Time for more power... Options?
Poll: Time for more power... Options?
Total Members Polled: 57
Discussion
Right, having spent the last 2 years of ownership slowly fettling the car and improving bits here and there, I think I'm about ready for a power hike. I've spent this summer living in a hotel in Norfolk, working for a company who has been paying me rather well. Being that I currently have no outgoings and nothing really to spend my money on up here as all living costs are paid for. I think my 4 months spent in solitary confinement warrant some serious spending on the Chim. I drive it every day and it's so far only put one foot wrong in 20k miles when a clutch cylinder seal went pop after 10 years of use. I've given the car lots of attention and now have a sorted chassis, sorted electrics, great interior, new alarm, new wheels, rebuilt gearbox, Helix clutch, good bushes, Nitron shocks, Wilwood brakes, s/h droplinks, Emerald ecu, lots of ACT stuff and no cooling problems whatsoever. In short, it goes round corners great, stops great, works without fault, is in great all around condition and is therefore ready for more power.
I don't plan on selling the car at all, and after starting to track the car, I've found it to be hugely good fun but find it lacking a bit in the kick in the back department. I've probably got around 6/7K to spend on the car if I want to go all out and have a current engine spec as follows:
- 97 Serpentine 450 engine which has done 60K miles
- 72mm throttle
- 45mm superflare carbon trumpets & 45mm base
- ACT induction kit with AFM removed
- Stock heads though these are apparently big valved but not gas flowed
- ACT decat manifolds & exhaust
- Running wasted spark (no dizzy) via the Emerald ECU
- MC1 cam put in 18 months ago which is currently not timed in properly. Not sure by how much, but top 1k revs seems to be a struggle for the car and after checking all other routes I asked a specialist drive the car. Without telling him my ideas to the source of the problem, his instant response was cam time so I'm fairly confident this will need sorting if not replacing.
With this setup it currently puts out 240bhp and 300lbs/ft at the wheels suggesting a healthy engine.
So on to the options...
From what I can see, (and I don't pretend to be an expert) I have a number of routes I could take.
- I could change the cam for one a hot one as the Emerald is likely to tame any low-down problems, and while its opened up, do some head work.
- Re-time the existing cam or replace it with something hotter and suited to supercharging and bolt on one of SC-Power's kits which would go nicely with the Emerald running adaptive mapping and EGT sensor.
- Have my engine re-built to a 4.7 or 8 high spec with provision for supercharging at a later date.
- Sell my engine and go for a new one built to 5.x spec, again with provision for supercharging at a later date.
I've yet to go out and get prices yet apart from the SC-Power stuff which after witnessing at Snetterton a couple of weeks ago I must say I'm very impressed with. So I'm really looking for a sensible (as sensible as you can be spending that much on a car), route to take to ensure I can go faster without too much fear of breaking it for years to come, and without blowing my budget out of the water. As I said, I have possibly up to 6/7K to spend on the project (but any change would be lovely obviously) and as far as target power is concerned, I'm just going to be childish and say 'as much as possible', but I like torque rather than all out horsepower.
So to round up this rambling post, what would you do?
(Before you ask, I am looking to put a roll-over bar and harness in the car at the same time!)
I don't plan on selling the car at all, and after starting to track the car, I've found it to be hugely good fun but find it lacking a bit in the kick in the back department. I've probably got around 6/7K to spend on the car if I want to go all out and have a current engine spec as follows:
- 97 Serpentine 450 engine which has done 60K miles
- 72mm throttle
- 45mm superflare carbon trumpets & 45mm base
- ACT induction kit with AFM removed
- Stock heads though these are apparently big valved but not gas flowed
- ACT decat manifolds & exhaust
- Running wasted spark (no dizzy) via the Emerald ECU
- MC1 cam put in 18 months ago which is currently not timed in properly. Not sure by how much, but top 1k revs seems to be a struggle for the car and after checking all other routes I asked a specialist drive the car. Without telling him my ideas to the source of the problem, his instant response was cam time so I'm fairly confident this will need sorting if not replacing.
With this setup it currently puts out 240bhp and 300lbs/ft at the wheels suggesting a healthy engine.
So on to the options...
From what I can see, (and I don't pretend to be an expert) I have a number of routes I could take.
- I could change the cam for one a hot one as the Emerald is likely to tame any low-down problems, and while its opened up, do some head work.
- Re-time the existing cam or replace it with something hotter and suited to supercharging and bolt on one of SC-Power's kits which would go nicely with the Emerald running adaptive mapping and EGT sensor.
- Have my engine re-built to a 4.7 or 8 high spec with provision for supercharging at a later date.
- Sell my engine and go for a new one built to 5.x spec, again with provision for supercharging at a later date.
I've yet to go out and get prices yet apart from the SC-Power stuff which after witnessing at Snetterton a couple of weeks ago I must say I'm very impressed with. So I'm really looking for a sensible (as sensible as you can be spending that much on a car), route to take to ensure I can go faster without too much fear of breaking it for years to come, and without blowing my budget out of the water. As I said, I have possibly up to 6/7K to spend on the project (but any change would be lovely obviously) and as far as target power is concerned, I'm just going to be childish and say 'as much as possible', but I like torque rather than all out horsepower.
So to round up this rambling post, what would you do?
(Before you ask, I am looking to put a roll-over bar and harness in the car at the same time!)
David Beer said:
not able to tell you, shame really as if people were able to speak, I would not of wasted my money.
O dear David, that sounds like a soul destroying story you have there and come the end of next year i too am thinking about some major mods but you could allways tell your story through the eye's of a 3rd party so to speak :-).I see merit in both the forced induction routes and normally aspirated. For myself I chose tuning the 5 litre because it's initially a nice challenge to play about with pulse/wave/momentum tuning effects but if I get bored with my current spec i may well go FInduction in the future.
My 5 litre spec is:
TVR 5 litre bottom end and heads rebuilt by me but nothing special just a clean fresh build
cam by Rob at V8D (spec unknown but it's solid lifter/adjustable pushrods)
Emerald ecu
V8Enhancements exhaust manifold and 3 inch system
TCS/Raceproved 8 throttle plate inlet
curently at 355hp / 340lb.ft
My 5 litre spec is:
TVR 5 litre bottom end and heads rebuilt by me but nothing special just a clean fresh build
cam by Rob at V8D (spec unknown but it's solid lifter/adjustable pushrods)
Emerald ecu
V8Enhancements exhaust manifold and 3 inch system
TCS/Raceproved 8 throttle plate inlet
curently at 355hp / 340lb.ft
What do you think I could get away with on an otherwise std 5 litre bottom end Mike? Ive now changed to an Emerald from the KMS as i wanted to play about with traction control, but it's also got a very good boost control in it so will be ideal for going turbo when you're ready for some playing 
is 400hp too much you think?
is 400hp too much you think?TVR Moneypit said:
Get a brand new motor built up to a high quality spec, with the view of forced induction later on.
This is perhaps why your TVR is a moneypit? you're doing things the wrong way around
A nice engine for FI will probably be lower hp normally aspirated than he has now, and take most of his budget .. so by the time he can afford to FI it (a few years?) he's been driving around in a slower car! I say : if you're going to go FI anyway, do it to your engine as-is and if it breaks at some point in the future then go on to rebuild it, at least you gain in performance in the meantime! And an FI engine won't be needing to rev higher so if it does fail it won't put a rod through the block or anything nasty so most of the engine will be saved
What do the FI gurus say? Boosted whats youre take on that?
Dave and myself usually have similar views on this one, both having had a less than ideal and rather expensive outcome after visiting the “tuners”
The key thing I learnt is to explain very carefully and ideally in writing exactly what you want to achieve. Don’t simply go to your chosen “expert” and ask for more power, carefully explain what else you want as well which may include a car that you can still reasonably comfortably drive on the road and perhaps one that doesn’t keep breaking or dumping oil. The other thing I learnt is just because a “tuner” is well reviewed on here don’t assume everybody is happy. Seek out some customers and speak to them before you commit. Most I am certain are good but some aren’t so choose carefully or do it yourself.
The key thing I learnt is to explain very carefully and ideally in writing exactly what you want to achieve. Don’t simply go to your chosen “expert” and ask for more power, carefully explain what else you want as well which may include a car that you can still reasonably comfortably drive on the road and perhaps one that doesn’t keep breaking or dumping oil. The other thing I learnt is just because a “tuner” is well reviewed on here don’t assume everybody is happy. Seek out some customers and speak to them before you commit. Most I am certain are good but some aren’t so choose carefully or do it yourself.
All depends on how much power you want really
If you want to use the car every day without any hassles of special drive-shafts and special gearbox / clutch required etc etc then I wouldn't go much over the 300 ponies mark which you should be able to achieve with your current set-up + some decent heads ( take a look at the real steel bespoke casting items, they are excellent value) and a lairy cam.
If you want more than that then supercharging is the way forward but be prepared to start forking out for a beefed up box / clutch driveshafts etc
Bear in mind the old rover gets expensive to tune to modern levels without using forced induction
Matt
If you want to use the car every day without any hassles of special drive-shafts and special gearbox / clutch required etc etc then I wouldn't go much over the 300 ponies mark which you should be able to achieve with your current set-up + some decent heads ( take a look at the real steel bespoke casting items, they are excellent value) and a lairy cam.
If you want more than that then supercharging is the way forward but be prepared to start forking out for a beefed up box / clutch driveshafts etc
Bear in mind the old rover gets expensive to tune to modern levels without using forced induction
Matt
thenick said:
Hmm so far it looks like an overwhelming vote for the supercharger! I must say I do like the idea of having a blown V8... Thinking at the moment of sorting the cam and blowing the motor with a view to a 4.x rebuild with strong internals and more boost at a later date...
If you're going blown, then your current MC1 cam is a good cam for it (SC-power are developing a cam specially for their kit if you do "need" to change it). My blown 500 is running an MC1 cam and its very smooth (with loads of power upto the rev limiter)
Stealth cam or any high lift/wild cams are no good for FI, so if your cam is ok and just needs timing then that £1k towards your SC
Edited by Bluebottle on Monday 4th August 19:08
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff