6.0 XJS advice
Discussion
I have a superb late XJS in Flamenco Red which I bought a little over a year ago after much hunting which was intended for occasional visits to clients and Sunday best. Relocation of my office means I no longer visit clients by car and it seems very indulgent to run a car like that for monthly trips out in these austere times. Having the capital tied up in the car is not a problem but I am a bit of a perfectionist with my cars and constant tlc, servicing, tax, insurance and running costs add up. I am therefore considering either laying up the car properly for a few years or selling. Which route I take depends on whether the car is likely to appreciate. Am I kidding myself that the last of these 6.0 V12s are under valued and must rise? Almost every time I take it out I get a compliment and the styling is so unique sometimes people think it is a modern one-off!
I agree, very undervalued.
Will they go up? Hmm...the biggest problem is the continual fall of xk prices, why bother with an xjs when you can buy a nice xk8 for £5k or an xjr for £7k? That and people are worried about fuel and maintenance costs.
At least that's the conclusion I came too,.I really don't understand why else they would be worth what they are. Late cabrios seem to have gone up a bit over the last 5 years so that gives some hope.
Oh, and the real question is 'will it go up more then it will cost to keep'. If you keep it you can always change your mind.
Eta: pics please!
Will they go up? Hmm...the biggest problem is the continual fall of xk prices, why bother with an xjs when you can buy a nice xk8 for £5k or an xjr for £7k? That and people are worried about fuel and maintenance costs.
At least that's the conclusion I came too,.I really don't understand why else they would be worth what they are. Late cabrios seem to have gone up a bit over the last 5 years so that gives some hope.
Oh, and the real question is 'will it go up more then it will cost to keep'. If you keep it you can always change your mind.
Eta: pics please!
Edited by varsas on Friday 20th January 17:42
In my opinion, the problem the XJS suffers from is that it's not as desirable as a classic in the same way that the E-Type is, nor is it as generally sought after for most as XK8/Rs are. Whilst the late model XJSs are seen as being the most sought after, the large number of pre-facelift cars are keeping prices down for the later ones. Why pay top money for a late model when a slightly earlier one can be had for a lot less. I actually prefer the pre-facelift cars, and I know of several others who do as well, so it's not the case that the later ones are a must buy.
Petrol isn't going to get any cheaper, so a 6 litre V12 makes less and less sense even as a weekend car for many in the current climate of small efficient engines and those fuelled with the devil's juice. Given that the V12 XJS is designed for long distance running rather than short journeys around town, that fuel consumption becomes an even bigger issue.
It's not an easy car to work on either, so unless you're a dab hand with the spanners (of which fewer and fewer people are) that makes for big bills when you have to rely on a garage to do the work. Even DIY servicing isn't cheap when you need 10 litres of oil each time.
I do love my XJS, but I can see why many wouldn't want to own one other than to scratch the V12 Jaguar itch briefly, in which case paying strong money for a late model isn't really necessary.
I can't see much movement upwards on prices happening for at least another 5 years + as the supply of earlier models dwindles and the poorly kept ones get broken up for parts. Even then there's the issue of the XK8/Rs keeping a lid on prices.
Some of the higher priced XJSs I've seen have been on sale for as long as I can remember, so clearly there's not yet the demand there pushing up sales towards those.
These cars don't really like sitting around, so a few years in storage is going to take its toll when it comes to recommissioning it afterwards.
From a purely financial perspective I can't see it making a great deal of sense to keep hold of it at the moment; you probably wouldn't lose money as such but it likely wouldn't make any either. From an emotional perspective though, I wouldn't want to let it go knowing I'd found a good one that I liked. If you've got the space and don't need the money, keep it
Petrol isn't going to get any cheaper, so a 6 litre V12 makes less and less sense even as a weekend car for many in the current climate of small efficient engines and those fuelled with the devil's juice. Given that the V12 XJS is designed for long distance running rather than short journeys around town, that fuel consumption becomes an even bigger issue.
It's not an easy car to work on either, so unless you're a dab hand with the spanners (of which fewer and fewer people are) that makes for big bills when you have to rely on a garage to do the work. Even DIY servicing isn't cheap when you need 10 litres of oil each time.
I do love my XJS, but I can see why many wouldn't want to own one other than to scratch the V12 Jaguar itch briefly, in which case paying strong money for a late model isn't really necessary.
I can't see much movement upwards on prices happening for at least another 5 years + as the supply of earlier models dwindles and the poorly kept ones get broken up for parts. Even then there's the issue of the XK8/Rs keeping a lid on prices.
Some of the higher priced XJSs I've seen have been on sale for as long as I can remember, so clearly there's not yet the demand there pushing up sales towards those.
These cars don't really like sitting around, so a few years in storage is going to take its toll when it comes to recommissioning it afterwards.
From a purely financial perspective I can't see it making a great deal of sense to keep hold of it at the moment; you probably wouldn't lose money as such but it likely wouldn't make any either. From an emotional perspective though, I wouldn't want to let it go knowing I'd found a good one that I liked. If you've got the space and don't need the money, keep it
Thanks for the advice. Interesting, I had never really thought about XK8 prices affecting values; I had assumed you were either in one camp or the other. Whilst the XK8 is undoubtedly a better car, they are ubiquitous and do not stand out in the same way.
They only made a handful of the last generation V12s; wrong on so many levels but so right. I had an AJ6 4.0 before this one and whilst I agree it felt lighter, you just cannot beat that V12.
Sounds like opinion is it will not appreciate to a great extent, so I will probably sell. The problem is, if I change my mind in a few years time they are like hen's teeth these days if you have a specific colour in mind. I took me about a year to find this one!
I am away from home and don't have any pics but will put some up when I can.
They only made a handful of the last generation V12s; wrong on so many levels but so right. I had an AJ6 4.0 before this one and whilst I agree it felt lighter, you just cannot beat that V12.
Sounds like opinion is it will not appreciate to a great extent, so I will probably sell. The problem is, if I change my mind in a few years time they are like hen's teeth these days if you have a specific colour in mind. I took me about a year to find this one!
I am away from home and don't have any pics but will put some up when I can.
There is a bit in Practical Classics this month that says they are going up, but then that's from KWE who deal in XJS's and even then they say it's mainly the cabrio.
I regretted selling my XJS, or should I say regret it rusting to such an extent that I had to let it go. I still miss it. You are right, if at a later date you decide you made a mistake then finding a new 6litre will be difficult.
I don't mind looking after it for you for if you can't make your mind up, see what it feels like living without it!
Actually not such a bad idea. Just park it somewhere and pretend you don't have it for a few months, see how you feel. If you don't care then sell it.
I regretted selling my XJS, or should I say regret it rusting to such an extent that I had to let it go. I still miss it. You are right, if at a later date you decide you made a mistake then finding a new 6litre will be difficult.
I don't mind looking after it for you for if you can't make your mind up, see what it feels like living without it!
Actually not such a bad idea. Just park it somewhere and pretend you don't have it for a few months, see how you feel. If you don't care then sell it.
I have owned 2 XJ-S V12s (not at the same time, I'm not "2 Jags, John Prescott") and all I can say is that they are really an an acquired taste with a very strange market.
While they are a fantastic car and offer an awful lot of car for the money they also appeal to buyers who want a lot of car for no money, i.e. the most bang for your buck brigade.
I was lucky with my first XJ-S, bought in the mid 90s, 85 C reg, sold easy enough though I lost some money on it. I had lots of calls from buyers described above, many of which had no idea about running one (what's the fuel consumption?, yawn, etc).
The second one I owned, a 90G V12 was like a millstone. I just could not get rid of it. It was Solent Blue with grey leather, 59k miles, and in the same superb condition as my earlier car. It was fully loaded and dealers at the time all went on about how this was "one of the most desirable colour combinations".
Anyway I tried all prices, high and low (it eventually went for low, no surprise) and didn't get a single call when advertised at £4250 in Jaguar Owners Club magazines and Autotrader when others were on sale at up to 7 or 8k.
People have for years called them everything from "future classics" to "the car that will never be a classic". Well a car with its pedigree is pretty likely to be a classic in some sense at some time.
One of the problems IMHO is that it's good at many things but not superlative at many. Ride and smoothness and quality (yes, quality, mine were very well screwed together though I did spend countless hours dismantling my cars, cleaning out rust traps, cleaning electrical connectors, maintaining the hell out of both cars). Handling is OK, performance is good, fuel economy is terrible, interior space is abysmal (the single worst aspect of the car I would say).
Though I agree the XK is a much better car in most respects, the XJ-S has a look and appeal of its own and I think genuine XJ-S fans will still want one. After all if it was down to "which is the better car" why would anyone want a Series 1, 2 or 3 XJ6 when they could buy a later saloon for similar money?
On another discussion on another site the question was asked "what makes a car a classic, or even desirable, when the newer cars are so much better?" And they are. Why on earth would anyone want a Cortina, when you can buy a new anything that is faster, has better economy, a higher standard of equipment and is more usable in every respect?
The answer I liked best was "because the cars you start to desire are the ones that remind you of the your past/childhood/are from an era that was important to you/are cars you used to own", and similar reasons.
So to some, an XJ-S will be desirable. They are actually the first exotic Jaguar coupe that I can really remember, me being too young to really recollect E-Types, so I will always have a thing for an XJ-S.
I find it hard to believe they will ever be really "big money" cars though the fact companies like KW and AJ6 engineering, can refettle these cars at great cost and find buyers, proves that there are some people with real money that want to spend it on an XJ-S.
Good thing: I think with the availability of parts now a good one can be enjoyed for a reasonable running cost, apart from fuel that is.
Bad thing: as pointed out above, it is a painful irony that such a great cruiser capable of covering huge distances in great comfort, will hit the pocket hard when you really want to drive it the hundreds of miles at a time that the car will relish...
As mentioned by a previous poster an XJ-S just does not like being left standing. I had intermittent glitches when used as occasional cars but when I used one as a daily driver it was virtually trouble free.
I am always keeping an eye on the classifieds as I want to own another one before I die, and I must say that nice ones are getting fewer and further between though I think any above £10k must have a very limited market.
I think for a long time they will be a car for the diehard fan who will lose money at selling time. I am thinking about spending £6k max on a late 80's HE V12 (similar to the ones I owned as they are my favourite for looks) and I would imagine not getting that back if I were to sell. I personally also like the idea of a late 6.0 litre as the 4 speed automatic must be a real improvement over the dinosaur TH400 3 speed and the galvanised body is a bonus. I just cannot countenance the plastic bumpers though! I would have to convert it back to chrome bumpers which I think can be done.
Phew, after all that, my advice would be, yes it probably will appreciate one day, but that day is somewhere in the very distant future...
While they are a fantastic car and offer an awful lot of car for the money they also appeal to buyers who want a lot of car for no money, i.e. the most bang for your buck brigade.
I was lucky with my first XJ-S, bought in the mid 90s, 85 C reg, sold easy enough though I lost some money on it. I had lots of calls from buyers described above, many of which had no idea about running one (what's the fuel consumption?, yawn, etc).
The second one I owned, a 90G V12 was like a millstone. I just could not get rid of it. It was Solent Blue with grey leather, 59k miles, and in the same superb condition as my earlier car. It was fully loaded and dealers at the time all went on about how this was "one of the most desirable colour combinations".
Anyway I tried all prices, high and low (it eventually went for low, no surprise) and didn't get a single call when advertised at £4250 in Jaguar Owners Club magazines and Autotrader when others were on sale at up to 7 or 8k.
People have for years called them everything from "future classics" to "the car that will never be a classic". Well a car with its pedigree is pretty likely to be a classic in some sense at some time.
One of the problems IMHO is that it's good at many things but not superlative at many. Ride and smoothness and quality (yes, quality, mine were very well screwed together though I did spend countless hours dismantling my cars, cleaning out rust traps, cleaning electrical connectors, maintaining the hell out of both cars). Handling is OK, performance is good, fuel economy is terrible, interior space is abysmal (the single worst aspect of the car I would say).
Though I agree the XK is a much better car in most respects, the XJ-S has a look and appeal of its own and I think genuine XJ-S fans will still want one. After all if it was down to "which is the better car" why would anyone want a Series 1, 2 or 3 XJ6 when they could buy a later saloon for similar money?
On another discussion on another site the question was asked "what makes a car a classic, or even desirable, when the newer cars are so much better?" And they are. Why on earth would anyone want a Cortina, when you can buy a new anything that is faster, has better economy, a higher standard of equipment and is more usable in every respect?
The answer I liked best was "because the cars you start to desire are the ones that remind you of the your past/childhood/are from an era that was important to you/are cars you used to own", and similar reasons.
So to some, an XJ-S will be desirable. They are actually the first exotic Jaguar coupe that I can really remember, me being too young to really recollect E-Types, so I will always have a thing for an XJ-S.
I find it hard to believe they will ever be really "big money" cars though the fact companies like KW and AJ6 engineering, can refettle these cars at great cost and find buyers, proves that there are some people with real money that want to spend it on an XJ-S.
Good thing: I think with the availability of parts now a good one can be enjoyed for a reasonable running cost, apart from fuel that is.
Bad thing: as pointed out above, it is a painful irony that such a great cruiser capable of covering huge distances in great comfort, will hit the pocket hard when you really want to drive it the hundreds of miles at a time that the car will relish...
As mentioned by a previous poster an XJ-S just does not like being left standing. I had intermittent glitches when used as occasional cars but when I used one as a daily driver it was virtually trouble free.
I am always keeping an eye on the classifieds as I want to own another one before I die, and I must say that nice ones are getting fewer and further between though I think any above £10k must have a very limited market.
I think for a long time they will be a car for the diehard fan who will lose money at selling time. I am thinking about spending £6k max on a late 80's HE V12 (similar to the ones I owned as they are my favourite for looks) and I would imagine not getting that back if I were to sell. I personally also like the idea of a late 6.0 litre as the 4 speed automatic must be a real improvement over the dinosaur TH400 3 speed and the galvanised body is a bonus. I just cannot countenance the plastic bumpers though! I would have to convert it back to chrome bumpers which I think can be done.
Phew, after all that, my advice would be, yes it probably will appreciate one day, but that day is somewhere in the very distant future...
Edited by malc350 on Wednesday 25th January 20:25
I ran a 1983 V12HE from 1986 to 1999. The 15MPG got tedious but it was the electrical gremlins ground me down. It got to the point when it was a bonus when it started. Also useless in winter when it took 15 miles to reach operating temperature and for the ICC released all the horses.
Itch scratched, Never again.
Itch scratched, Never again.
audidoody said:
I ran a 1983 V12HE from 1986 to 1999. The 15MPG got tedious but it was the electrical gremlins ground me down. It got to the point when it was a bonus when it started. Also useless in winter when it took 15 miles to reach operating temperature and for the ICC released all the horses.
Itch scratched, Never again.
Well you owned one for a lot longer than me. I must be really lucky because I had very few problems apart from routine stuff like replacing a starter, dead crankshaft sensor, alternator, AC fusible link went. Steering rack bushes had play on one. Plus on both I replaced the expansion tank.Itch scratched, Never again.
I did all the work myself on both cars. I didn't find the V12 particularly hard to work on, there's just more to unbolt to do anything so every job takes longer. Routine servicing is fairly straightforward. The only job I didn't do was the water pump on one as the angle you have to reach into the engine bay is just the wrong angle for my iffy back!
Regarding electrical gremlins I had more problems when I didn't use the car. As a daily driver which my first XJS was for a while I had very little get in the way of the pleasure of driving. I did find that I could cure inoperative central locking by unplugging the relay and putting it back in...
Fuel consumption: both cars never got above 21 and a bit mpg. The gorgeous V12 is hampered by the biggest mismatch of all - the GM400 slushbox. It really needs at least a 4 speed lockup auto (which makes the 94 6.0 so attractive) or a manual 5 or 6 speed which can now be done if you don't mind spending about 6 grand. Would be great to be able to wind that V12 up through the gears though...
Will I scratch that itch again? After all they're future classics and will go up, won't they? I think the world will run out of fuel before that happens...
A car you can love and hate at the same time!
deadslow said:
audidoody said:
I ran a 1983 V12HE from 1986 to 1999.
Itch scratched, Never again.
Have to admire your sense of fairness - taking 13 years to decide the XJS is unreliable!!!Itch scratched, Never again.
'Thy wasn't the XJS made like that, a real follow on from the E-Type'
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