the rack and steering shaft look like in relation to each other when the wheels are pointed straight? As it stand I'm buggered as the nearest TVR dealer is over 30miles away and I would have to spend the majoirty of it on a fast 'A' road. As the car is I dont feel safe doing that.
Im starting to lose my heart with this car and the good times are becoming a distant memory.
As I have not been able to use it much its been a pig to start and keeps wanting to die unless I rev it. I suspect this is electrical and maybe a spot of damps got in.
If it feels so bad that you don't feel safe driving it, there must be some pretty pronounced symptoms. Can you clarify what is wrong other than "it doesn't feel right"?
I don't think the alignment of the top steering relative to the bottom one is directly causing any handling issues. The only way I can see this might be relevant is if the two UJs are incorrectly fitted so that the steering wheel is wrongly positioned, and somebody has then tried to compensate by adjusting the track rod ends. That would leave unequal track rod end lengths which could introduce some bump steer. If so you want to fix it but that's not the sort of thing that would normally be associated with scary handling characteristics so I'm left with the feeling that there must be something else wrong. Perhaps if you can clarify what the symptoms are, it might be possible to guess what's up.
I don't think the alignment of the top steering relative to the bottom one is directly causing any handling issues. The only way I can see this might be relevant is if the two UJs are incorrectly fitted so that the steering wheel is wrongly positioned, and somebody has then tried to compensate by adjusting the track rod ends. That would leave unequal track rod end lengths which could introduce some bump steer. If so you want to fix it but that's not the sort of thing that would normally be associated with scary handling characteristics so I'm left with the feeling that there must be something else wrong. Perhaps if you can clarify what the symptoms are, it might be possible to guess what's up.
Hi,
The track rods end are equal and were adjusted when the wheel alignment was done. The problem Im having is bad bump steer. When the wheels are straight the steering wheel isnt. The bible suggests its importnat to mark them before dissembly otherwise you could get these problems and have a nightmare trying to sort it. Guess who errr umm assumed it didnt matter and didnt read the book?
The track rods end are equal and were adjusted when the wheel alignment was done. The problem Im having is bad bump steer. When the wheels are straight the steering wheel isnt. The bible suggests its importnat to mark them before dissembly otherwise you could get these problems and have a nightmare trying to sort it. Guess who errr umm assumed it didnt matter and didnt read the book?
With some racks there's a bolt that can be removed to give access to a dimple in the rack. You drop a pin into the dimple and that's the rack centralised. Then you adjust the track rod ends using proper tracking guages. The tyre centres I've been to have all been crap unless they've had a pair of guages. Even when they lock the steering wheel it's been off centre afterwards when driving.
You should be able to realign the steering wheel by taking it off and putting it back on straight, to me an offset wheel makes a car drive funny anyway, but your problem sounds worse than that. You said the rack has just been reconditioned its possible something might be a bit tight inside the rack. If you jack the front of the car up you should be able to turn the front wheels realativly easily and smoothly by hand, although unless you knew what you were looking for you would probaly need a good car to compare it to. I know its a completly different system but on a Land Rover you get a screw on top to adjust the clearance between the two gears inside get it. Too slack and there is a lot of play in the steering but get it too tight and you get the syptoms you have been discribing. I have never been inside a TVR rack but I would imagine they would do the same with shims, maybe someone on here has taken one apart before and knows what to expect. It could be worth talking to the people who reconditioned the rack.
monstergrowler said:
The problem Im having is bad bump steer. When the wheels are straight the steering wheel isnt.
Those are two separate problems with no obvious connection between them. Straightening the steering wheel is relatively straightforward. Sorting the bump steer is likely to be rather harder. If you've had the rack replaced the first thing to check is that the ends of the new rack are physically in the same place as the old rack was. If the rack has somehow been moved up or down that could have introduced bump steer.Bump steer would have to be massively intrusive before it rendered the car unsafe to drive sensibly and normally across country. Just how bad is it?
Green V8s has much more simply re-iterated what I said in an earlier post, and I reckon we are the nearest to diagnosing the problem. The steering wheel alignment is a seperate problem and can be rectified by centralising the wheel then adjusting the rod ends accordingly to provide the correct tracking and toe in. The 'bump steer' is a known and common problem within a cars geometry and is all about the location/mounting of and orientation, of the steering rack. Now if you say the rack has had work on it then it is there I would be looking, it doesn't take much misalignment to produce bump steer and as I said before, it can get bl****y scary !!
Nick.........
Nick.........
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