1998 3.2 XJ8 Stalling and Advice and Help Required!
Discussion
Hey guys,
I recently bought a 1998 Jaguar XJ8 3.2 V8 with 108,000 miles on the clock, the car is in absolutely mint condition and came with 12 months MOT and 6 months Tax. I bought it for what seemed like an amazing bargain price of £600. However, this bargain may not be so after all...
Having driven it on the test drive it performed and handled great, but as I only live a mile away from the bloke I bought it from I didnt do too much driving in it and obviously when I drove it home and parked it up all was well. The problem arose a few days ago when driving home from work, I only work about 10 miles away and although the car drove great for the first 8 or 9 miles on the last mile home the car felt lumpy and cut out stating ENGINE STALLED, CHECK ENGINE. I turned the car off and then back on again and it stated RESTRICTED PERFORMANCE. I got the car home and left it until the following day.
This week I am working at a different depot which is twice as far, after about 13 or 14 miles or so, once again the car felt lumpy and stalled stating the same warning lights, I had to keep restarting it as otherwise I would have caused a traffic jam. On the last few miles into work it probably stalled about another 4 or 5 times until I managed to get it into work.
Currently the car is sat inside my works carpark waiting for me to finish at 4PM and take me home, and I know that she will drive just fine for the first leg of my journey, but that she will decide to throw a hissy fit the closer to home I get. It seems after about 10 miles something happens that causes the engine to go lumpy and stall.
I fear that it has the dreaded Nikasil problem and that the engine is severely buggered, if this is the case it's not a BIG deal as I can probably cope with the problem for a year until the MOT runs out along with my insurance and sell the thing on for about £400 still. As I said I live just 10 miles from my usual place of work and can limit the car to short journeys. Ideally though I'd love to get it fixed. Does anybody have any help or advice they could lend to get this Fat Cat back up and running as she should???
Thanks in advance!
Darren
I recently bought a 1998 Jaguar XJ8 3.2 V8 with 108,000 miles on the clock, the car is in absolutely mint condition and came with 12 months MOT and 6 months Tax. I bought it for what seemed like an amazing bargain price of £600. However, this bargain may not be so after all...
Having driven it on the test drive it performed and handled great, but as I only live a mile away from the bloke I bought it from I didnt do too much driving in it and obviously when I drove it home and parked it up all was well. The problem arose a few days ago when driving home from work, I only work about 10 miles away and although the car drove great for the first 8 or 9 miles on the last mile home the car felt lumpy and cut out stating ENGINE STALLED, CHECK ENGINE. I turned the car off and then back on again and it stated RESTRICTED PERFORMANCE. I got the car home and left it until the following day.
This week I am working at a different depot which is twice as far, after about 13 or 14 miles or so, once again the car felt lumpy and stalled stating the same warning lights, I had to keep restarting it as otherwise I would have caused a traffic jam. On the last few miles into work it probably stalled about another 4 or 5 times until I managed to get it into work.
Currently the car is sat inside my works carpark waiting for me to finish at 4PM and take me home, and I know that she will drive just fine for the first leg of my journey, but that she will decide to throw a hissy fit the closer to home I get. It seems after about 10 miles something happens that causes the engine to go lumpy and stall.
I fear that it has the dreaded Nikasil problem and that the engine is severely buggered, if this is the case it's not a BIG deal as I can probably cope with the problem for a year until the MOT runs out along with my insurance and sell the thing on for about £400 still. As I said I live just 10 miles from my usual place of work and can limit the car to short journeys. Ideally though I'd love to get it fixed. Does anybody have any help or advice they could lend to get this Fat Cat back up and running as she should???
Thanks in advance!
Darren
Nicasil failure normally manifests as high speed cranking and refusal to start when cold and a lumpy idle. It may be your car needs a new throttlebody - there was a general recall to replace the pre 2000 ones a while ago as under certain circumstances the actuating motor was unable to overcome engine vacuum when opening the throttle at high engine speed overun.
I'd suggest it's worth removing the engine air intake trunking and firstly look for evidence of oil mist contamination inside the trunking and around the bore of the throttle body. If it's reasonably clean chances are you don't have nicasil issues. Get hold of some carburettor cleaner and carefully open the butterfly valve in the throttle body with your fingers and spray and carefully wipe with a very big piece of cloth that won't fit inside the body both the valve, particurlarly round the circumference, and inside of the bore to clean it.
When you're doing this FFS don't risk droping anything down into the manifold.
Next remove the part throttle breather pipe on the top of the LH cam cover and carefully turn by hand a 2.5mm drill bit down the calibrated bole in the stub the pipe fits on to clean it out.
You may possibily have a failing air flow meter. It's worth a shot of carb cleaner on the temperature sensor too, that's the little brown glass bulb with two wires inside the afm, just in case it's so dirty it's unable to accurately sense intake air temperature and is feeding incorrect information to the engine management
Take the plugs - NGK PFR 501E, cheap enough on ebay - out and check all the gaps (1.0mm) and condition. It may be worth changing the engine oil too, it's just possible a combination of a worn engine coupled with heavily contaminated oil may be producing enough oil mist and crankcase pressure to affect engine running, especialy when hot.
Might be worth a OBD11 scan to see if any fault codes are stored after the warning messages and go from there. Scanners are about £20 and worth every penny.
I'd suggest it's worth removing the engine air intake trunking and firstly look for evidence of oil mist contamination inside the trunking and around the bore of the throttle body. If it's reasonably clean chances are you don't have nicasil issues. Get hold of some carburettor cleaner and carefully open the butterfly valve in the throttle body with your fingers and spray and carefully wipe with a very big piece of cloth that won't fit inside the body both the valve, particurlarly round the circumference, and inside of the bore to clean it.
When you're doing this FFS don't risk droping anything down into the manifold.
Next remove the part throttle breather pipe on the top of the LH cam cover and carefully turn by hand a 2.5mm drill bit down the calibrated bole in the stub the pipe fits on to clean it out.
You may possibily have a failing air flow meter. It's worth a shot of carb cleaner on the temperature sensor too, that's the little brown glass bulb with two wires inside the afm, just in case it's so dirty it's unable to accurately sense intake air temperature and is feeding incorrect information to the engine management
Take the plugs - NGK PFR 501E, cheap enough on ebay - out and check all the gaps (1.0mm) and condition. It may be worth changing the engine oil too, it's just possible a combination of a worn engine coupled with heavily contaminated oil may be producing enough oil mist and crankcase pressure to affect engine running, especialy when hot.
Might be worth a OBD11 scan to see if any fault codes are stored after the warning messages and go from there. Scanners are about £20 and worth every penny.
Thanks for the quick and informative response mate, I will try this once I get home tonight. Just to mention, the air filter housing is cracked so you can see a bit of the filter, is it worth replacing this, this couldn't really cause a problem could it?
Also, just to verify, the throttle body is at the top of the engine bay toward the windscreen right? Once I have removed the air filter trucking it should reveal itself pretty easily I guess.
It's a shame as it is a beautiful car, way to good to ever scrap!
Also, just to verify, the throttle body is at the top of the engine bay toward the windscreen right? Once I have removed the air filter trucking it should reveal itself pretty easily I guess.
It's a shame as it is a beautiful car, way to good to ever scrap!
Darren156 said:
Thanks for the quick and informative response mate, I will try this once I get home tonight. Just to mention, the air filter housing is cracked so you can see a bit of the filter, is it worth replacing this, this couldn't really cause a problem could it?
Also, just to verify, the throttle body is at the top of the engine bay toward the windscreen right? Once I have removed the air filter trucking it should reveal itself pretty easily I guess.
It's a shame as it is a beautiful car, way to good to ever scrap!
Cracked air filter box shoudn't be a problem - gaffa tape it to be sure - but any air leaks downstream of the airflow meter are. If your car has been flooded at any time in the past it may have backfired and possibily split the air intake trunking or the air filter box which will cause just this problem. Often seen on LPG cars which have run the LPG tank dry and gone way too lean. Check it all over, especially the T junction resonator box under the centre trim.Also, just to verify, the throttle body is at the top of the engine bay toward the windscreen right? Once I have removed the air filter trucking it should reveal itself pretty easily I guess.
It's a shame as it is a beautiful car, way to good to ever scrap!
Yup, throttle body is in the centre of the engine compartment at the rear.
Clean may be all it needs, but I's still scrounge or buy a scanner to see if there's any codes stored. The OBD socket is just above where your left foot would be in the drivers footwell. PM me if you read any and I'll tell you what they mean.
Steve, tonight I took the entire air filter trunking off and cleaned the throttle body out and also used electrical tape to repair a crack in the air filter trunking. There is a little plastic pipe that comes off of the main trunking which was nearly hanging off, I have repaired this but the problem is just as bad as ever. The air filter box is cracked and loose so you can see the air filter, could this be an issue? I called the bloke I bought the car from less than a week ago and he said he had a problem with it stalling before and it was that pipe that comes off the trunking. He said once that was repaired the car was fine. He seemed honest enough. Not sure what to do next. Probably best to get the fault codes read and then go from there. Any more input from you mate is appreciated. Thanks.
Without going out to the garage to have a look I think you're talking about the breather pipe that comes off the RH cam cover and feeds into the air intake trunking. If this is leaking and feeds downsteam of the air flow meter yes it will be a problen as the engine is able to draw in air via the leak that has not been measured by the afm so the engine managment will not be able to accurately fuel.
You won't know this is your problem for sure until you either repair or replace any leaking components. Even if that's not the problem, or just one of many you'll neeed to get any induction air leaks fixed before you can carry on diagnosis.
Certainly sounds like it may be a induction leak - symptoms of these are always worse on light load/high engine vacuum situations such as when idling
You won't know this is your problem for sure until you either repair or replace any leaking components. Even if that's not the problem, or just one of many you'll neeed to get any induction air leaks fixed before you can carry on diagnosis.
Certainly sounds like it may be a induction leak - symptoms of these are always worse on light load/high engine vacuum situations such as when idling
Thanks steve. I will repair or replace that leak the weekend then. Here's another odd thing, it seems to stall and restrict performance only when cornering sharply. I though this may mean something is loose so had a look under the hood and saw that the wires coming from the AFM were touching the engine block. Every time I wiggled the connection the car stalled. I have taped them away from the block and back towards the air filter housing and drove the car this morning and it seemed alot better and didn't stall at all. Felt a bit lumpy but this could be due to the leak in the oil breather pipe that goes from the engine into the air filter trunking. I'm hoping this is the problem and not a knackered engine. If it is then the repair shouldn't be too costly. To his credit the guy I bought it off came round and we went through all this together and he said worst case scenario is he would give me a full refund and take the car back. I want to repair it though really.
Not sure how it got damaged to be honest steve. I've driven the car about 30 miles to my dads today and apart from it being a bit lumpy and the revs fluctuating whilst driing it wasnt too bad. What do you reckon this could be? There also seems to be oil weeping from the join where the air filter trunking meets the air fitter box. I'm confused as to why there is an oil breather pipe going into the air filter trunking as won't this just get oil into the air filter and AMF?
Darren156 said:
Not sure how it got damaged to be honest steve. I've driven the car about 30 miles to my dads today and apart from it being a bit lumpy and the revs fluctuating whilst driing it wasnt too bad. What do you reckon this could be? There also seems to be oil weeping from the join where the air filter trunking meets the air fitter box. I'm confused as to why there is an oil breather pipe going into the air filter trunking as won't this just get oil into the air filter and AMF?
Lumpy running and revs fluctuating could well be an air leak somewhere.The oil breather pipe is needed for emissions regulations to burn off crankcase fumes and oil mist rather than just vent them out to atmosphere. No - it won't get oil into the airfilter or AFM unless it's pouring in from excess crankcase pressure as it's downstream. The dirty air input to the trunking is allowed for when calculating how much fuel is required to be injected. That's why it's important to make sure there are absolutely no leaks anywhere in the system downstream of the AFM and the calibrated 2.5 mm part throttle breather is clear. The V8 runs so lean on light loads any air leak anywhere will fucjk the fuelling right up and make the engine run like a bag 'o shyte.
Steve, having driven the car now for a few days since bodge jobbing the AMF wiring away from the engine block the car has been running relatively well. No stalling and no cutting out and no warning lights. Performance seems to have been restored fully and apart from the lumpyness the car drives without fault. I think you've hit the nail on the head with an air leak downstream of the AFM. Where the trunking meets the AFM and the oil is weeping I think this is where the leak is as it doesn't seem to fit snug. It obviously has a leek otherwise it wouldn't be weeping oil. I think I need to remove the complete air filter trunking and then refit it all ensuring ZERO gaps or leaks can be possible. And I'll also try and protect all of that AFM wiring that's on show so there's no risk of it getting burnt off of that big V8 block. Any other suggestions? Thanks for all your help mate it's been great!
No problem. 
Lumpy running may be another fault entirely, but you'll not know that for sure until you're absolutely certain you have no induction air leaks. Always better to be sure you've completely sorted one problem at a time before moving on to the next, otherwise you get confused and loose track of what you've done and what you should do next. Whenever I'm working on a complex car problem I keep a pad of A4 paper and write down what I've done, how it all came apart paying particurlar attention to top - bottom, left - right orientation, where all the bits go and what to do next. Laying out dismantled components on the bench the same way you read a book ie: from top left to bottom right makes reassembly easy - you just work backwards when putting it all back together and the next bit is right there.
If lumpiness persists go back through my previous suggestions and see what else you can find. OBD11 scanners are about £20 to buy so it's worth getting one and seeing what's recorded. You may have a plug or coil pack occasionally breaking down, but you'll never know without a scan.
Lumpy running may be another fault entirely, but you'll not know that for sure until you're absolutely certain you have no induction air leaks. Always better to be sure you've completely sorted one problem at a time before moving on to the next, otherwise you get confused and loose track of what you've done and what you should do next. Whenever I'm working on a complex car problem I keep a pad of A4 paper and write down what I've done, how it all came apart paying particurlar attention to top - bottom, left - right orientation, where all the bits go and what to do next. Laying out dismantled components on the bench the same way you read a book ie: from top left to bottom right makes reassembly easy - you just work backwards when putting it all back together and the next bit is right there.
If lumpiness persists go back through my previous suggestions and see what else you can find. OBD11 scanners are about £20 to buy so it's worth getting one and seeing what's recorded. You may have a plug or coil pack occasionally breaking down, but you'll never know without a scan.
Hey Steve, over the last few days the car got bad again so today I finally got round to taking everything apart and putting it back together and I SEEM to have solved the problem. It appears the main problem was the gap between the AFM and air filter trunking where the oil breather is. I've put this back together so it's 100% air tight. (For the time being!) it seems what happens is after a week or so of driving this pipe shifts out of the AFM and causes the gap. As I said before the air filter box is broken and I think because of it's lack of rigidity to the top section it waves about when cornering and all comes apart. So, here is my blasphemous question of the week: Can I replace the entire air box with a K&N cone filter instead? (Shock horror I know) MY reason for this would be so that the air filtering trunking doesn't have to be fixed to that dodgy air box. Or is fitting after Market air filters a sure fire way to blow up the AFM?
The critical point is the AFM must measure all the air drawn into the engine plus a known or tolerated allowance through the full and part throttle breathers
A K&N "high flow" filter, or any other after market accessory will not make any difference to poor running - the engine will simply compensate for any additional airflow - providing it's able to measure it - by increasing fuelling to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio. If you have a leak downstream of the AFM whatever you fit upstream of the AFM will make no difference. There's no restrictions or problems with the standard intake system providing it's working correctly and any gains from a changing the intake configuration with after market modifications will usually only happen on very wide throttle openings, which is nothing to do with the problem you have described. If you've got doubts about the integrity of the intake trunking you'll have to either repair or replace any weak or suspect part downstream of the AFM. Once you are absolutley sure there are no leaks anywhere that'll be the time to carry diagnosis further.
Take it all apart, check for any potential leaks and replace any suspect components - then start looking elsewhere.
A K&N "high flow" filter, or any other after market accessory will not make any difference to poor running - the engine will simply compensate for any additional airflow - providing it's able to measure it - by increasing fuelling to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio. If you have a leak downstream of the AFM whatever you fit upstream of the AFM will make no difference. There's no restrictions or problems with the standard intake system providing it's working correctly and any gains from a changing the intake configuration with after market modifications will usually only happen on very wide throttle openings, which is nothing to do with the problem you have described. If you've got doubts about the integrity of the intake trunking you'll have to either repair or replace any weak or suspect part downstream of the AFM. Once you are absolutley sure there are no leaks anywhere that'll be the time to carry diagnosis further.
Take it all apart, check for any potential leaks and replace any suspect components - then start looking elsewhere.
Gassing Station | Jaguar | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff