Discussion
Hi Guys
Wondering if anyone can help, I'm going to be taking my 450 out on the track next year and maybe a hillclimb or two and have seen in the Steve Heath bible that a baffled sump used to be available, does anyone know if you can still get hold of these and if so from where. The car is due a service and minor fettle in feb and it would make sense to fit one then if I'm going too, I know I'm probably being over cautious but after reading what happened to the "EVO" Griffith I'd rather spend a few hundred now and not £5k later.
Cheers
James
Wondering if anyone can help, I'm going to be taking my 450 out on the track next year and maybe a hillclimb or two and have seen in the Steve Heath bible that a baffled sump used to be available, does anyone know if you can still get hold of these and if so from where. The car is due a service and minor fettle in feb and it would make sense to fit one then if I'm going too, I know I'm probably being over cautious but after reading what happened to the "EVO" Griffith I'd rather spend a few hundred now and not £5k later.
Cheers
James
I got mine from John Eales http://www.rover-v8.com/
Can't just see them on his website, but give the chap a call.
Regards
Iain
Can't just see them on his website, but give the chap a call.
Regards
Iain
Worth looking at accusump. Oil starvation can be an issue with the RV8 on the track
oil accumulators
oil accumulators
Edited by blueg33 on Friday 17th December 10:50
I used to suffer from complete oil pressure loss on track days, (with triple 8's fitted), when the engine was really hot and after heavy braking followed by sharp bends.
Modded the sump myself, not as good as a JE sump of course, fitted an oil cooler and changed oil, (Royal Purple 20/50).
This combination, probably the oil cooler the most, totally illiminated oil pressure loss.
Modded the sump myself, not as good as a JE sump of course, fitted an oil cooler and changed oil, (Royal Purple 20/50).
This combination, probably the oil cooler the most, totally illiminated oil pressure loss.
Interesting subject, I've done about 30 track days in my 450 and never had any problems, even with R888's, no oil pressure loss, no loud tappets, no problems (ok, I'm no Jensen Button but I'm not slow...) I decided to do a rebuild (just for the power) and had Rob R build me a top spec engine. I asked him about the baffled sump and we tried to get the John E sump but he didn't have any. Rob said my old engine had no signs of unusual wear.
I guess the question is, if oil pressure reads fine, how else would you know (until it's too late)?
Oil cooler is on my list...
I guess the question is, if oil pressure reads fine, how else would you know (until it's too late)?
Oil cooler is on my list...
Overhere said:
Interesting subject, I've done about 30 track days in my 450 and never had any problems, even with R888's, no oil pressure loss, no loud tappets, no problems (ok, I'm no Jensen Button but I'm not slow...) I decided to do a rebuild (just for the power) and had Rob R build me a top spec engine. I asked him about the baffled sump and we tried to get the John E sump but he didn't have any. Rob said my old engine had no signs of unusual wear.
I guess the question is, if oil pressure reads fine, how else would you know (until it's too late)?
Oil cooler is on my list...
I have an oil cooler for sale I guess the question is, if oil pressure reads fine, how else would you know (until it's too late)?
Oil cooler is on my list...
Oh, and I'll have to admit, I probably don't keep a very close eye on the guage, at the times it's most likely to drop I'm sure it'd be unlikely I'd be thinking about glancing down. So my realy questions is more like, how necessary is it, which I guess is like asking how important is it to use a condom... ok maybe not a good analogy
Overhere said:
Oh, and I'll have to admit, I probably don't keep a very close eye on the guage, at the times it's most likely to drop I'm sure it'd be unlikely I'd be thinking about glancing down. So my realy questions is more like, how necessary is it, which I guess is like asking how important is it to use a condom... ok maybe not a good analogy
The gauge is for analysis, it's the warning light that triggers alarm and that should easily catch your field of vision? The switches come in various versions that alert at different pressures, I'd recommend fitting the highest one possible for greatest safety.I'd be surprised if anyone was driving hard and at the same time studying the pressure gauge at times when surge is experienced
Oil coolers are 10 a penny BTW, it's the take offs, pipework and stats that are expensive. Certainly pay for themselves in making your oil last longer IMHO, providing you use the oils that don't look black as soon as they are poured in
Agree with spend.
I only started to look at my gauge after wadsapple had months of "grief" losing pressure in his 5.2.
A drop in pressure always occured on airfield days where you can drive to the limit.
Late braking inducing weight transfer followed by fast tight turns on triple 8's is more then the standard system can cope with, that's why the Tuscan Challange cars with RV8's dry sump them!
Now fitted a mechanical pressure/temp gauge for more accuracy.
I only started to look at my gauge after wadsapple had months of "grief" losing pressure in his 5.2.
A drop in pressure always occured on airfield days where you can drive to the limit.
Late braking inducing weight transfer followed by fast tight turns on triple 8's is more then the standard system can cope with, that's why the Tuscan Challange cars with RV8's dry sump them!
Now fitted a mechanical pressure/temp gauge for more accuracy.
Wow, great info guys, Thanks. I'll need to start sorting this out, I just paid a shedload for this new engine and a schedule of track days to put together, so now is the time. What about the kit Neil sells at TVR Car Parts, £245, is it good, and price? I guess it mounts in front of the rad?
Thanks again
Thanks again
I have both a John Eales baffled sump and an oil cooler with the appropriate instrumentation and data logging on my supercharged Wedge ( 540+bhp). The oil cooler was already there so I used it.
The car runs on super soft 12 in wide slicks and I have measured close to 2G on some corners. I have never had oil surge or lost oil pressure. I have discussed going dry sump with John but he reckons that I don't need it. I've had fuel surge caused by the fuel swirl tank not holding enough fuel on long corners but not oil surge.
As for oil temp... The highest I have ever seen is 120 and that was when I lost a fan belt and the cooling went. To be honest it typically stays around the 80 mark. The important thing about oil coolers is a thermostat so that the cooler is only effective when it is warm. The stat I have only works at 90C so the cooler is actually doing very little.
The issue I have with oil coolers is that they do restrict the air flowing through the water rad and this is marginal with a Griff/Chim on a track. BTW I normally remove the number plate on track when I had my Griffs. So while the oil may be kept cooler, it isn't for free. The hot air goes straight onto the water rad instead of cold air so that rad's performance is reduced. On the Wedge I have the cooler in the wing with a separate air feed. Not really possible on a road car though.
The best advice I can give is to get the baffled sump and change the oil after each track day. Fit an oil cooler but I am not convinced it is worth the money it costs to do so.
The car runs on super soft 12 in wide slicks and I have measured close to 2G on some corners. I have never had oil surge or lost oil pressure. I have discussed going dry sump with John but he reckons that I don't need it. I've had fuel surge caused by the fuel swirl tank not holding enough fuel on long corners but not oil surge.
As for oil temp... The highest I have ever seen is 120 and that was when I lost a fan belt and the cooling went. To be honest it typically stays around the 80 mark. The important thing about oil coolers is a thermostat so that the cooler is only effective when it is warm. The stat I have only works at 90C so the cooler is actually doing very little.
The issue I have with oil coolers is that they do restrict the air flowing through the water rad and this is marginal with a Griff/Chim on a track. BTW I normally remove the number plate on track when I had my Griffs. So while the oil may be kept cooler, it isn't for free. The hot air goes straight onto the water rad instead of cold air so that rad's performance is reduced. On the Wedge I have the cooler in the wing with a separate air feed. Not really possible on a road car though.
The best advice I can give is to get the baffled sump and change the oil after each track day. Fit an oil cooler but I am not convinced it is worth the money it costs to do so.
Hey SHPUB, this is really hi-jacking this thread, but I'm interested in your comment on the fuel problem, I tell you this is a bugger for me, long left corners and I get fuel starvation on a tank with anything less than HALF FULL! In fact on Pouhon at Spa I was getting cut-out at above half tank! What's this all about? Is it the petrol tank that need better baffling or you mentioned a fuel swirl tank, does a Chim have this?
Chim's dont have a fuel surge tank, no. The OEM tank does have some baffelling and a "sump" area around the outlet but its not brilliant. I ended up having a ~3l swirl tank made by John Reid for the racer, twin LP pumps in and twin HP pumps out that said it was all a bit of an over reaction to a fuel pump failure.
Theres little room on a standard car to fit a swirlpot between the tank and the pump, however if you're willing to sacrifice some boot space and are willing to do a bit of plumbing a LP pump and "small" swirl pump could be fitted with a bit of ingenuity
Regards
Iain
Theres little room on a standard car to fit a swirlpot between the tank and the pump, however if you're willing to sacrifice some boot space and are willing to do a bit of plumbing a LP pump and "small" swirl pump could be fitted with a bit of ingenuity
Regards
Iain
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