MARK ADAMS TORNADO CHIP FEEDBACK REQUIRED

[Chimpaholic]

Dear all,

I am looking for anybody with experience of fitting the Mark Adams Tornado chip.

Lots of references come up when I search PH but I cant seem to find an honest review of the before and after effects.

There is lots spoken about the need for a rolling road session by Mark to get the chip matched correctly to a specific car and realise its full potential.

However the rolling road session pushes the price up significantly.

I had a chat with Tim Lamont from ACT who advised me that too much emphasis is put on the need for the rolling road session.

Tim indicated that significant benefits are still available from a "best guess" chip.

So I am particularly keen to get feedback from anybody that simply fitted the "best guess" chip after communicating the details of their car to Mark.

The areas I am keen to get feedback on (in order of importance to me) are as follows:

1) Economy

2) Driveability

3) Throttle response

4) Power

I am fully aware that an updated after market ECU & junking the distributor for a mapped spark is ultimately the way to go.

However cost is a significant consideration to me.

In summary if I invest £420.00 of my hard earned on the "best guess" chip, what benefits can I realistically expect.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by Chimpaholic on Wednesday 16th June 11:01

Edited by Chimpaholic on Wednesday 16th June 12:32

[Targarama]

I had the chip in my Chimaera 4.0L, it was fitted a few months before Mark's session, to be honest the car didn't feel that much different before the session. The big difference was after the rolling road session. So from personal experience I'd say get the rolling road session at some point - maybe break the cost by having the session in a few months time.

[SILICONE KID]

I will have a Tornado chip and ECU for sale in a few weeks .You can send the chip to him for a best guess map for your engine or try and get him to put it on the rollers .Please Email me if your interested .

[blitzracing]

I have run a Tornado against the TVR chip on a 3.9. The fueling pattern on the Tornado is very tightly controlled compared to the TVR( ie the base map is very close) under normal driving conditions (ie less than 3400 rpm with lambda control). This gives slightly better economy and less snatching as the ECU only makes small corrections. The cold start fuelling is also much better than the TVR, as it puts in much less fuel, again helping the MPG. Ive not done back to back power testing flat out, but I doubt you will gain any peak BHP, as the TVR maps are fuelled up for full power already. As for best guess, this only works as the ECU can make some pretty massive fueling corrections if the mapping is wrong (+/- 20%) and you would not notice unless the corrections are very large. You can only see these corrections taking place with a display on the Lambda outputs, as big corrections cause the cycle rate to decrease.

[Chimpaholic]

SILICONE KID said:

I will have a Tornado chip and ECU for sale in a few weeks .You can send the chip to him for a best guess map for your engine or try and get him to put it on the rollers .Please Email me if your interested .

You have mail.

[Chimpaholic]

blitzracing said:

I have run a Tornado against the TVR chip on a 3.9. The fueling pattern on the Tornado is very tightly controlled compared to the TVR( ie the base map is very close) under normal driving conditions (ie less than 3400 rpm with lambda control). This gives slightly better economy and less snatching as the ECU only makes small corrections. The cold start fuelling is also much better than the TVR, as it puts in much less fuel, again helping the MPG. Ive not done back to back power testing flat out, but I doubt you will gain any peak BHP, as the TVR maps are fuelled up for full power already. As for best guess, this only works as the ECU can make some pretty massive fueling corrections if the mapping is wrong (+/- 20%) and you would not notice unless the corrections are very large. You can only see these corrections taking place with a display on the Lambda outputs, as big corrections cause the cycle rate to decrease.

Thanks blitzracing, so the "best Guess" chip would still give improvements in economy and drivability below 3400 rpm even if the map wasn't best suited to my car?

Actually you may remember I solved my shunting problem with the SC-Power plenum spacer kit.

http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...

There was lots of interest at the time & even Mark Adams added some comments about the relationship between the trumpet mouths and the plenum roof.

To be honest since the mods I am very happy with the way the car performs & I wouldnt want to mess this up.

Its just it would be nice to improve the MPG a bit, mainly to extend the tank range as I have a trip to the South of France coming up.

I have had some success in the past improving MPG on classics by altering the advance/retard springs and fitting an adjustable vacuum advance unit.

Has anyone had any successes doing this on the TVR RV8?

I know someone will come along in a minute and tell me to MegaJolt/Squirt it but TBH I am looking for something way more cost effective.

Perhaps a second hand Tornado chip will prove to be the most cost effective solution in the end.

However if it makes the car run worse I guess I would be left to beg Mark Adams for a rolling road session?

And from what I hear that can take some time to arrange?

Edited by Chimpaholic on Wednesday 16th June 13:17

[Mr MoJo]

I'm having a Tornado chip along with the ACT Tornado 5 kit (carbon trumpets, 71mm plenum, 72mm Bosch afm, Bosch fuel pressure reg etc) in July. I will also be bugging MA to get on the rollers as soon after fitting as I can !! Looking forward to seeing the results. As has been said though MA seems to be a very busy
man so will be using the car on a 'best guess' chip to start with.

[thegman]

I have a Tornado chip and had a RR session with Mark. I would say

1. Difference to max BHP will depend very much on how modified your vehicle is over std. (and how poorly it is running today) I gained approx 10% - TBH a bit dissapointing as I hoped for more.
2. Fuel economy. TBH I havent really noticed a difference. However I don't do a regular journey like a commute for comparison.
3. Smoothness - definite improvment here. Shunting pretty much gone and very smooth all the way through.

Mark's service was excellent and he went out of his way, working until 9pm at night to get it done for me. The chip and the session are expensive though.

In summary I would say if you have a std car and dont really have any issues with the way it drives - it is probably not great value.. however if you have lots of mods or are experiencing problems, the combination of chipping and a proper tune will make a lot of difference.

[Chimpaholic]

thegman said:

I have a Tornado chip and had a RR session with Mark. I would say

1. Difference to max BHP will depend very much on how modified your vehicle is over std. (and how poorly it is running today) I gained approx 10% - TBH a bit dissapointing as I hoped for more.
2. Fuel economy. TBH I havent really noticed a difference. However I don't do a regular journey like a commute for comparison.
3. Smoothness - definite improvment here. Shunting pretty much gone and very smooth all the way through.

Mark's service was excellent and he went out of his way, working until 9pm at night to get it done for me. The chip and the session are expensive though.

In summary I would say if you have a std car and dont really have any issues with the way it drives - it is probably not great value.. however if you have lots of mods or are experiencing problems, the combination of chipping and a proper tune will make a lot of difference.

Thanks thegman, that's just the kind of comprehensive and honest answer I was looking for.

Its very frustrating how expensive it is to make tangible improvements to the fuelling on our cars.

I have heard the figure of £700 plus bandied around for the chip and RR session with mark.

I guess this sort of figure didn't seem so bad when our cars were a bit newer.

However now a good Chim can be had for between £7k - 8k I'm finding it hard to justify spending nearly 10% of the cars value making moderate improvements.

Its certainly going to take an awful lot of miles to get a meaningful percentage of the outlay back in fuel savings.

Still toying with the SILICONE KID offer of a second-hand chip though.

Followed by a £25 best guess Mark Adams remap.

Followed by a Mark Adams rolling road session.

This way I get to spread the cost, however I'm just a little concerned about taking a punt on a used chip.

Edited by Chimpaholic on Wednesday 16th June 16:39

Edited by Chimpaholic on Wednesday 16th June 16:43

[SP6 Animal]

It will cost you best part of a grand for chip and roller session and could take up to a year to get that done.

I did it and it was a bit quicker but value for money no.

The only real value you can put on the roller session is the faults that show up on your car i had a leaking valley gasket and cam wear at certain revs.

But saying that i would'nt do it again bought a SP6 instead.

[Chimjunkie]

I would say the Tornado chip route is best done if doing serious modifications to engine. Cant see the value if the engine is near standard.

[blitzracing]

Chimpaholic said:

thegman said:

I have a Tornado chip and had a RR session with Mark. I would say

1. Difference to max BHP will depend very much on how modified your vehicle is over std. (and how poorly it is running today) I gained approx 10% - TBH a bit dissapointing as I hoped for more.
2. Fuel economy. TBH I havent really noticed a difference. However I don't do a regular journey like a commute for comparison.
3. Smoothness - definite improvment here. Shunting pretty much gone and very smooth all the way through.

Mark's service was excellent and he went out of his way, working until 9pm at night to get it done for me. The chip and the session are expensive though.

In summary I would say if you have a std car and dont really have any issues with the way it drives - it is probably not great value.. however if you have lots of mods or are experiencing problems, the combination of chipping and a proper tune will make a lot of difference.

Thanks thegman, that's just the kind of comprehensive and honest answer I was looking for.

Its very frustrating how expensive it is to make tangible improvements to the fuelling on our cars.

I have heard the figure of £700 plus bandied around for the chip and RR session with mark.

I guess this sort of figure didn't seem so bad when our cars were a bit newer.

However now a good Chim can be had for between £7k - 8k I'm finding it hard to justify spending nearly 10% of the cars value making moderate improvements.

Its certainly going to take an awful lot of miles to get a meaningful percentage of the outlay back in fuel savings.

Still toying with the SILICONE KID offer of a second-hand chip though.

Followed by a £25 best guess Mark Adams remap.

Followed by a Mark Adams rolling road session.

This way I get to spread the cost, however I'm just a little concerned about taking a punt on a used chip.

Edited by Chimpaholic on Wednesday 16th June 16:39

Edited by Chimpaholic on Wednesday 16th June 16:43

The chip itself is of very little value, the value is purely the data within it. Its up to Mark Adams what he wants to charge to reprogram it , or provide a new chip (effectively giving the old chip a trade in value way above its component value). These chips from the 1980's can get static damaged and fail over time, so it depends how its been handled in the past will influence how likely it is to fail at some point. What makes you think you have a current mapping problem?

[markreilly]

Quinny said:

IMO, I can't see the point in paying £400 ish for a best guess chip, and not doing the Rolling Road....

Yes its expensive to do the whole job, but to put it into some sort of perspective, I had mine done in 2005... It cost around £900, but some of that was additional parts, like lambdas, fuel preasure reg and odds and ends...

But, and here's the clincher for me..... I haven't spent a single penny on silly fueling faults since....

My car starts first time everytime, settles to a perfect idle, ticks over perfectly hot or cold, pulls all the way through the revs, and whenever I change the plugs, all 8 are a perfect grey colour..

+1

[roysum]

Quinny said:

IMO, I can't see the point in paying £400 ish for a best guess chip, and not doing the Rolling Road....

Yes its expensive to do the whole job, but to put it into some sort of perspective, I had mine done in 2005... It cost around £900, but some of that was additional parts, like lambdas, fuel preasure reg and odds and ends...

But, and here's the clincher for me..... I haven't spent a single penny on silly fueling faults since....

My car starts first time everytime, settles to a perfect idle, ticks over perfectly hot or cold, pulls all the way through the revs, and whenever I change the plugs, all 8 are a perfect grey colour..

How often do you change the plugs then Quinny ? twice a year ?

Roy

[K4TRV]

Chimjunkie said:

I would say the Tornado chip route is best done if doing serious modifications to engine. Cant see the value if the engine is near standard.

+2

[roysum]

K4TRV said:

Chimjunkie said:

I would say the Tornado chip route is best done if doing serious modifications to engine. Cant see the value if the engine is near standard.

+2

Twaddle IMHO, just increased my max revs from app 5.5k to 6.5k.

[Chimjunkie]

roysum said:

K4TRV said:

Chimjunkie said:

I would say the Tornado chip route is best done if doing serious modifications to engine. Cant see the value if the engine is near standard.

+2

Twaddle IMHO, just increased my max revs from app 5.5k to 6.5k.

???? what are you saying?

[roysum]

Chimjunkie said:

roysum said:

K4TRV said:

Chimjunkie said:

I would say the Tornado chip route is best done if doing serious modifications to engine. Cant see the value if the engine is near standard.

+2

Twaddle IMHO, just increased my max revs from app 5.5k to 6.5k.

???? what are you saying?

I'm saying that the Tornado has dramatically increased the rev limit, hence performance. Ok I have also carried out some other mods, but now I don't need to worry about the limiter coming in. I haven't hit 6.5k but was always hitting the previous limit in second. (I do have 3.77 diff though)

Roy.

[SILICONE KID]

When you send your Tornado chip to him you don`t get the same one back ,As you said they cost pennys but you are paying for his services and years of experience so saving money buying a used chip makes no difference .When i had the 4l (best guess map) it ran perfect and i managed to get 29mpg. The problem came when i had the 5l engine rebuild ,the fueling is not perfect for the engine so i decided to go down the Megasquirt route. I know its expensive but i think its the way to go .

[K4TRV]

roysum said:

K4TRV said:

Chimjunkie said:

I would say the Tornado chip route is best done if doing serious modifications to engine. Cant see the value if the engine is near standard.

+2

Twaddle IMHO, just increased my max revs from app 5.5k to 6.5k.

I suggest you "read" the post!!

"we" said "...if the engine is near standard" (You did say yours was modified!!! so don't say twaddle!!))

If you simply increase the rev limiter with a std engine you are not going to gain anything other than an early re-build. On std engine there is nothing extra after 5.8K onwards.

All IMVHO also!!

Edited by K4TRV on Wednesday 16th June 23:04