Spark plugs

[ChimpofDarkness]

Ribol said:

Pupp said:

You know, the ironic thing is many of the NOS and forced induction guys in the jap tuning world are advocating wholesale junking of iridium projected nose plugs in favour of, yep you guessed it, good old B7ECS NGKs on grounds of durability and robustness in application.

For reasons explained to me by a Champion techie bloke years ago, see above.

I think the real irony here is before the above two statements I had already said:

"Think about how much stop start driving & idling you do in the real world these days, a shrouded plug in a 7 heat range may be ideal for the race track or in a forced induction application but it can't be ideal in a road car surely?"

A internal combustion engine with forced induction has very different requirements to our naturally aspirated engines.

All my comments about moving to a projected electrode 6 plug relate to my normally aspirated engine used on the road.

I have no doubt if I ever fit a blower I would be looking to go back to the NGK B7ECS.

Until then I'll stick with a plug that seems more suited to my naturally aspirated application.

If you prefer not to take my advise that's fine, however I would encourage you to ask Rob Robertson what plug he recommends.

I'll think you'll find he will say NGK BPR6ES for a naturally aspirated RV8.

I think we will all agree, Rob knows what he's talking about.

[SILICONEKID340HP]

ChimpofDarkness said:

Ribol said:

Pupp said:

You know, the ironic thing is many of the NOS and forced induction guys in the jap tuning world are advocating wholesale junking of iridium projected nose plugs in favour of, yep you guessed it, good old B7ECS NGKs on grounds of durability and robustness in application.

For reasons explained to me by a Champion techie bloke years ago, see above.

I think the real irony here is before the above two statements I had already said:

"Think about how much stop start driving & idling you do in the real world these days, a shrouded plug in a 7 heat range may be ideal for the race track or in a forced induction application but it can't be ideal in a road car surely?"

A internal combustion engine with forced induction has very different requirements to our naturally aspirated engines.

All my comments about moving to a projected electrode 6 plug relate to my normally aspirated engine used on the road.

I have no doubt if I ever fit a blower I would be looking to go back to the NGK B7ECS.

Until then I'll stick with a plug that seems more suited to my naturally aspirated application.

If you prefer not to take my advise that's fine, however I would encourage you to ask Rob Robertson what plug he recommends.

I'll think you'll find he will say NGK BPR6ES for a naturally aspirated RV8.

I think we will all agree, Rob knows what he's talking about.

Rob adviced me to go for NGK BPR6ES ,been reading on some of websites ,it does mention you can get detonation and even a damaged engine if you have high compression or the timing set very advanced .I have crazy advance setting on cruise..

[Ribol]

ChimpofDarkness said:

Until then I'll stick with a plug that seems more suited to my naturally aspirated application.

Good idea.

[Ribol]

SILICONEKID340HP said:

Rob adviced me to go for NGK BPR6ES

Good idea.

[SILICONEKID340HP]

Ribol said:

SILICONEKID340HP said:

Rob adviced me to go for NGK BPR6ES

Good idea.

So i am down to the BPR6ES or BPR7ES it`s my choice ..Told me i could go for eather..

Which one ?

[Ribol]

SILICONEKID340HP said:

So i am down to the BPR6ES or BPR7ES it`s my choice ..Told me i could go for eather..

Which one ?

Daz meet Dave, Dave meet Daz

[ChimpofDarkness]

SILICONEKID340HP said:

Ribol said:

SILICONEKID340HP said:

Rob adviced me to go for NGK BPR6ES

Good idea.

So i am down to the BPR6ES or BPR7ES it`s my choice ..Told me i could go for eather..

Which one ?

As Simon said earlier, NGK are very high quality plugs with a pretty broad heat range.

I guess the answer to your question is either a 6 or 7 will probably be fine Daz.

Personally I think the slightly hotter 6 is better for everyday driving on the road, but by all means use a 7 if you spend more time on the motorway or driving enthusiastically.

Your engine is in a higher state of tune than most Daz, so perhaps (depending on your driving style) a 7 would be the better plug.

Whichever you go for, be it a 6 or 7, I still say a projected electrode is the way forward.

Perhaps the answer for you is to try a set of BPR6ES for a few thousand miles and then try a set of BPR7ES.

Then inspect the plugs & see how the colour of the two heat ranges compares and go with the ones that look better.

In my fairly standard 4.0 litre the 6 heat range seems to give the better colour, but you may find the opposite in your tuned 5.0 litre Daz.

Good luck with it & let us now how you get on.

Best regards, Dave.

[Simon says]

Daz! we discussed this a while ago and I advised you to fit BPR7E (better than BPR7ES as they have split electrode) plugs as I remember I would fit 7's (colder plug) in your car purely because of the state of tune higher compression etc your st loads of advance at cruise don't come into it because soon as you put your clog down that advance is wound back for load 6's may be fine for your eng but I can assure you you will have no problem with the safer 7's if my low spec RV8 runs fine on 7's then you have your answer cooler is better as long as they don't foul IMO .

[ChimpofDarkness]

Simon says said:

Daz! we discussed this a while ago and I advised you to fit BPR7E (better than BPR7ES as they have split electrode) plugs as I remember I would fit 7's (colder plug) in your car purely because of the state of tune higher compression etc your st loads of advance at cruise don't come into it because soon as you put your clog down that advance is wound back for load 6's may be fine for your eng but I can assure you you will have no problem with the safer 7's if my low spec RV8 runs fine on 7's then you have your answer cooler is better as long as they don't foul IMO .

Seems logical, if the Daz machine has a raised compression over standard then a BPR7E would indeed be the best bet.





Listen to Simon.

Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Friday 13th July 12:26

[SILICONEKID340HP]

Thanks .after sending a question to NGK i got a call today from some spark plug wizard ,he did mention he had spoken to two other guys on this Spark plug thread.

His advice was to stay with the heat range 7 because of a few things ,advance etc,camas CR etc

He then said TVR did it for a reason ,the B7ECS are a very old race plug but at the same time he could not guarantee the projected tips but Range Rover ,MGRV8 etc use BPR7ES. Something to do with vibration

Then he explaind if you go from the B7ECS to one with a projected tip it will change your "timing" because ot he position of the tip.

The best Resistive plug to stop the timing issues is BR7ES (non projected) ,same as the BPR7ES but the tip is set in to the plug more .. so very close to the B7ECS but without the fancy tip.

Think mine is standard compression.

http://spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/products/detail...

Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Friday 13th July 15:24

[Simon says]

SILICONEKID340HP said:

Thank .after sending a question to NGK i got a call today from some spark plug wizard ,he did mention he has spoken to two other guys on this Spark plug thread.

His advice was to stay with the heat range 7 because of a few things ,advance etc,camas CR etc

He then said TVR did it for a reason ,the B7ECS are a very old race plug but at the same time he could not garantee the projected tips but Range Rover ,MGRV8 etc use BPR7ES. Something to do with vibration

Then he explaind if you go from the B7ECS to one with a projected tip it will change your timing .!

The best Resistive plug to stop the timing issues is BR7ES (non projected) ,same as the BPR7ES but the tip is set in to the plug more .. so very close to the B7ECS but without the fancy tip.

Think mine is standard compression.

Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Friday 13th July 15:13

Daz you've drove me to it I just couldn't take it any more.

[SILICONEKID340HP]

Just saying his advice was to go for BR7ES

B7ECS

Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Friday 13th July 16:09

[Simon says]

Shocking pic

[SILICONEKID340HP]

Just removed the spark Plugs and now ready to fit the NGK BPR6ES ..

What does this tell me ?

Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Tuesday 17th July 19:26

[Simon says]

SILICONEKID340HP said:

Just removed the spark Plugs and now ready to fit the NGK BPR6ES ..

What does this tell me ?

Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Tuesday 17th July 19:26

That its not raining in Nottingham

[SILICONEKID340HP]

Is that very rich or normal ,there are white bits on the electrode and tip.

[ChimpofDarkness]

The white flakes are created by ether particles clashing with the anamorphic inductive plasma field present in the combustion chamber.

The black parts are simply a build up of a mixture of amorphous carbon and lonsdaleite.

On the face of it neither should be considered an issue.

However recent research by NGK has proved the combination of such white flakes with amorphous/other forms of carbon can cause a high frequency reluctive misfire.

This misfire is so slight it can only be detected by a sonic mectrograph so it's almost impossible to isolate without running your standard exo-sonar test.

To be honest it's a tricky one Daz.......

But if I had to take a punt, I would say you are running a fraction rich.

Whatever you do don't fit my Iridium plugs, or the engine is certain to grenade

[carsy]

Difficult to see Daz but i would guess slightly rich also. You have probably done right going with the BPR6ES. I have just put these in mine.

[Pupp]

It tells me you need to push the pedal a bit more, the plugs aren't getting hot enough to self-clean!

Looks fine mate for a car in normal road use... plug reading with modern fuel and oil is not actually that easy but I wouldn't worry if all like that. Maybe pop one out right after a good thrape and compare just for interest sake

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

I've been running BPR6ES in my 4.0 Tasmin Racer with an Emerald ECU and LR coil-packs for the past 3 years without a problem. The engine runs at about 90oC - 105oC. Plus I used the same plugs 2 seasons. so about 600 miles of full on abuse. I've also used extenders, as I'm using Griff headers, to get the Rv8 to fit in a Series 1 FHC.