JAGUAR XJ V8 4.0
Discussion
Hi
Looking to buy my first jag, and the above car appeals to me. Just looking for general info regarding these cars i.e. is this a good example?
Also does anyone know of a jaguar garage in the Ayrshire part of Scotland?
Thanks
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C304518
Looking to buy my first jag, and the above car appeals to me. Just looking for general info regarding these cars i.e. is this a good example?
Also does anyone know of a jaguar garage in the Ayrshire part of Scotland?
Thanks
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C304518
,? In the first part of the ad it says no warning lights. Then at the end it says gearbox light on and will need trailering away! Surprised to see you would consider buying a car that you can't drive away and that is already good money.
Also there is no mention of tensioners and gearbox oil changed . if I'm correct I don't think they would have had the latest gen tensioners from new. Also is 92,000 low miles for a 2001? I have two 1998 XJRs that have done 15,000 and 28,000 less than that.
Great choice in cars though, hope you end up with a good un
Lester
Also there is no mention of tensioners and gearbox oil changed . if I'm correct I don't think they would have had the latest gen tensioners from new. Also is 92,000 low miles for a 2001? I have two 1998 XJRs that have done 15,000 and 28,000 less than that.
Great choice in cars though, hope you end up with a good un
Lester
Edited by lestershaw on Saturday 3rd November 18:41
Not looking good to me. Apart from the vendors spelling and abuse of the English language which always makes me suspicious it's advertised as having an MOT to 2013 which is only weeks away and dispite the claim it's one of the best XJ8's in the UK and is silky smooth with no warning lights it's eventually admitted there is a gearbox fault and the car will have to trailered.
He wants £1450 for it. Tow it to a scrapyard and you'll get maybe £275 - £300 and return the tax disc to the DVLA and that'll put another £100 in your pocket. That's the bottom line. You coud easily spend more than the asking price fixing it and you go down that route you'll have spent more money in total than the cost of buying a really good example in the first place.
There could potentially be so much else wrong with that particurlar car - and the person selling it - I'd dismiss it as not even worth looking at unless you can get it for peanuts and have the ability and enthusiasm to repair it yourself.
He wants £1450 for it. Tow it to a scrapyard and you'll get maybe £275 - £300 and return the tax disc to the DVLA and that'll put another £100 in your pocket. That's the bottom line. You coud easily spend more than the asking price fixing it and you go down that route you'll have spent more money in total than the cost of buying a really good example in the first place.
There could potentially be so much else wrong with that particurlar car - and the person selling it - I'd dismiss it as not even worth looking at unless you can get it for peanuts and have the ability and enthusiasm to repair it yourself.
If you can't test drive the car then you can't even check if it handles, steers & brakes properly either. You could get the gearbox problem fixed only to find a host of other problems which you couldn't have found as you couldn't test drive it-the suspension could be worn out & the steering rack may have excessive free play etc.
Everybody's car is the best when they are selling it-not many people are going to describe their cars as a clapped out wreck that's ready for the scrapyard
There are plenty of XJ's out there so don't settle for the first one you come across. Late model high-mileage examples can be good, as the late-model XJ's had many of the V8 engine problems sorted by then & the high mileage will keep the price sensible.
Also, a high mileage car will most probably have spent it's life on long runs with a fully warmed-up engine, which is the best treatment for a car & engine. Low mileage cars will have only done short journeys with lots of cold starts & not many chances for the engine to warm up fully-that's the worst treatment for an engine & especially for a large car with a big engine like the XJ-it has a lot of fluids that need properly warming up on long runs.
You really don't want to saddle yourself with a non-running 'project' car, as there are plenty of decent XJ's out there that can be driven. If the car you're looking at has a fault which the seller says is easy & cheap to put right, you have to ask yourself the question why haven't they sorted out the problem themselves before advertising the car to prospective customers.
People sell cars for the following reasons:
1) They are bored & want a change of vehicle
2) They are broke & need the cash (In which case, could they afford to have serviced it properly?)
3) The car still runs but is on the verge of an expensive failure & the owner is getting rid of it!
Take your time & wait for a decent XJ-you'll know instinctively when 'your' car arrives with your name on it
Everybody's car is the best when they are selling it-not many people are going to describe their cars as a clapped out wreck that's ready for the scrapyard
There are plenty of XJ's out there so don't settle for the first one you come across. Late model high-mileage examples can be good, as the late-model XJ's had many of the V8 engine problems sorted by then & the high mileage will keep the price sensible.
Also, a high mileage car will most probably have spent it's life on long runs with a fully warmed-up engine, which is the best treatment for a car & engine. Low mileage cars will have only done short journeys with lots of cold starts & not many chances for the engine to warm up fully-that's the worst treatment for an engine & especially for a large car with a big engine like the XJ-it has a lot of fluids that need properly warming up on long runs.
You really don't want to saddle yourself with a non-running 'project' car, as there are plenty of decent XJ's out there that can be driven. If the car you're looking at has a fault which the seller says is easy & cheap to put right, you have to ask yourself the question why haven't they sorted out the problem themselves before advertising the car to prospective customers.
People sell cars for the following reasons:
1) They are bored & want a change of vehicle
2) They are broke & need the cash (In which case, could they afford to have serviced it properly?)
3) The car still runs but is on the verge of an expensive failure & the owner is getting rid of it!
Take your time & wait for a decent XJ-you'll know instinctively when 'your' car arrives with your name on it
Also, a high mileage car will most probably have spent it's life on long runs with a fully warmed-up engine, which is the best treatment for a car & engine. Low mileage cars will have only done short journeys with lots of cold starts & not many chances for the engine to warm up fully-that's the worst treatment for an engine & especially for a large car with a big engine like the XJ-it has a lot of fluids that need properly warming up on long runs.
there are other reasons that a car has low mileage and has not not only done short journeys.
i have more than one car, i use my snotter for the short journies and spread all my other trips out between the other cars, the minimum trip i do in the "good cars" is 30 miles, and that is each way. i take it in turns to use each car?
Why do you think low mileage cars only go on short journeys, i think you could possibly change "short" journeys, to "fewer" journeys
Lester
A low mileage can mean that the vehicle has either had regular short journeys with a predominantly cold engine, or only used once a week/fortnight for a longer run with a hot engine.
Neither of those useage styles is as good as a regular daily useage pattern that allows the engine to fully warm up every day.
I have 4 cars (Bentley Turbo R, Jaguar XJR & 2 BMW's) which all have different useage patterns & the car in the best mechanical condition is the one used daily for medium/longer runs where the engine warms up fully.
The cars which only get used once a week-even if it's a good long thrash to warm it up fully-usually end up with surface rust on the discs which needs cleaning off each week by hard braking. If left unused for too long then it starts to pit the discs, especially in the cooler damper winter months.
Daily useage also keeps the battery at near full charge-leave it for a week unused & some of the capacity will be lost depending on the amount of residual current drain from alarm systems etc. I can't quote exact percentage capacity loss as all cars are different in that respect-but there will inevitably be some capacity loss.
The fact remains that daily use-or very regular use-with a warmed up engine is by far the best method of keeping a car mechanically healthy. Some years ago, BMW conducted an endurance test on an E30 325i by driving it continuously around a track with teams of drivers, stopping only for scheduled services & oil/filter changes at the required times.
After a million miles the engine was stripped down & all the mechanical tolerances were found to be still within the manufacturers original specifications.
With a low mileage vehicle you don't know whether the previous owner has done frequent short trips on a cold engine or weekly trips on a hot engine. My advice was aimed at someone who is buying a car & doesn't know it's previous history, so may make a judgement based on the vehicle mileage.
On balance of probabilities, a car with a high mileage could only have accumulated that level of mileage by doing regular medium/long trips-so it will have spent the greater proportion of it's time with a hot engine.
For a novice buyer looking at an attractive low mileage car-they don't know whether that mileage has been accumulated by regular short trips on a cold engine, or weekly trips on a hot engine.
The weekly trip/hot engine is better than daily trip/cold engine-but regular daily use with a hot engine is still the best way to treat a car-providing it's serviced properly. Therefore the higher mileage car with a good service history-using 'inverse logic', could be assumed to be the better choice.
My advice is aimed at novice buyers-not at those who already run their own vehicles according to their own personal philosophies.
The more you use a car, the better it gets
Neither of those useage styles is as good as a regular daily useage pattern that allows the engine to fully warm up every day.
I have 4 cars (Bentley Turbo R, Jaguar XJR & 2 BMW's) which all have different useage patterns & the car in the best mechanical condition is the one used daily for medium/longer runs where the engine warms up fully.
The cars which only get used once a week-even if it's a good long thrash to warm it up fully-usually end up with surface rust on the discs which needs cleaning off each week by hard braking. If left unused for too long then it starts to pit the discs, especially in the cooler damper winter months.
Daily useage also keeps the battery at near full charge-leave it for a week unused & some of the capacity will be lost depending on the amount of residual current drain from alarm systems etc. I can't quote exact percentage capacity loss as all cars are different in that respect-but there will inevitably be some capacity loss.
The fact remains that daily use-or very regular use-with a warmed up engine is by far the best method of keeping a car mechanically healthy. Some years ago, BMW conducted an endurance test on an E30 325i by driving it continuously around a track with teams of drivers, stopping only for scheduled services & oil/filter changes at the required times.
After a million miles the engine was stripped down & all the mechanical tolerances were found to be still within the manufacturers original specifications.
With a low mileage vehicle you don't know whether the previous owner has done frequent short trips on a cold engine or weekly trips on a hot engine. My advice was aimed at someone who is buying a car & doesn't know it's previous history, so may make a judgement based on the vehicle mileage.
On balance of probabilities, a car with a high mileage could only have accumulated that level of mileage by doing regular medium/long trips-so it will have spent the greater proportion of it's time with a hot engine.
For a novice buyer looking at an attractive low mileage car-they don't know whether that mileage has been accumulated by regular short trips on a cold engine, or weekly trips on a hot engine.
The weekly trip/hot engine is better than daily trip/cold engine-but regular daily use with a hot engine is still the best way to treat a car-providing it's serviced properly. Therefore the higher mileage car with a good service history-using 'inverse logic', could be assumed to be the better choice.
My advice is aimed at novice buyers-not at those who already run their own vehicles according to their own personal philosophies.
The more you use a car, the better it gets
Hmm It seems to be common opinion that a well maintained well serviced car is a must. Not sure if the advice to buy a well maintained well serviced car with higher mileage is better than the a well maintained car with low mileage? If you are a buyer faced with two similar cars with vastly different mileage and the history is unknown. I'm not sure if anyone would choose the higher mileage car. There are other mechanical parts that would need to be factored in, shocks, supercharger, gearbox, etc. etc.
If the car is unknown, then surely the lower mileage car is a better overall long term prospect?
In my case I travel approximately 120 miles a day 6 days a week.. 60 in the smart car to and from work up and down the m11. In the evenings I travel to my girlfriends which is a similar mileage trip with 50\50 motorway and town. I have3 x XJRs one is a donor and is sorned. I have a chimaera, a grand Cherokee and a Vivaro van.
I tend to use one xjr for 3 nights and the other for 2 nights. The chimaera goes out once a week any weather ( usually) and I drive it for about 4 hours. The Cherokee is used over the weekends and bad weather and is the shorter journey car, the van gets used occasionally. So all my cars get used at least once a week and the minimum mileage is about 100 miles per car, and that works for me. I service my cars regularly and check oil and waters weekly.
An average mileage car is 10,000 miles a year, approx 200 a week, possibly, like some people I know who work in London and go home once a month. So they do about 10 miles a day for 3 weeks and then do a 500 mile round trip home on the fourth week then come back to work in London, which is about 700 miles in total, not high by any means, but it shows not all is as it seems.
I don't know if I am blinkered, but whenever I look to buy a car, but I try to buy the best lower mileage example I can find, I would not even consider a higher mileage version.
Lester
If the car is unknown, then surely the lower mileage car is a better overall long term prospect?
In my case I travel approximately 120 miles a day 6 days a week.. 60 in the smart car to and from work up and down the m11. In the evenings I travel to my girlfriends which is a similar mileage trip with 50\50 motorway and town. I have3 x XJRs one is a donor and is sorned. I have a chimaera, a grand Cherokee and a Vivaro van.
I tend to use one xjr for 3 nights and the other for 2 nights. The chimaera goes out once a week any weather ( usually) and I drive it for about 4 hours. The Cherokee is used over the weekends and bad weather and is the shorter journey car, the van gets used occasionally. So all my cars get used at least once a week and the minimum mileage is about 100 miles per car, and that works for me. I service my cars regularly and check oil and waters weekly.
An average mileage car is 10,000 miles a year, approx 200 a week, possibly, like some people I know who work in London and go home once a month. So they do about 10 miles a day for 3 weeks and then do a 500 mile round trip home on the fourth week then come back to work in London, which is about 700 miles in total, not high by any means, but it shows not all is as it seems.
I don't know if I am blinkered, but whenever I look to buy a car, but I try to buy the best lower mileage example I can find, I would not even consider a higher mileage version.
Lester
Edited by lestershaw on Tuesday 6th November 22:33
Given equivalent prices, I've always gone for the younger high mileage car rather than the older low mileage car. My Jag has 150k on the clock, one of the BM's has 175k on it & the other 130k. I once bought a BM with 142k on it & then px'd it 4 years later with 237k on the clock & still working fine.
Having said that though, the most important factor is the overall vehicle condition when you inspect it, test drive it etc. Service history is a good indicator of how well the previous owners cared for the vehicle.
On balance though & even with good service histories, I'd still prefer the car that has not done continuous short journeys & lots of cold starts. The first few seconds after a cold start are when the most engine wear occurs as the oil has not had chance to circulate fully before the loads are being applied by the bearings etc.
Using the 'inverse logic' theory again, it could be argued that a low mileage car is coming up to the point where it will require many parts replacing at major services, whereas the high mileage car has already made it to this point & had the new parts fitted ready for it's next 100,000 miles etc
You could also say that the fact a car has reached a high mileage could also be interpreted as a sign of it's mechanical dependency & consistency if it's still in fine working condition.
If a car has a very high mileage that's been done on motorways for example, then it could be argued that the gearbox hasn't done many changes as it's sat in top gear most of the time. The clutch won't have been used much on motorways either. Autobox multi-plate clutches won't have been used much. The suspension & steering won't have taken much of a pounding by sitting in a mostly straight line on a relatively flat road as well.
Compare this with low mileage town driving-lots of gear changes, lots of clutch useage, lots of steering movement around corners & when parking, lots of suspension movement when going over awful potholed town roads, kerbs, speed bumps etc. Low engine speed in traffic jams so battery not being fully charged by the slow-moving alternator etc. Lots of starter motor useage with frequent short journeys on a cold engine.
You get the picture
Having said that though, the most important factor is the overall vehicle condition when you inspect it, test drive it etc. Service history is a good indicator of how well the previous owners cared for the vehicle.
On balance though & even with good service histories, I'd still prefer the car that has not done continuous short journeys & lots of cold starts. The first few seconds after a cold start are when the most engine wear occurs as the oil has not had chance to circulate fully before the loads are being applied by the bearings etc.
Using the 'inverse logic' theory again, it could be argued that a low mileage car is coming up to the point where it will require many parts replacing at major services, whereas the high mileage car has already made it to this point & had the new parts fitted ready for it's next 100,000 miles etc
You could also say that the fact a car has reached a high mileage could also be interpreted as a sign of it's mechanical dependency & consistency if it's still in fine working condition.
If a car has a very high mileage that's been done on motorways for example, then it could be argued that the gearbox hasn't done many changes as it's sat in top gear most of the time. The clutch won't have been used much on motorways either. Autobox multi-plate clutches won't have been used much. The suspension & steering won't have taken much of a pounding by sitting in a mostly straight line on a relatively flat road as well.
Compare this with low mileage town driving-lots of gear changes, lots of clutch useage, lots of steering movement around corners & when parking, lots of suspension movement when going over awful potholed town roads, kerbs, speed bumps etc. Low engine speed in traffic jams so battery not being fully charged by the slow-moving alternator etc. Lots of starter motor useage with frequent short journeys on a cold engine.
You get the picture
I guess the safest 'neutral' advice to offer is for the buyer to chose a vehicle that's working fully, can be test driven on the road, has a good service history & is mechanically ok when test driven-as in no clatters, excessive exhaust smoke, steering pull, brake shudder, engine overheating etc.
No need to settle for a car with defects when there are plenty more out there in proper working condition-especially important given the various issues with the V8 Jag XJ's.
Taking into account the fact that the early Jag V8's had numerous mechanical weak spots which were addressed on the later models (Nikasil blocks, plastic secondary tensioners, plastic impeller water pumps etc), the risk of buying a problemmatical V8 can be reduced by looking for as late a model year example as possible-preferably from 2001 model year onwards.
This means that you may have to settle for a higher mileage example to keep the price within budget-but given the risks of mechanical maladies with early V8 Jags, it may be safer to consider a high mileage 2001/2002 model rather than a low mileage 1997/1998 model-unless the early example is specifically advertised as having had the Nikasil block, plastic secondary tensioners, plastic-impeller water pump & throttle body issues sorted & the later metal replacement parts fitted etc.
How's that for neutrality & unbiassed buying advice
No need to settle for a car with defects when there are plenty more out there in proper working condition-especially important given the various issues with the V8 Jag XJ's.
Taking into account the fact that the early Jag V8's had numerous mechanical weak spots which were addressed on the later models (Nikasil blocks, plastic secondary tensioners, plastic impeller water pumps etc), the risk of buying a problemmatical V8 can be reduced by looking for as late a model year example as possible-preferably from 2001 model year onwards.
This means that you may have to settle for a higher mileage example to keep the price within budget-but given the risks of mechanical maladies with early V8 Jags, it may be safer to consider a high mileage 2001/2002 model rather than a low mileage 1997/1998 model-unless the early example is specifically advertised as having had the Nikasil block, plastic secondary tensioners, plastic-impeller water pump & throttle body issues sorted & the later metal replacement parts fitted etc.
How's that for neutrality & unbiassed buying advice
pretty good,
of the two low mileage ones i have, the 62,000 miles 1998 has had all the issues you mentioned done and more, polybushes, arb, gearbox oil change, diff seals done, dinitrol sealed, new turbo charger etc etc.
the 72,000 mile one did not have any of that done, so as it was low mileage and in great nick, and the best colour scheme black on black. i had the work done myself, all the issues you mentioned and more, it cost me approx £3.5k to have all the work done, now i think i have a fantastic base for long term ownership, and shared with the other jag i reckon i have 2 fantastic cars which have cost me in total around £9k. The Nikasil issue should have also been either resolved by 2012 or its probably no longer an issue.
of the two low mileage ones i have, the 62,000 miles 1998 has had all the issues you mentioned done and more, polybushes, arb, gearbox oil change, diff seals done, dinitrol sealed, new turbo charger etc etc.
the 72,000 mile one did not have any of that done, so as it was low mileage and in great nick, and the best colour scheme black on black. i had the work done myself, all the issues you mentioned and more, it cost me approx £3.5k to have all the work done, now i think i have a fantastic base for long term ownership, and shared with the other jag i reckon i have 2 fantastic cars which have cost me in total around £9k. The Nikasil issue should have also been either resolved by 2012 or its probably no longer an issue.
No worries about hijacking the thread. It's always good to get different thoughts on a subject. It was always my intention to get a bag in a drive away condition, I just missed that it needed trailering in the advert. There are plenty of cars out there and my budget is up to 4k. Will keep looking.
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