Rear discs & pads ?
Discussion
Ok going to replace the rear discs and pads as there a little low and discs seen better days but just wanted to check first
1) just order the TVR listed ones ? (As seen on eBay listed for chimaera )Or are they off another car and I can search for them as might be cheaper or get better brand quality for same price as no TVR tax lol... ? I’ve seen that they may be Ford Sierra but would need to know exact year model to order correct items
2) fitting ,anything to look out for ? Or simple to replace no wind back tool needed etc
Thanks !
1) just order the TVR listed ones ? (As seen on eBay listed for chimaera )Or are they off another car and I can search for them as might be cheaper or get better brand quality for same price as no TVR tax lol... ? I’ve seen that they may be Ford Sierra but would need to know exact year model to order correct items
2) fitting ,anything to look out for ? Or simple to replace no wind back tool needed etc
Thanks !
Those reference things are often wrong. Even with 'normal' cars. Eurocarparts sold me brake parts for a Mk 2 Suzuki Swift despite my putting in the registration of my 2011 Mk 3, a different size.
If it's a 400 pre 1996, the discs are smaller than after the facelift.
Early models have Sierra 1.6 discs (240mm at the front, 254 mm at the rear, solid) whereas the 500s and all models after 1996 had larger 260 mm discs up front and 273 mm (vented) at the rear (usually Sierra XR4i / Escort Cosworth).
This is presuming a car is still on standard brakes of course!
Old thread but lots of information here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=31...
If it's a 400 pre 1996, the discs are smaller than after the facelift.
Early models have Sierra 1.6 discs (240mm at the front, 254 mm at the rear, solid) whereas the 500s and all models after 1996 had larger 260 mm discs up front and 273 mm (vented) at the rear (usually Sierra XR4i / Escort Cosworth).
This is presuming a car is still on standard brakes of course!
Old thread but lots of information here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=31...
Edited by ianwayne on Friday 30th August 20:40
Mine is N reg 1996 MK1 (MK1 front, dash and rear wing door openers )
But it has vented rear discs in it !
Good job I checked as been looking at brands prices online but solid discs , need to start again and look for vented discs now !! I have a 4” angle grinder disc tool to act as the calliper wind back tool !!
But it has vented rear discs in it !
Good job I checked as been looking at brands prices online but solid discs , need to start again and look for vented discs now !! I have a 4” angle grinder disc tool to act as the calliper wind back tool !!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
I've been using Pagid rear pads on my Chimaera for years now, they're cost effective, have a good working life and always perform well.
Pagid part number T5006.
I've been using Pagid rear pads on my Chimaera for years now, they're cost effective, have a good working life and always perform well.
Pagid part number T5006.
My 96 500 used the following discs/pads. If yours are vented I'd imagine they'll be the same:
Discs: https://www.eurocarparts.com/search/104590428
Pads: https://www.eurocarparts.com/search/10159020A
Be sure to use a discount code for a good chunk off, current one is "SALE55"
Discs: https://www.eurocarparts.com/search/104590428
Pads: https://www.eurocarparts.com/search/10159020A
Be sure to use a discount code for a good chunk off, current one is "SALE55"
Those Brembo pads look good, I searched EBay for Euro Car Parts code 10159020A and it turns out you can buy theses pads from one of Euro Car Parts sister companies (Car Part Bargains) for just £15.50 a set.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-BREMBO-BRAKES-R...
Ignore the image in the above listing as it's for illustration purposed only.
I use Brembo pads on the front of my Chimaera (all be it in Brembo BMW E36 calipers) and they are excellent just as you would expect from Brembo, so I'll definitely consider them for my rear calipers in future.
Good find GR_TVR
Euro Car Parts: 10159020A
Brembo part no: P24018
Regarding rear discs, just watch the main Euro Car Parts site as it's selling the Pagid rear discs in singles for £41.99, the exact same disc from their sister company Car Part Bargains is the same £41.99 but this price is for a pair making them half the price.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pagid-EBD20013-Rear-Rig...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-BREMBO-BRAKES-R...
Ignore the image in the above listing as it's for illustration purposed only.
I use Brembo pads on the front of my Chimaera (all be it in Brembo BMW E36 calipers) and they are excellent just as you would expect from Brembo, so I'll definitely consider them for my rear calipers in future.
Good find GR_TVR
Euro Car Parts: 10159020A
Brembo part no: P24018
Regarding rear discs, just watch the main Euro Car Parts site as it's selling the Pagid rear discs in singles for £41.99, the exact same disc from their sister company Car Part Bargains is the same £41.99 but this price is for a pair making them half the price.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pagid-EBD20013-Rear-Rig...
900T-R said:
The rear pads are the same for both versions (253 mm solid or 273 mm vented discs). I use Ferodo DS2500 all round (FCP408H for the rears).
Blimey just checked and they're £100 - £120 a set... over £100 just for a set rear pads 
Does sticking Ferodo DS2500 pads on the rear really make that much difference on the road Eric? For the record years ago I did try them myself on the rear of my Chimaera that's used exclusively on the road and just found they made a lot more dust with only a marginal improvement in braking (if any).
If the OP is not doing lots of track days I'd recommend he fits Brembo part no P24018 as they are a quality road compound pad for just £15.50 a set, each time he changes his rear pads he can put the £100 saving towards this fantasticly effective and good value front brake upgrade.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I'll put money of a Chimaera with this brake upgrade using Brembo road pads stopping way better than a Chimaera with the standard brakes and fancy pants expensive track day pads, and the Chimaera with properly upgraded brakes will make a lot less dust too. If you want to upgrade brakes invest your money the hardware by fitting better calipers and bigger discs.
This is a way better approach that shelling out the best part £300 on ridiculously expensive track day pads and fitting them to the standard brake setup, after all the whole Brembo caliper 324mm big disk upgrade using quality Brembo pads would only cost £200 more and you've got it for good. A set of £300 track day pads are only ever going to turn to dust in 18,000 miles... and lots of dust too!
I put track day pads in the same bag as rose jointed suspension, fine for the track but there are way better options for the road, a good Brembo road pad in the Brembo brake upgrade and a set of Ben Lang's rubber bushed latest spec Tuscan 2 Bilsteins made my TVR so much faster of the road, the ride and handling from the Bilsteins is excellent, the brakes are much more powerful than standard but remain very low dust.
For just £1,500 I made my 23 year old Chimaera so much quicker in the real world, I guarantee the car is now night and day faster than when it was new without compromising ride quality or resorting to noisy dirty track day pads, and when I come to service my brake consumables I can buy a complete set of Brembo pads front and rear for just £42 in total!
I´ve just put my second set of rear pads on in nearly 44,000 miles. Fronts last much longer than that so in the long run, the price of a set of pads is not something I´m overly concerned with. Getting a known quantity that's available off the shelf rather than wait and see what the local motor factor stocks for manky old Escorts and Sierras is a concern. My time might not be expensive but it still costs. They're not as expensive over here anyway, less than 100 euro or I'd remembered the price 
You know my feelings about bolting big heavy discs to a lightweight car - one without ABS-based stability control to put additional work on them at that - that doesn't need them. On the road you'll never get that much temperature in them to warrant bolting 3-4 kg extra unsprung and rotating weight to each hub, and our cars were more noted for their lack of handling composure on country roads taken at speed than for inadequate brakes... But then, I never felt the belts and braces approach of engineering should apply to lightweight sports cars.
You know my feelings about bolting big heavy discs to a lightweight car - one without ABS-based stability control to put additional work on them at that - that doesn't need them. On the road you'll never get that much temperature in them to warrant bolting 3-4 kg extra unsprung and rotating weight to each hub, and our cars were more noted for their lack of handling composure on country roads taken at speed than for inadequate brakes... But then, I never felt the belts and braces approach of engineering should apply to lightweight sports cars.
ChimpOnGas said:
Those Brembo pads look good, I searched EBay for Euro Car Parts code 10159020A and it turns out you can buy theses pads from one of Euro Car Parts sister companies (Car Part Bargains) for just £15.50 a set.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-BREMBO-BRAKES-R...
Ignore the image in the above listing as it's for illustration purposed only.
I use Brembo pads on the front of my Chimaera (all be it in Brembo BMW E36 calipers) and they are excellent just as you would expect from Brembo, so I'll definitely consider them for my rear calipers in future.
Good find GR_TVR
Euro Car Parts: 10159020A
Brembo part no: P24018
Regarding rear discs, just watch the main Euro Car Parts site as it's selling the Pagid rear discs in singles for £41.99, the exact same disc from their sister company Car Part Bargains is the same £41.99 but this price is for a pair making them half the price.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pagid-EBD20013-Rear-Rig...
Using the promo code "SALE55" gives the same prices on Euro Car Parts as the eBay links https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-BREMBO-BRAKES-R...
Ignore the image in the above listing as it's for illustration purposed only.
I use Brembo pads on the front of my Chimaera (all be it in Brembo BMW E36 calipers) and they are excellent just as you would expect from Brembo, so I'll definitely consider them for my rear calipers in future.
Good find GR_TVR
Euro Car Parts: 10159020A
Brembo part no: P24018
Regarding rear discs, just watch the main Euro Car Parts site as it's selling the Pagid rear discs in singles for £41.99, the exact same disc from their sister company Car Part Bargains is the same £41.99 but this price is for a pair making them half the price.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pagid-EBD20013-Rear-Rig...
900T-R said:
I´ve just put my second set of rear pads on in nearly 44,000 miles. Fronts last much longer than that so in the long run, the price of a set of pads is not something I´m overly concerned with. Getting a known quantity that's available off the shelf rather than wait and see what the local motor factor stocks for manky old Escorts and Sierras is a concern. My time might not be expensive but it still costs. They're not as expensive over here anyway, less than 100 euro or I'd remembered the price
You know my feelings about bolting big heavy discs to a lightweight car - one without ABS-based stability control to put additional work on them at that - that doesn't need them. On the road you'll never get that much temperature in them to warrant bolting 3-4 kg extra unsprung and rotating weight to each hub, and our cars were more noted for their lack of handling composure on country roads taken at speed than for inadequate brakes... But then, I never felt the belts and braces approach of engineering should apply to lightweight sports cars.
There's no question you can always spend more to get better Eric, but how much more for how much better are the real questions here You know my feelings about bolting big heavy discs to a lightweight car - one without ABS-based stability control to put additional work on them at that - that doesn't need them. On the road you'll never get that much temperature in them to warrant bolting 3-4 kg extra unsprung and rotating weight to each hub, and our cars were more noted for their lack of handling composure on country roads taken at speed than for inadequate brakes... But then, I never felt the belts and braces approach of engineering should apply to lightweight sports cars.
Best value is of course the careful balance between price and performance, and I'm in no doubt the £1,500 I spent on my Brembo brake upgrade and my latest spec Tuscan 2 Bilsteins is a remarkable value for money sweet spot. Lets be honest, TVR Chimaeras are most often purchased by people with a certain budget and this directly translates to what we can afford to spend on maintaining and improving these great cars.
If money was no object we'd all be driving about on fancy Ohlins suspension and building our brakes up with discs & ally bells with new off the shelf AP Racing calipers and I'm sure some have done just this, but they will also very likely be £4,500 lighter because of it. That's a lot of dosh to invest in a car that may only ever be worth £10-£15k, and they'd still be left with an old cast iron adapted Sierra front upright that's actually designed for a McPherson strut system!
As with every purchasing decision in life there comes a point where the budget needs to be considered, for me my investment of £1,500 to achieve way better Chimaera brakes and handling is the right kind of money and in line with the car's current market value, my set up is way way better than the standard brake and suspension arrangement but probably only 10% behind the 'money no object' £4,500 option.
This is what I mean by good value for money
The cast iron Sierra upright is barely - if any - heavier than the CNC'ed alloy ones from the Cerbera and T-cars, in the same way the new aluminium TVR Parts brake master cylinders are only 10 per cent lighter than the original Ford cast iron ones (look at the shape of either).
The king pin inclination is less than ideal for double wishbones, granted - but then again, Donkervoorts as well as some other extremely high performance Sevenesque machinery used them until fairly recently and D8s of the 1990s/2000s era weren't exactly known for deficient handling or slow lap times
Opinion (everyone has one, especially on their own work) aside - you cannot change the laws of physics and any vehicle dynamics engineer will tell you that the sprung/unsprung weight ratio is a key parameter in ride and handling, that this will be more critical the lighter the car is (and also the less suspension travel/overall compliance it has) and the about 4 kg unsprung and rotating mass difference a corner is very significant on a performance car that weighs roughly a tonne. If the performance envelope of the car was such that it absolutely needed 324 mm discs to keep brake temperatures within sensible limits, that would be a sensible compromise to make (although personally that would beyond the point where I felt the added performance would make for a better overall car). However, I don't think anyone would be able to drive a Chimaera to the point where any bigger front brakes than 280-290 mm would be a real advantage, at least not without getting arrested for dangerous driving!
Unfortunately, the E38 BMW Brembo calipers are shaped for discs of at least 315 mm diameter, which makes them less appropriate for a lightweight car. However there's plenty of quality four pots out there that work fine on 283 mm Ford Cosworth discs, keeping the overall cost down to about the same level. They still incur a 2.25 kg weight penalty compared to the OEM 240 mm discs and 1.3 kg versus the 260 mm on the later cars, but the lighter calipers go a fair way to compensating that at least in terms of unsprung (if not rotating) weight.
The lug mount Wilwood calipers I am using even bolt straight to the uprights without an adaptor bracket (I have nothing against spacers on a radial mount calipers, but putting the caliper further outside from a lug mount upright using an adapter plate always struck me as a terribly Heath Robinson 'engineering' solution, the inevitable flexing of the assembly giving away any advantage you might expect from using a better, stiffer caliper)!
As for market value, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. The market seems to readily accept £95K MGBs or £250K Alfa Bertone GTs on the understanding that the cars are a result of fastidious, uncompromising (to the point of obsessive) detail engineering and provide a uniquely satisfying driving experience that is unlikely to be had from new cars, now or in the future. So again, it's not a real concern of mine (as an aside, mine has a valuation in the region of £35K+ or double that of a reasonably good standard car - it's not restored, it's not a gazillion horsepower turbo nutter special, nor does it have a £10K custom paint job; it's just gone over with a fine toothcomb and improved accordingly using the best components and technology currently on the market... - , I am happy to forge my own road, do whatever I can to make these wonderful cars gain acceptance at the more serious end of the market and learn along the way
The king pin inclination is less than ideal for double wishbones, granted - but then again, Donkervoorts as well as some other extremely high performance Sevenesque machinery used them until fairly recently and D8s of the 1990s/2000s era weren't exactly known for deficient handling or slow lap times
Opinion (everyone has one, especially on their own work) aside - you cannot change the laws of physics and any vehicle dynamics engineer will tell you that the sprung/unsprung weight ratio is a key parameter in ride and handling, that this will be more critical the lighter the car is (and also the less suspension travel/overall compliance it has) and the about 4 kg unsprung and rotating mass difference a corner is very significant on a performance car that weighs roughly a tonne. If the performance envelope of the car was such that it absolutely needed 324 mm discs to keep brake temperatures within sensible limits, that would be a sensible compromise to make (although personally that would beyond the point where I felt the added performance would make for a better overall car). However, I don't think anyone would be able to drive a Chimaera to the point where any bigger front brakes than 280-290 mm would be a real advantage, at least not without getting arrested for dangerous driving!
Unfortunately, the E38 BMW Brembo calipers are shaped for discs of at least 315 mm diameter, which makes them less appropriate for a lightweight car. However there's plenty of quality four pots out there that work fine on 283 mm Ford Cosworth discs, keeping the overall cost down to about the same level. They still incur a 2.25 kg weight penalty compared to the OEM 240 mm discs and 1.3 kg versus the 260 mm on the later cars, but the lighter calipers go a fair way to compensating that at least in terms of unsprung (if not rotating) weight.
The lug mount Wilwood calipers I am using even bolt straight to the uprights without an adaptor bracket (I have nothing against spacers on a radial mount calipers, but putting the caliper further outside from a lug mount upright using an adapter plate always struck me as a terribly Heath Robinson 'engineering' solution, the inevitable flexing of the assembly giving away any advantage you might expect from using a better, stiffer caliper)!
As for market value, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. The market seems to readily accept £95K MGBs or £250K Alfa Bertone GTs on the understanding that the cars are a result of fastidious, uncompromising (to the point of obsessive) detail engineering and provide a uniquely satisfying driving experience that is unlikely to be had from new cars, now or in the future. So again, it's not a real concern of mine (as an aside, mine has a valuation in the region of £35K+ or double that of a reasonably good standard car - it's not restored, it's not a gazillion horsepower turbo nutter special, nor does it have a £10K custom paint job; it's just gone over with a fine toothcomb and improved accordingly using the best components and technology currently on the market... - , I am happy to forge my own road, do whatever I can to make these wonderful cars gain acceptance at the more serious end of the market and learn along the way
I'm really surprised no one has come up with a better upright, a wishbone and upright package would probably be the way to go but I guess you're still stuck working around the wrong coilover inclination and then you're into changing all the pickup points so it's kind of a vicious circle 
Not looked at calliper but is it the single piston with two Allen bolts at back to undo then middle part comes out ? (I’ve got a 4” angle grinder tool to use to wind back piston )
And discs just slide on ?
I’ve got uprated front brakes need to check paperwork to see what they are as no clue just know there bigger as 16 inch wheels had to be fitted to clear the callipers
And discs just slide on ?
I’ve got uprated front brakes need to check paperwork to see what they are as no clue just know there bigger as 16 inch wheels had to be fitted to clear the callipers
"However there's plenty of quality four pots out there that work fine on 283 mm Ford Cosworth discs, keeping the overall cost down to about the same level"
As I have standard 15" wheels I would be interested to know what 4- pot calipers (apart from AP at over a £1000 a time) are available for this size of disc. Any information would be most appreciated. Thanks.
Yes, once the calipers are off the discs just pull off.
As I have standard 15" wheels I would be interested to know what 4- pot calipers (apart from AP at over a £1000 a time) are available for this size of disc. Any information would be most appreciated. Thanks.
Yes, once the calipers are off the discs just pull off.
Edited by Hedgehopper on Monday 2nd September 20:43
My local friendly motorsport factor worked out that a Wilwood Forged Superlite caliper would bolt straight to the Sierra uprights and provided them with the Sierra Cosworth discs (I found them way too heavy, so I went with some Tarox 280 x 24 racing discs on bespoke aluminium bells. The part # was 10134 if iI remember correctly.
However, installing them is not for the faint hearted because of 2 things:
1) they machined like half a mm off the thickness of the lugs, but got the offsets wrong (they probably used an upright that worked with 58 mm deep discs instead of 55.1 mm) so I needed to take 3 mm more off. There's more than enough meat on the forged alloy body/lugs to do this without unduly compromising strength, but it's still a bit disturbing to have to do this. The next set of bells I'll be having made with a 58 mm depth rather than the 55.1 of the std Cossie discs.
2) the 24 mm disc thickness sits right between two available Wilwood caliper depths. The shop chose the shallower of the two, which means one must be very precise with installing them or the brakes will probably bind when hot at the latest. The caliper lugs bolt to the rear of the Ford upright rather than to the front with the original calipers, so the casting needs to be carefully planed at the back so that the caliper sits absolutely perpendicular to the disc. It will probably take several goes before getting this absolutely right.
WARNING: you should use K-nuts to secure the calipers to the upright. Standard nuts will loosen over time, regular locking nuts will melt their plastic innards. The original cast iron Ford calipers have thread inside; the aftermarket ones don't.
All in all, this set up - be it using the Ford single piece discs or the two piece solution - needs some serious test mileage and a couple more cars for test fitting before I can unreservedly recommend replicating it.
An off- the-shelf solution based on the 283 x 24 Ford discs using adaptor brackets (horrible things, but there you go... swings and roundabouts in light of the above) is available from Keri on here (forgot his branding, sorry) and Hi Spec (Hans from the Netherlands does these with TVR branding on the calipers). Also, I've heard of one or two Chim/Griff fellows running a Bremsport set up with 285 mm discs (already on he cars when bought, so little info there sadly).
However, installing them is not for the faint hearted because of 2 things:
1) they machined like half a mm off the thickness of the lugs, but got the offsets wrong (they probably used an upright that worked with 58 mm deep discs instead of 55.1 mm) so I needed to take 3 mm more off. There's more than enough meat on the forged alloy body/lugs to do this without unduly compromising strength, but it's still a bit disturbing to have to do this. The next set of bells I'll be having made with a 58 mm depth rather than the 55.1 of the std Cossie discs.
2) the 24 mm disc thickness sits right between two available Wilwood caliper depths. The shop chose the shallower of the two, which means one must be very precise with installing them or the brakes will probably bind when hot at the latest. The caliper lugs bolt to the rear of the Ford upright rather than to the front with the original calipers, so the casting needs to be carefully planed at the back so that the caliper sits absolutely perpendicular to the disc. It will probably take several goes before getting this absolutely right.
WARNING: you should use K-nuts to secure the calipers to the upright. Standard nuts will loosen over time, regular locking nuts will melt their plastic innards. The original cast iron Ford calipers have thread inside; the aftermarket ones don't.
All in all, this set up - be it using the Ford single piece discs or the two piece solution - needs some serious test mileage and a couple more cars for test fitting before I can unreservedly recommend replicating it.
An off- the-shelf solution based on the 283 x 24 Ford discs using adaptor brackets (horrible things, but there you go... swings and roundabouts in light of the above) is available from Keri on here (forgot his branding, sorry) and Hi Spec (Hans from the Netherlands does these with TVR branding on the calipers). Also, I've heard of one or two Chim/Griff fellows running a Bremsport set up with 285 mm discs (already on he cars when bought, so little info there sadly).
ChimpOnGas said:
I'm really surprised no one has come up with a better upright, a wishbone and upright package would probably be the way to go but I guess you're still stuck working around the wrong coilover inclination and then you're into changing all the pickup points so it's kind of a vicious circle
Product liability is the killer there. You want to have your design and material spec tested and certified before unleashing it on the general public or things might come back to haunt you in a very serious way. The low # of units that you can reasonably sell makes this a no-go at this stage at least.I did inquire with Sportmotive a year or two ago about whether they'd consider offering a variation of the front upright/wishbone set up they developed for their Evolution chassis, to apply to existing chassis - alas, they are focussing on the latter exclusively.
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