450 engine upgrades

[Somebody]

Hi all,

I'm new here so hello to everyone...

I have a question regarding upgrading the 450 engine, and although I've trawled through previous threads I haven't found the answer I'm looking for in simple terms I can understand (probably because I'm a bit simple). Taking a bog standard, well maintained 450 with approxiamtely 60k on the clock (everything working efficiently to start with), and a budget of around 2K, what are the best modifications to carry out to increase engine torque/power/efficiency, and what sort of torque/bhp gains might be seen ?

Thanks in advance,

Richard

[dbv8]

[Podie]

V8D cam and some ACT induction mods I would have thought.

[450Nick]

1st step:

ACT induction kit, superflare 45mm trumpets, 45mm ported inlet manifold, 72mm enlarged throttle body.

2nd step:

V8D cam, fettling of the heads to match the new shiney inlet system

3rd step:

ACT sports manifolds & y-piece, replace the ECU (Emerald or similar)

4th step:

Give SC-Power a call.

[spend]

A mappable ECU & ignition drastically affects the cam you can run, so why would you replace the cam before the ECU?

[450Nick]

spend said:

A mappable ECU & ignition drastically affects the cam you can run, so why would you replace the cam before the ECU?

Well I suppose I was going on the summation that you'd end up with a charger so you go with a mild cam such as an MC1 so it doesn't really need mappable ignition. If you're going for something hotter and staying NA then yeah I'd do the ECU first. Its a pain in the arse to do and costs a fair bit though so its usually left late in the tuning process I think!

[Grey Ghost]

spend said:

A mappable ECU & ignition drastically affects the cam you can run, so why would you replace the cam before the ECU?

Spend,

Given that I would like to do options 1 and 2 next year, i.e.

ACT induction kit, superflare 45mm trumpets, 45mm ported inlet manifold, 72mm enlarged throttle body,
V8D cam, polished heads etc.

I would not be looking for a much "wilder" cam than the standard one in my 450 (The Stealth one gets good write-ups here) would I be better off budgeting to get a mappable ECU done at the same time and also gain a bit more BHP, torque and driveability to boot?

Outright power is not my thing but a decent "smack in the back" mid range really does appeal

[Alexdaredevilz]

If it were me id would be working on the car my self so

£700 odd for head work

£500 cam kit

£300 on act induction stuff

And emerald or mega squirt

Cut out both cats and re-weld

Should see 300 odd bhp and torque increase though out

Thats just the way id personally tune it so please don't says what's wrong or right this is my personal opinion

Alex

[chimaera1855]

oh my god what am i doing???should i say sorry first for asking this.mhmh ok can those mods be done to a 4 litres as well???or 45mm a bit too big????and what is the ebst cam for mid and high torque???man tks in advances merci merci beaucoup!!

450Nick said:

1st step:

ACT induction kit, superflare 45mm trumpets, 45mm ported inlet manifold, 72mm enlarged throttle body.

2nd step:

V8D cam, fettling of the heads to match the new shiney inlet system

3rd step:

ACT sports manifolds & y-piece, replace the ECU (Emerald or similar)

4th step:

Give SC-Power a call.

Edited by chimaera1855 on Wednesday 3rd November 18:38

[slideways]

chimaera1855 said:

oh my god what am i doing???should i say sorry first for asking this.mhmh ok can those mods be dont to a 4 litres as well???or 45mm a bit too big????and what is the ebst cam for mid and high torque???man tks in advances merci merci beaucoup!!

450Nick said:

1st step:

ACT induction kit, superflare 45mm trumpets, 45mm ported inlet manifold, 72mm enlarged throttle body.

2nd step:

V8D cam, fettling of the heads to match the new shiney inlet system

3rd step:

ACT sports manifolds & y-piece, replace the ECU (Emerald or similar)

4th step:


Give SC-Power a call.

any thing you do to the top end on the larger engines can be done to the 4.0 except the really high lift cams, I.E you need pocketed pistons

[chimaera1855]

tks do u know where and how much i can get the 72mm enlarged throttle body????tks

slideways said:

chimaera1855 said:

oh my god what am i doing???should i say sorry first for asking this.mhmh ok can those mods be dont to a 4 litres as well???or 45mm a bit too big????and what is the ebst cam for mid and high torque???man tks in advances merci merci beaucoup!!

450Nick said:

1st step:

ACT induction kit, superflare 45mm trumpets, 45mm ported inlet manifold, 72mm enlarged throttle body.

2nd step:

V8D cam, fettling of the heads to match the new shiney inlet system

3rd step:

ACT sports manifolds & y-piece, replace the ECU (Emerald or similar)

4th step:


Give SC-Power a call.

any thing you do to the top end on the larger engines can be done to the 4.0 except the really high lift cams, I.E you need pocketed pistons

[slideways]

chimaera1855 said:

tks do u know where and how much i can get the 72mm enlarged throttle body????tks

slideways said:

chimaera1855 said:

oh my god what am i doing???should i say sorry first for asking this.mhmh ok can those mods be dont to a 4 litres as well???or 45mm a bit too big????and what is the ebst cam for mid and high torque???man tks in advances merci merci beaucoup!!

450Nick said:

1st step:

ACT induction kit, superflare 45mm trumpets, 45mm ported inlet manifold, 72mm enlarged throttle body.

2nd step:

V8D cam, fettling of the heads to match the new shiney inlet system

3rd step:

ACT sports manifolds & y-piece, replace the ECU (Emerald or similar)

4th step:


Give SC-Power a call.

any thing you do to the top end on the larger engines can be done to the 4.0 except the really high lift cams, I.E you need pocketed pistons

http://www.v8developments.co.uk/

[v8 racing]

Heads are where your biggest benefit are going to come from, along with 45mm inlet manifold and 45mm trumpet base, so including new head bolts and gaskets etc... as i diy job that will come to £1350 in parts, if a garage is fitting it for you budget for around £500 labour, if you are doing it yourself, the remaining £650 i would go for a megasquirt and cam kit, cam kit at £350 and megasquirt at around £500 but you will get back around £200 for your ecu dizzy and airflow meter on ebay.

[Somebody]

Very interesting guys... and very informative... This begs the question, the 450 being basically the RR 4.6, what exactly did TVR do to raise the power from 225 (as qouted by LR), to 285 bhp, thats a 60 bhp increase !! OK, before you all jump down my throat I know the 285 bhp was a fantasy figure, or at least one produced on a test bed with who knows what differences to the lump that ended up in the car... But TVR must have upgraded the engine in some fashion.. What was it ? modified heads/bigger valves ? cam ? Anybody know ??? (obviously different exhaust manifolding..)

[450Nick]

After talking to Dom at TVR Power, I was told that the 4.6 actually came from TVR. Dom and the boys designed it, and Rover liked it so much they used the idea for the RR. So the RR is actually a detuned TVR engine essentially. Differences are the cam and heads mainly I think..

[slideways]

450Nick said:

After talking to Dom at TVR Power, I was told that the 4.6 actually came from TVR. Dom and the boys designed it, and Rover liked it so much they used the idea for the RR. So the RR is actually a detuned TVR engine essentially. Differences are the cam and heads mainly I think..

well I never did! Every days a school day

[Somebody]

Hmm, even more interesting.. If one were to assume that TVR figures were for example actual plus 10%, then the quoted 285bhp for the 450 would in reality (in a top notch motor) be more like 260bhp.. which is then only another 35bhp more than the RR lump. I would have thought 35bhp was very easily achievable with non RR standard heads and cam... Peter Burgess Econotune heads for my factory MGBGTV8 are quoted at giving an extra 30+ bhp throughout the rev range, with the standard cam... If heads, cam, and the above detailed induction mods are the simplest/most cost effective first route to upping the 450's torque and bhp, I guess the next question is which heads are going to be (much) better (£ for £) than the TVR heads ?? How about the V8Dev stage III heads ?

[Meatball]

v8 racing said:

Heads are where your biggest benefit are going to come from, along with 45mm inlet manifold and 45mm trumpet base, so including new head bolts and gaskets etc... as i diy job that will come to £1350 in parts, if a garage is fitting it for you budget for around £500 labour, if you are doing it yourself, the remaining £650 i would go for a megasquirt and cam kit, cam kit at £350 and megasquirt at around £500 but you will get back around £200 for your ecu dizzy and airflow meter on ebay.

What Rob said,
With the above work and a few other bits and bobs mine made 288.5 bhp at the wheels.
Since then ive gone megasquirt so it should make a bit more.

[chimaera1855]

tks ROB i really do think u know this engine really really good.500 pounds only for Megasquirt????wow it is actually the first think i want to do to my car to make it run smoother and maybe get back some lost power.ECU is very important.no point changing others parts if u cant tune it later right?????do u guys sell or know where i can buy it????tks ROB

v8 racing said:

Heads are where your biggest benefit are going to come from, along with 45mm inlet manifold and 45mm trumpet base, so including new head bolts and gaskets etc... as i diy job that will come to £1350 in parts, if a garage is fitting it for you budget for around £500 labour, if you are doing it yourself, the remaining £650 i would go for a megasquirt and cam kit, cam kit at £350 and megasquirt at around £500 but you will get back around £200 for your ecu dizzy and airflow meter on ebay.

[Somebody]

Thanks for all the replies guys, thrown alot of light on the subject for me !!! One last question, with all the induction mods carried out, what would you recommend as a good head/cam combination ? The V8D cam has been mentioned a few times, would there stage three heads be a good choice ? Would be looking to keep a good smooth torque curve, and not have to fit pocketed pistons.. around the 280-290 bhp figure sounds like a grin fixing number...

Thanks again, you're a great bunch of people !!

Edited by Somebody on Thursday 4th November 09:29

Edited by Somebody on Thursday 4th November 09:52