New Chimera owner questions...

[coedypaen-matt]

Hey Guys, I just bought a '98 450 Chim, it seems to have been well loved, but there are a few little niggles... The engine is rather lumpy intermittently, floating between just 500 rpm and then hunting sometimes until 2000, and back and up and so on.

It does have a high lift cam, and also Torque flow plenum/ecu etc so maybe it is just a result of this?. I have had the stepper off for a quick clean, and although it was a little dirty, cleaning has had no effect. Also speed sensor may need adjusting on the rear axle as slow speeds (below 25) not really registering very well, so perhaps also this?

I guess/hope! this is also why fuel economy seems fairly dire, 110 miles on my first tank, and I honestly wasn't flat out everywhere, it was raining.

I am taking it to Forza west in Chepstow for a few things on Monday, this being one, but would appreciate any ideas and help from you guys.

Thanks, Matt

Edited by coedypaen-matt on Thursday 20th January 21:58

[SILICONE KID]

Torque flow, get rid !blitzracing will be here very soon to explain.

Edited by SILICONE KID on Thursday 20th January 22:28

[coedypaen-matt]

I eagerly await!

[Golflion]

coedypaen-matt said:

I eagerly await!

Interesting reading in this post
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Solved&mid=0

And this one
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[pwd95]

This is an interesting read also.....
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Mr MoJo]

Hiya Matt

Thought we'd be seeing you here in time

Must come up and see you soon. Theres been alot of debate on here re the TF system, some fantastic increases
in power on some cars and nothing on others. It seems its pretty hit and miss. I looked into it but ended up going the Mark Adams route and have been more than happy so far, just needs setting up properly with Mark on a RR now.

You're in safe hands with Stu in
Chepstow, he's looked after mine since I
bought it. Say hello when you see him. In fact give me a shout on Monday, I'm off work, would be good to have a look over the new toy.

Do you know if the cam was done before or after the TF conversion ? If it's had the high lift cam after the Torque
Flow AFM, plenum and chip maybe it needs a re map although it was probably a 'best guess' map in there when the TF kit was installed. I've got Eann Whalleys number (Torque Flow) if
you haven't already got it.

eta, top lurking by the way !! 5 posts in 50 months, thats about to change

Edited by Mr MoJo on Saturday 22 January 23:49

[coedypaen-matt]

Si Boy!

Not sure about the order of the mods. But hey with a car like this its bound to be a good few months to get it all how I want it.

It just cracks me up trying to drive it about in this weather. It is some what different to the 1.1l clio I've been tooling about in since I did the building work!

Send me your mobie I've lost my phone since last time I saw you and have tons of numbers missing now. 07525 353732 if you haven't got it.

If Stu finishes on monday I'll pop over

[Mr MoJo]

Just texted you my number mate

[blitzracing]

Ive just pulled a car to bits that was running very rich (to the point the plugs are completely carboned up and it would not run) fitted with a Torqueflow. It had been also fitted with a variable fuel pressure regulator that had the vacumme pipe removed to the fuel pressure was stuck at maximum all the time (This is a real NO NO), and because the idle / stepper obviously had not been working correctly, someone had fitted a 1/2 " plumbing isolating valve to the stepper air feed, so the airflow could be controlled manually. I was pretty horrified, so the Torqueflow is going in the bin to start with, Ill correct the ECU chipping, and get the fuel pressure as it should be, then the idle control should start to work again. Buts as a picture is worth a thousand words, this is the engineering inside a Torqueflow, please feel free to pass you own judgement.

[blitzracing]

[spend]

blitzracing said:

..please feel free to pass you own judgement.

You need more tuition before I let you use a blow torch again

[roysum]

That's appauling!

Edited by roysum on Sunday 6th February 21:00

[macdeb]

For the record. My Torqueflow worked very well thanks as did a lot of other cars I know of. My experience, My view.

[roysum]

macdeb said:

For the record. My Torqueflow worked very well thanks as did a lot of other cars I know of. My experience, My view.

There's a lot of past tence in that statement

[blitzracing]

macdeb said:

For the record. My Torqueflow worked very well thanks as did a lot of other cars I know of. My experience, My view.

I’m sure there is a bit of Emperors new clothes here sometimes, would you admit that a £700 upgrade did not really work? (especially to the wife ). Firstly if you fit a larger throttle plate, it will let in more air for any given pedal movement, so the car will seem quicker off the mark, although it wont produce any more peak BHP unless the plenum inlet was providing a restriction in the first place, so you need to be pushing big BHP numbers already to see any gain. The TF its self can be tweaked to alter the fuelling (look at all those lovely variable resistors to play with) and you can push the AFM output far enough to over ride the ECU's ability to keep the mixture emission compliant (ie make it run richer than 14:35:1), and the engines certainly appear to run a bit better a BIT richer, and in some cases it will reduce the shunting. However as an "end user" you would not know if the engine was being over fuelled (within reason), until in this case the car grinds to a stop with plugs full of soot. Moderate over fuelling can give an engine a bit of a "race car" feel, as the engine is down on power when its over rich, but then develops the correct horsepower when the mixture corrects at a different point in the power band, so you get a power surge that was not there before. Woopee doo.

It may be possible to get a TF to fuel correctly with enough twiddling of the 4 pot’s but it must be a complete nightmare to set up with so many variables, including a different ECU chip, and variable fuel pressure as well. I certainly would not attempt it with road testing unless I was blessed with eternal life and had nothing better to do.

[macdeb]

Please don't get me wrong and I know there are a lot of you that know a LOT more than I could ever take in [it fries my brain a bit to be honest] and I can only read the posts with utter respect and find them very informative and makes a very interesting read on here which is more the exception nowadays. But there are a few that just jump on the bandwagon to sound good quoting hearsay which makes for an unbalanced view. Just that after the fitting of my 'TF' the car did 'feel' better and some time after was on a dyno and the operator commented it was one of the best fuelled 450's he'd seen [286 bhp/318 tor and was doing RV8 TVR's all weekend] with smooth power and torque graphs. Just adding a 'good' experience that I had.

[roysum]

macdeb]Please don't get me wrong and I know there are a lot of you that know a LOT more than I could ever take in [it fries my brain a bit to be honest said:

and I can only read the posts with utter respect and find them very informative and makes a very interesting read on here which is more the exception nowadays. But there are a few that just jump on the bandwagon to sound good quoting hearsay which makes for an unbalanced view. Just that after the fitting of my 'TF' the car did 'feel' better and some time after was on a dyno and the operator commented it was one of the best fuelled 450's he'd seen [286 bhp/318 tor and was doing RV8 TVR's all weekend] with smooth power and torque graphs. Just adding a 'good' experience that I had.

Hi Mac, I know someone else (Newbury TVR, now out of the fold) was very pleased with his TF and had very good dyno figures too. I was only commenting on the pictures of the control unit. Reminds me of my attempts with a Phillips electronics engineering kit I had for Christmas in about 1969. TF costs a fair bit of money, I wouldn't be happy with that standard of work. Perhaps the one in the picture was a prototype ?

Roy.

[Mr MoJo]

I also know of someone who fitted the TF kit and got fantastic (300+ bhp from an otherwise STD 500) figures at the 2009 Growl. As far as I know it's still working perfectly. However I am kind of relieved having read a fair few horror stories and seen how the OPs car is running that I had a last minute hesitation and went the MA route last year. Currently in the process of arranging the final RR set up with Mr Adams as we speak. Watch this space.
Matt (OP) now has my original afm to fit. Hopefully after a bit of tweaking here and there the car will be running better. Maybe mapping issues though I'd suspect if the car is running a TF chip too.
I'm sure Matt wouldn't mind a pm from you Blitz if you think you could help

[blitzracing]

There is not such thing as a TF chip, its just a different TVR map he uses, as far as I know TF dont have the ability to do bespoke remaps. After all you would not P*ss about with variable resistors if you could just do a remap to compensate for the different charateristics of the TF tube. As for peak power, fair enough, if you get the mixture spot on under full load, and have a big open airway you will get good BHP, but that does not mean its acurately set up for the whole range of airflow, and I suspect the reason for the current sooted plugs. As for "if this was a prototype", this was not "Meatballs" one that was, but a more recent one, and apart from the extra pots, the soldering and general contruction was much the same as the prototype. I will put this unit on the bench, and plot its respose against a stock AFM, and the difference will show where its the fueling has to be tweeked in other areas, like fuel pressure or trying different chips until it works.

[Argent]

blitzracing said:

Ive just pulled a car to bits that was running very rich (to the point the plugs are completely carboned up and it would not run) fitted with a Torqueflow. It had been also fitted with a variable fuel pressure regulator that had the vacumme pipe removed to the fuel pressure was stuck at maximum all the time (This is a real NO NO), and because the idle / stepper obviously had not been working correctly, someone had fitted a 1/2 " plumbing isolating valve to the stepper air feed, so the airflow could be controlled manually. I was pretty horrified, so the Torqueflow is going in the bin to start with, Ill correct the ECU chipping, and get the fuel pressure as it should be, then the idle control should start to work again. Buts as a picture is worth a thousand words, this is the engineering inside a Torqueflow, please feel free to pass you own judgement.

Having worked in the electronics industry in the dim and distant past.....that is appalling!

A.