white spark plugs
Discussion
i have pure white spark plugs what does this mean ?ive done a few mods ,mc1 cam ,act induction kit ,k&n air filter and carbon trumpets . im thinking of a bored out afm and thats about it .does any one think its ready for chipping may be its not getting the fuel it needs .any ideas .im useing ngk 6es and not the ngk 7es if that makes a difference
Edited by daz the plumber on Sunday 12th October 20:37
It can also mean the plugs are running hot 
why have you put sixes in instead of the standard sevens? 
dont play with plug heat ranges it can sometimes end in valve or worse still piston failures,and there is a noticeable difference between 6 & 7 NGK do have a wide operating range but you dont want to run outside that.
why have you put sixes in instead of the standard sevens? dont play with plug heat ranges it can sometimes end in valve or worse still piston failures,and there is a noticeable difference between 6 & 7 NGK do have a wide operating range but you dont want to run outside that.
daz the plumber said:
because rpi said they are a waste of money and they use the sixes on there morgans , you can get four for the price of one .i will put the others back in, what is the plug gap .so it may just be the plugs .what is the difference ?
You dont have to run the B7ECS(tvr fitted plugs)but you can use BP7ES same as your using but cooler(and just as cheap)its the heat range that you need to maintain,if your running a bit lean i would be glad of the cooler plug,although the running lean situation should be dealt with as soon as poss(no thrashing for the moment)get it checked out.Edited by That Daddy on Monday 13th October 00:40
That Daddy said:
You dont have to run the B7ECS(tvr fitted plugs)but you can use BP7ES same as your using but cooler(and just as cheap)its the heat range that you need to maintain,if your running a bit lean i would be glad of the cooler plug,although the running lean situation should be dealt with as soon as poss(no thrashing for the moment)get it checked out.
There are differences between those two plugs, if you compare them it is clearly visible.Not saying the cheaper plug (boring old Champion N7YC equivalent) cannot work but when you consider the overall runing costs of these cars is it really worth messing about with something which "may" cause so much damage for such a small saving?
BTW, I was told by an NGK rep that the number is only a relative temp for each range, the same number on two different NGK plug ranges does not mean they work at exactly the same temp.
Could have been boll ox though, he was a sales rep after all
Ribol said:
That Daddy said:
You dont have to run the B7ECS(tvr fitted plugs)but you can use BP7ES same as your using but cooler(and just as cheap)its the heat range that you need to maintain,if your running a bit lean i would be glad of the cooler plug,although the running lean situation should be dealt with as soon as poss(no thrashing for the moment)get it checked out.
There are differences between those two plugs, if you compare them it is clearly visible.Not saying the cheaper plug (boring old Champion N7YC equivalent) cannot work but when you consider the overall runing costs of these cars is it really worth messing about with something which "may" cause so much damage for such a small saving?
BTW, I was told by an NGK rep that the number is only a relative temp for each range, the same number on two different NGK plug ranges does not mean they work at exactly the same temp.
Could have been boll ox though, he was a sales rep after all
k all damage,the tvr fitted plug as a slightly recessed electrode(for no good reason)and the BP7ES slightly purtrudes like all the other RV8 standard fitted plugs,i would never advise something that could cause engine damage,and would consider my self an authority on NGK & Denso spark plugs 
i also know what you can and cant do with them 
just putting it straight Ivan 
and agree with Graham, yes i run BP7ES plugs also.Edited by That Daddy on Monday 13th October 10:45
That Daddy said:
Ivan,it will cause fk all damage,the tvr fitted plug as a slightly recessed electrode(for no good reason)and the BP7ES slightly purtrudes like all the other RV8 standard fitted plugs,i would never advise something that could cause engine damage,and would consider my self an authority on NGK & Denso spark plugs i also know what you can and cant do with them just putting it straight Ivan and agree with Graham, yes i run BP7ES plugs also.
Fair enough, like I said, not saying they cannot work, just pointing out that there are differences. Wouldn't claim to be a plug expert (far too many experts on this site already k all damage,the tvr fitted plug as a slightly recessed electrode(for no good reason)and the BP7ES slightly purtrudes like all the other RV8 standard fitted plugs,i would never advise something that could cause engine damage,and would consider my self an authority on NGK & Denso spark plugs i also know what you can and cant do with them just putting it straight Ivan and agree with Graham, yes i run BP7ES plugs also.) but NGK are and I cannot see them tooling up to make the threaded part differently (eg internal tapered end) for no reason at all.In the same way that Champion made an N5 and N9Y plug which were identical heat range wise and almost identical to look at. On certain applications one fouled up in traffic, the other one didn't, hence why they produced both.
Having said all that, if you look at the NGK case rate buying prices for both plugs it does make you wonder why the TVR plug retails for so much more - I guess we already know the answer to that one, because it can
Its very easy to sneer at things costing more, but...
As soon as you tune an engine and have a bit more compression and more aggressive advance you open up a pandoras box. Ensuring things are smoother, more rounded (sharp edges will increase the chance of detonation) doesn't seem to lend itself to standard manufacturing or QA. The additional 'human' time in the process significantly increases costs, so don't be surprised. Maybe your particular engine doesn't need the recessed plug, but there maybe a few TVR engines where the pistons are much closer and moving the flame front would have negative consequences? I'm pretty sure Dom & co didn't just specify a plug because it cost more, limited shelf space so that they had to pick the more compatible component that covered the full range of engines might be a reason? You still have to think a little about the consequences of making ANY changes, some have quite unpredicted side affects when you start changing things. Seems to me that you can do just about anything to the 4.0 litre engines, but on the others you have to take a lot more care, and what works for one may not for another. We have all seen reports from Rob Robertson that they have seen some 450's that are standard LR 4.6's yet we also know that some 450's are as highly tuned as 500's.... How many owners know the exact make up of their own engines - you only find out when you take them to pieces
As soon as you tune an engine and have a bit more compression and more aggressive advance you open up a pandoras box. Ensuring things are smoother, more rounded (sharp edges will increase the chance of detonation) doesn't seem to lend itself to standard manufacturing or QA. The additional 'human' time in the process significantly increases costs, so don't be surprised. Maybe your particular engine doesn't need the recessed plug, but there maybe a few TVR engines where the pistons are much closer and moving the flame front would have negative consequences? I'm pretty sure Dom & co didn't just specify a plug because it cost more, limited shelf space so that they had to pick the more compatible component that covered the full range of engines might be a reason? You still have to think a little about the consequences of making ANY changes, some have quite unpredicted side affects when you start changing things. Seems to me that you can do just about anything to the 4.0 litre engines, but on the others you have to take a lot more care, and what works for one may not for another. We have all seen reports from Rob Robertson that they have seen some 450's that are standard LR 4.6's yet we also know that some 450's are as highly tuned as 500's.... How many owners know the exact make up of their own engines - you only find out when you take them to pieces
spend said:
Its very easy to sneer at things costing more, but...
I suspect most of us wouldn't expect Alonso to be paying the same as us for plugs but then his plugs really are special and not likely to be found on the shelves of better motor factors - unlike ours.The difference in cost between the two plugs being discussed here is a different matter, they are made to the same standard but just produced in different quantities.
So as not to upset too many people who make a living at this (as I know some of them), let's just say that the difference in retail prices is a little more than one would expect (knowing what they cost)
whats changed Daz? i am confused Ribol said:
So as not to upset too many people who make a living at this (as I know some of them), let's just say that the difference in retail prices is a little more than one would expect (knowing what they cost)
If you have to leave money tied up in stock as well as storing them with the possibility that they never get sold, you will obviously want greater margins. If you are implying that certain sellers are ripping you off, buy them elsewhere, prices vary greatly.. Why be negative, if a business doesn't really want the hassle of selling specialized parts thats their prerogative, no big deal? Accusing TVR (Power) of specifying over engineered service parts generally is just plain stupidity IMHO. You can find exceptions but each must be taken on a case by case basis Caveat Emptor
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff