S Type 4.0 2001 - expert opinion on what I should look for.
Discussion
Not been a Jag owner before but looking to replace the second car and wife decides she fancies a classic Jag. Looked at a 4.0 S Type yesterday which seems in good nick and has just 64k on the clock but not much history. Dealer servicing up to 40k, nothing after although seller says his local garage has done the work with ex-jag mechanic. Drives well, very smooth and quiet, everything seemes to work. I am nervous though, I have heard these engines can give serious problems with Nikasil wear or something? Don't know how this one would be affected if at all. At tickover it seemed to have a slight misfire but this was not obvious when on the road at higher revs etc. I left it ticking over after a good run for ages and the fan never came on although the temp gauge stayed in the middle all the time. Aircon was suspect. I think it probably just needs a good service as the brakes didn't feel too sharp either.
What do you think? Worth a punt £2250 asking price.
I really need another V8 on my drive!
Cheers.
What do you think? Worth a punt £2250 asking price.
I really need another V8 on my drive!
Cheers.
I had from new a 4.0 V8 S-Type for near on three years and 75,000 miles, and then replaced it with a 4.2 V8 S-Type.
My first advice is DON'T GET THE 4.0 V8. There's nothing really wrong with the car but the later model is so much improved: it has a far better and more Jaguar like interior, a far better 6 speed auto box, much improved front suspension, and more BHP. Also the 4.0 V8 timing chain tensioners were very suspect and it's always recommended they are changed, maybe with the chains and water pump too, all in all maybe a £1100-£1300 job. The 4.2 has the latest design tensioners and are far less likely to fail. Mine have done 110,000 miles so far. The 4.2 will not have any Nikasil issues although a 4.0 should be Ok now anyway having survived until now.
Check the auto box for any strange noises especially when accelerating without using kickdown. There are know faults and my car suffered these, all of which were fixed under warranty.
Also check the heating system is working OK. There are minor faults that occur and getting some of the parts can be difficult.
I have no plans to sell my car even though it will be 9 years old at the end of the year, which tells you something!
R
My first advice is DON'T GET THE 4.0 V8. There's nothing really wrong with the car but the later model is so much improved: it has a far better and more Jaguar like interior, a far better 6 speed auto box, much improved front suspension, and more BHP. Also the 4.0 V8 timing chain tensioners were very suspect and it's always recommended they are changed, maybe with the chains and water pump too, all in all maybe a £1100-£1300 job. The 4.2 has the latest design tensioners and are far less likely to fail. Mine have done 110,000 miles so far. The 4.2 will not have any Nikasil issues although a 4.0 should be Ok now anyway having survived until now.
Check the auto box for any strange noises especially when accelerating without using kickdown. There are know faults and my car suffered these, all of which were fixed under warranty.
Also check the heating system is working OK. There are minor faults that occur and getting some of the parts can be difficult.
I have no plans to sell my car even though it will be 9 years old at the end of the year, which tells you something!
R
Thanks for the information The Leaper. Very interesting to hear what you say about the car. I must say I was a bit disappointed with the interior. As far as I could tell it was changing up and down the box very well, but I didn't drive it very far. I did check the heater and it seemed to work okay although it didn't get very cold when I went for the lowest setting. Is there any way to tell about chain tensioners? I am very nervous about this car so appreciate your advice. Thanks again.
The 4.0 V8 was, along with other models, the first iteration of the S-Type and appeared during the latter period of Ford ownership of Jaguar, but by the time the 4.2 came out Ford had sold ou (I think this is so). This explains why the 4.0 interior is inferior and the later one much better, along with a significant number of other model changes.
Regarding the tensioners, Jaguar advice is to make sure they are changed ahead of 100,000 miles so it would seem at first sight that if you get the 4.0 you have a while to go BUT common wisdom on this Jaguar forum is that it is far better to change sooner rather than later. I know no way of telling in advance whether the job is needed or whether it has already been done. You know when they are about to break up because of the clattering noise they make especially when starting the engine. A failure means an engine rebuild at least. The have been three different tensioner designs, the latter being mostly metal and far better than the predecessors. Maybe another PHer will come along with more useful advice.
Incidentally, the Nikasil issue is not confined to Jaguar. It affected Mercedes and BMW too for example. It was related to the level of sulpher in petrol several years back, and the level is much reduced now, so if the 4.0 has made it to 2012, Nikasil should not be an issue.
R.
Regarding the tensioners, Jaguar advice is to make sure they are changed ahead of 100,000 miles so it would seem at first sight that if you get the 4.0 you have a while to go BUT common wisdom on this Jaguar forum is that it is far better to change sooner rather than later. I know no way of telling in advance whether the job is needed or whether it has already been done. You know when they are about to break up because of the clattering noise they make especially when starting the engine. A failure means an engine rebuild at least. The have been three different tensioner designs, the latter being mostly metal and far better than the predecessors. Maybe another PHer will come along with more useful advice.
Incidentally, the Nikasil issue is not confined to Jaguar. It affected Mercedes and BMW too for example. It was related to the level of sulpher in petrol several years back, and the level is much reduced now, so if the 4.0 has made it to 2012, Nikasil should not be an issue.
R.
That is very interesting, thanks again for you help. There are no real issues with it as far as I can tell, and this will only do low miles in my ownership but you have put me off this car unless I can get it very cheaply, at £2250 it doesn't seem such a bargain now! I think I will hang on and look for a later car with the better interior and better engine etc. Are the V6 cars worth a look do you think?
I know very little about the 3.0. When I was looking for the 4.0 some years back I had a test drive and also of a 3.0. I opted for the 4.0 mainly because it was more like a Jaguar that I anticipated.
I think I'm right in saying that of the total S-Types sold, something like 11% were V8s, the rest made up of the other engine sizes of which there were several.
I am sure other PHers with 3.0 tales to tell will be along on here soon!
R.
I think I'm right in saying that of the total S-Types sold, something like 11% were V8s, the rest made up of the other engine sizes of which there were several.
I am sure other PHers with 3.0 tales to tell will be along on here soon!
R.
Two designs of secondary timing chain tensioners on the 4.0 V8
1st gen: From V8 launch to 2000 model year. Orange plastic body and actuated by engine oil pressure. Suceptable to cracking and guide delamination. These will allow tell tale rattle on cold start until oil pressure has built up. Rattle sounds a bit like pushbike chain dragging along chainguard.
2nd gen: 2000 model year to 4.2 V8 launch in 2003. White/cream plastic body and permanently tensioned by internal spring. Stronger but still succeptable to cracking. Usually fail silently with no warning.
3rd gen: Metal bodied tensioner introduced with 4.2 engine. Can be retro fitted to 4.0.
1 and 2 gen tensioners are considered a fragile penny pinching design and degenerate further with lack of servicing. Build up of acids in heavilly contaminated oil causes embrittlement of the bodies leading to cracking. Failure will allow exhaust cam timing to slip. One cog slip will cause rough running - any more will allow exhaust valves to contact pistons.
Both designs should be replaced with 3rd gen metal type. This is preventative maintainance and providing servicing has been kept up and mileage is reasonable thats often all thats needed. Easy enough to check whats fitted on any particular car, just remove the RH cam cover and look. Tensioners are about £80 a pair, gaskets about £50 and labour should be 3 hours maximum.
Jaguar steve said:
Two designs of secondary timing chain tensioners on the 4.0 V8
1st gen: From V8 launch to 2000 model year. Orange plastic body and actuated by engine oil pressure. Suceptable to cracking and guide delamination. These will allow tell tale rattle on cold start until oil pressure has built up. Rattle sounds a bit like pushbike chain dragging along chainguard.
2nd gen: 2000 model year to 4.2 V8 launch in 2003. White/cream plastic body and permanently tensioned by internal spring. Stronger but still succeptable to cracking. Usually fail silently with no warning.
3rd gen: Metal bodied tensioner introduced with 4.2 engine. Can be retro fitted to 4.0.
1 and 2 gen tensioners are considered a fragile penny pinching design and degenerate further with lack of servicing. Build up of acids in heavilly contaminated oil causes embrittlement of the bodies leading to cracking. Failure will allow exhaust cam timing to slip. One cog slip will cause rough running - any more will allow exhaust valves to contact pistons.
Both designs should be replaced with 3rd gen metal type. This is preventative maintainance and providing servicing has been kept up and mileage is reasonable thats often all thats needed. Easy enough to check whats fitted on any particular car, just remove the RH cam cover and look. Tensioners are about £80 a pair, gaskets about £50 and labour should be 3 hours maximum.
Thanks for this info, I am going to see if I can find out if this has been done properly, but the service book is stamped by a Jag dealer until 40k, it now had 64k but no history.The more I hear about these cars the more I think I will walk awayand look for a newer facelift car. Still like the S type.
1st gen: From V8 launch to 2000 model year. Orange plastic body and actuated by engine oil pressure. Suceptable to cracking and guide delamination. These will allow tell tale rattle on cold start until oil pressure has built up. Rattle sounds a bit like pushbike chain dragging along chainguard.
2nd gen: 2000 model year to 4.2 V8 launch in 2003. White/cream plastic body and permanently tensioned by internal spring. Stronger but still succeptable to cracking. Usually fail silently with no warning.
3rd gen: Metal bodied tensioner introduced with 4.2 engine. Can be retro fitted to 4.0.
1 and 2 gen tensioners are considered a fragile penny pinching design and degenerate further with lack of servicing. Build up of acids in heavilly contaminated oil causes embrittlement of the bodies leading to cracking. Failure will allow exhaust cam timing to slip. One cog slip will cause rough running - any more will allow exhaust valves to contact pistons.
Both designs should be replaced with 3rd gen metal type. This is preventative maintainance and providing servicing has been kept up and mileage is reasonable thats often all thats needed. Easy enough to check whats fitted on any particular car, just remove the RH cam cover and look. Tensioners are about £80 a pair, gaskets about £50 and labour should be 3 hours maximum.
Thanks for this info, I am going to see if I can find out if this has been done properly, but the service book is stamped by a Jag dealer until 40k, it now had 64k but no history.The more I hear about these cars the more I think I will walk awayand look for a newer facelift car. Still like the S type.
I would hold out for the 4.2 model. Better interiors, better chassis, and as you are aware,far better engine. A nice 4.2 SE would be my choice,300 bhp is more than enough power. I wouldn't be too put off by fairly high miles either, as long as t has a good history. A high miler 4.2 is far better than a low miles 4.0.
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