S-Type Petrol or Diesel?
Discussion
Thinking of buying an S-Type in spring (got a convertible to sell!), I'd really like an auto S-type probably spending £7k for one with about 60k miles...
My driving profile is
Car allowance + 21p a mile + tax reclaim makes it up to about 35p a mile (so fuel recovery at 30ish mpg upwards)
I do about 12-14k miles a year of which 90% is motorways in big chunks (150-180 mile trips)
I like the Idea of the diesel, 40+mpg 15k service intervals etc but worry about the ticking timebomb that is a modern diesel engine.
ManMaths indicates I could run a petrol, just not have quite so much money left over from the mileage to cover the maintainance/servicing/tyres
SO my question is if I save money on fuel, do I need to put the saving in an account ready for a really big bill? or are the diesels largely very reliable (I anticipate keeping it from about 60k miles until it drops dead, if thats an extra 100k miles then fine, if it's dead by 100k miles total it's not so good!)
Any thoughts from diesel owners (I know what the petrol guys will say, and I'm already having nasty thoughts about v8's)
My driving profile is
Car allowance + 21p a mile + tax reclaim makes it up to about 35p a mile (so fuel recovery at 30ish mpg upwards)
I do about 12-14k miles a year of which 90% is motorways in big chunks (150-180 mile trips)
I like the Idea of the diesel, 40+mpg 15k service intervals etc but worry about the ticking timebomb that is a modern diesel engine.
ManMaths indicates I could run a petrol, just not have quite so much money left over from the mileage to cover the maintainance/servicing/tyres
SO my question is if I save money on fuel, do I need to put the saving in an account ready for a really big bill? or are the diesels largely very reliable (I anticipate keeping it from about 60k miles until it drops dead, if thats an extra 100k miles then fine, if it's dead by 100k miles total it's not so good!)
Any thoughts from diesel owners (I know what the petrol guys will say, and I'm already having nasty thoughts about v8's)
I've had 2 diesels, the first was a 04 SE & the second was a 56 Sport. Both mechanically were 100% reliable. I had a heater valve die on the first & a bush in the rear suspension & a window switch in the second.
They are scary complex cars, especially in diesel form. I always had an extended warranty. The suspension, especially the rear is complex as well & is why they trounce the german equivalents for ride/handling quality. These buushes can get expensive, especially on neglected versions. They are hard on brakes as well.
I never got 40mpg from either, but got 35MPG everywhere. The 3l petrol is typically around 24-28MPG.
If you're keeping it then it is essential that the auto box fluid is changed, failed boxes at 100k or so are quite common otherwise.
They are scary complex cars, especially in diesel form. I always had an extended warranty. The suspension, especially the rear is complex as well & is why they trounce the german equivalents for ride/handling quality. These buushes can get expensive, especially on neglected versions. They are hard on brakes as well.
I never got 40mpg from either, but got 35MPG everywhere. The 3l petrol is typically around 24-28MPG.
If you're keeping it then it is essential that the auto box fluid is changed, failed boxes at 100k or so are quite common otherwise.
Love my S-type diesel but still hanker after a STR!
I believe that the engines have no major 'nightmare' faults like many others (same engine in Disco3> and some of these have done intergalactic mileage) but do have to be looked after properly. Belt change at 105k isn't as cheap as some, either.
Mine's booked in for a gearbox oil change next week - again, not cheap!
Smooth, torquey engine (but not that quick in standard form), 37mpg overall and a delightful place to be inside.
I believe that the engines have no major 'nightmare' faults like many others (same engine in Disco3> and some of these have done intergalactic mileage) but do have to be looked after properly. Belt change at 105k isn't as cheap as some, either.
Mine's booked in for a gearbox oil change next week - again, not cheap!
Smooth, torquey engine (but not that quick in standard form), 37mpg overall and a delightful place to be inside.
littleredrooster said:
Love my S-type diesel but still hanker after a STR!
I believe that the engines have no major 'nightmare' faults like many others (same engine in Disco3> and some of these have done intergalactic mileage) but do have to be looked after properly. Belt change at 105k isn't as cheap as some, either.
Mine's booked in for a gearbox oil change next week - again, not cheap!
Smooth, torquey engine (but not that quick in standard form), 37mpg overall and a delightful place to be inside.
Sounds perfect! is the sport still comfortable or is the SE the spec of choice?I believe that the engines have no major 'nightmare' faults like many others (same engine in Disco3> and some of these have done intergalactic mileage) but do have to be looked after properly. Belt change at 105k isn't as cheap as some, either.
Mine's booked in for a gearbox oil change next week - again, not cheap!
Smooth, torquey engine (but not that quick in standard form), 37mpg overall and a delightful place to be inside.
next question I guess is how much home maintenance is possible with access to a lift/workshop, and a friend with full dealer level diagnostics?
I gather the normal servicing is oil/filter then air filter alternate, cam belt every 105k (hearing c£400-500) and gearbox service every 60k at £160? does this seem reasonable?
am I looking at suspension bush renewel frequently?
Some days I wished I hadn't sold my 3.0 omeaga, I guess the S type will be even better.
SV8Predator said:
tr7v8 said:
Both mechanically were 100% reliable.
I had a heater valve die on the first & a bush in the rear suspension & a window switch in the second.
If that's what you call 100% reliable. . .I had a heater valve die on the first & a bush in the rear suspension & a window switch in the second.
pherlopolus said:
littleredrooster said:
Love my S-type diesel but still hanker after a STR!
I believe that the engines have no major 'nightmare' faults like many others (same engine in Disco3> and some of these have done intergalactic mileage) but do have to be looked after properly. Belt change at 105k isn't as cheap as some, either.
Mine's booked in for a gearbox oil change next week - again, not cheap!
Smooth, torquey engine (but not that quick in standard form), 37mpg overall and a delightful place to be inside.
Sounds perfect! is the sport still comfortable or is the SE the spec of choice?I believe that the engines have no major 'nightmare' faults like many others (same engine in Disco3> and some of these have done intergalactic mileage) but do have to be looked after properly. Belt change at 105k isn't as cheap as some, either.
Mine's booked in for a gearbox oil change next week - again, not cheap!
Smooth, torquey engine (but not that quick in standard form), 37mpg overall and a delightful place to be inside.
next question I guess is how much home maintenance is possible with access to a lift/workshop, and a friend with full dealer level diagnostics?
I gather the normal servicing is oil/filter then air filter alternate, cam belt every 105k (hearing c£400-500) and gearbox service every 60k at £160? does this seem reasonable?
am I looking at suspension bush renewel frequently?
Some days I wished I hadn't sold my 3.0 omeaga, I guess the S type will be even better.
Yes you can do most servicing yourself. Bear in mind it is every 15K.
Pardon me for butting in here but I couldn't stop myself......
You say you might not cover your costs if you bought a petrol. I've got a 4.2SE on a 52 plate, now worth maybe 2.5k. A late 4.2 car with low miles could still be found for say 5k.
Now I agree that the 2.7 is a fine motor but it's not a V8 (and this is a PH forum!). Mine returns high twenties easily on the motorway, has nothing expensive or wierd under the bonnet (a nice chain rather than a belt) and is still a great drive even at nearly 120,000 miles. Service intervals are 12,000 and you don't ned a degree in engineering to look after it.
So that leaves you at least 2k in the kitty and a 300bhp motor. That's my version of manmaths anyway!
You say you might not cover your costs if you bought a petrol. I've got a 4.2SE on a 52 plate, now worth maybe 2.5k. A late 4.2 car with low miles could still be found for say 5k.
Now I agree that the 2.7 is a fine motor but it's not a V8 (and this is a PH forum!). Mine returns high twenties easily on the motorway, has nothing expensive or wierd under the bonnet (a nice chain rather than a belt) and is still a great drive even at nearly 120,000 miles. Service intervals are 12,000 and you don't ned a degree in engineering to look after it.
So that leaves you at least 2k in the kitty and a 300bhp motor. That's my version of manmaths anyway!
Edited by LFB531 on Saturday 12th January 18:00
Edited by LFB531 on Saturday 12th January 18:01
Edited by LFB531 on Saturday 12th January 18:01
My thoughts & why I didn't run a petrol (V6 or V8) is that the tank is quite small (63L I think) so the refill more often comes into the equation. I got a petrol card so fuel consumption as such didn't matter.
The diesel is pretty quick & the S isn't a light car, around 1800kg, heavier than an XJ, so the torque helps. Would I run a diesel now they are older? Not sure, there is a lot to go wrong although they are reputedly pretty reliable.
Not driven an XJ so that never figured either, but even an S can be difficult to park because of its size.
The diesel is pretty quick & the S isn't a light car, around 1800kg, heavier than an XJ, so the torque helps. Would I run a diesel now they are older? Not sure, there is a lot to go wrong although they are reputedly pretty reliable.
Not driven an XJ so that never figured either, but even an S can be difficult to park because of its size.
LFB531 said:
Pardon me for butting in here......
You say you might not cover your costs if you bought a petrol. I've got a 4.2SE on a 52 plate, now worth maybe 2.5k. A late 4.2 car with low miles could still be found for say 5k.
Now I agree that the 2.7 is a fine motor but it's not a V8 (and this is a PH forum!). Mine returns high twenties easily on the motorway, has nothing expensive or wierd under the bonnet (a nice chain rather than a belt) and is still a great drive even at nearly 120,000 miles. Service intervals are 12,000 and you don't ned a degree in engineering to look after it.
So that leaves you at least 2k in the kitty and a 300bhp motor. That's my version of manmaths anyway!
I like your thinking, but I wouldnt have 2k in the kitty, I'd just have a car worth less.You say you might not cover your costs if you bought a petrol. I've got a 4.2SE on a 52 plate, now worth maybe 2.5k. A late 4.2 car with low miles could still be found for say 5k.
Now I agree that the 2.7 is a fine motor but it's not a V8 (and this is a PH forum!). Mine returns high twenties easily on the motorway, has nothing expensive or wierd under the bonnet (a nice chain rather than a belt) and is still a great drive even at nearly 120,000 miles. Service intervals are 12,000 and you don't ned a degree in engineering to look after it.
So that leaves you at least 2k in the kitty and a 300bhp motor. That's my version of manmaths anyway!
Edited by LFB531 on Saturday 12th January 18:00
Because of the way most (if not all and some running costs) of my fuel costs are recovered by mileage, the outlay is separate from the running costs, and the running costs being recovered (easily) is the difference between having it and having a diesel (or 2.0tfsi) golf instead, I simply cant afford to be out of pocket just to have a v8 :_(
I had a 3.0v6 omega that did mid/high 20's and it just felt like I was forever putting fuel in it (and this was pre £1+ a litre).
I've heard of people saying mid 30's on a run for both the 3.0 and 4.2, and to be honest if that was the case it wouldnt cost significantly more than my golf, but sub 30mpg is just an emotional barrier I'm not willing go through at the moment.
I've got a couple of months to think more about manmaths and running costs (and do my spreadsheets
), and I know that 1 bad fault on the diesel would wipe out any savings on fuel, so need to way up all the pros and constr7v8 said:
My thoughts & why I didn't run a petrol (V6 or V8) is that the tank is quite small (63L I think) so the refill more often comes into the equation. I got a petrol card so fuel consumption as such didn't matter. Not driven an XJ so that never figured either, but even an S can be difficult to park because of its size.
I need to be able to do at least 330 miles on a tank! (Telford to Bracknell return and hotel to office) our sharan would do 500+ on a tank which was nice...Size is a non issue, have had a sharan, an omega, e34 525 and a vw camper and at 19 (long time ago) I was driving a 5.6t tipper lorry around in some rather tight spaces.
LFB531 said:
...Now I agree that the 2.7 is a fine motor but it's not a V8 (and this is a PH forum!). Mine returns high twenties easily on the motorway, ...
If you want to compare like-for-like, then my 2.7d returned 44mpg on the 400-mile trundle from Rugby to NW Scotland last September. The 'overall' figure I quoted is truly overall - shopping trips, town use, cold starts. Bet the V8 is nowhere near high 20s under those circumstances.And yes - having said all that, I still fancy an 'R'
pherlopolus said:
Sounds perfect! is the sport still comfortable or is the SE the spec of choice?
next question I guess is how much home maintenance is possible with access to a lift/workshop, and a friend with full dealer level diagnostics?
I gather the normal servicing is oil/filter then air filter alternate, cam belt every 105k (hearing c£400-500) and gearbox service every 60k at £160? does this seem reasonable?
am I looking at suspension bush renewel frequently?
Some days I wished I hadn't sold my 3.0 omeaga, I guess the S type will be even better.
S-Type is a bit like a modern Omega, but with much better ride and refinement.next question I guess is how much home maintenance is possible with access to a lift/workshop, and a friend with full dealer level diagnostics?
I gather the normal servicing is oil/filter then air filter alternate, cam belt every 105k (hearing c£400-500) and gearbox service every 60k at £160? does this seem reasonable?
am I looking at suspension bush renewel frequently?
Some days I wished I hadn't sold my 3.0 omeaga, I guess the S type will be even better.
You're about right with the servicing stuff - dead easy DIY, other than the diagnostics. If you get a late one (mine's an 07), none of the Ford-based diagnostic kit works. I had the devil's own job trying to just get a new remote fob programmed as very few places have the latest Jag kit - my mate's an auto-elec and he won't buy it as it's close to £20k!!
Gearbox oil change is c.£400 - mine is being done next Tuesday at Midland Auto Transmissions and is recommended at no more than 80k mile intervals.
Mine's still on original bushes (AFAIK) and they look and feel OK, although it is on its third diff! Diffs on late ones are troublesome, make sure there's some kind of warranty cover.
littleredrooster said:
You're about right with the servicing stuff - dead easy DIY, other than the diagnostics. If you get a late one (mine's an 07), none of the Ford-based diagnostic kit works. I had the devil's own job trying to just get a new remote fob programmed as very few places have the latest Jag kit - my mate's an auto-elec and he won't buy it as it's close to £20k!!
Gearbox oil change is c.£400 - mine is being done next Tuesday at Midland Auto Transmissions and is recommended at no more than 80k mile intervals.
Mine's still on original bushes (AFAIK) and they look and feel OK, although it is on its third diff! Diffs on late ones are troublesome, make sure there's some kind of warranty cover.
is MAT in Tamworth? Think I used them for my Omega...Gearbox oil change is c.£400 - mine is being done next Tuesday at Midland Auto Transmissions and is recommended at no more than 80k mile intervals.
Mine's still on original bushes (AFAIK) and they look and feel OK, although it is on its third diff! Diffs on late ones are troublesome, make sure there's some kind of warranty cover.
I think I'm good for JLR diagnostics, I can remember my mate moaning when he bought it.
I'm looking at 55 60 plate ones, is that late? I know it's post facelift (all diesels are?)
Are there any must have options? I'd ideally want phone/mp3 input...
I hear that adaptive cruise is not as good as it could be, is SAT NAV a must have?
My wife has ran a late S-type V8 for the last 2.5 years and it hasn't missed a beat. She uses it for work (20 miles return trip), ferrying our 4 year old around, shopping etc and it has averaged 24mpg over that period. On a long trip down to Dorset fully loaded, it managed 34mpg for that journey. Pretty impressive.
ETA it has a 69.5 litre tank.
ETA it has a 69.5 litre tank.
Edited by V88Dicky on Sunday 13th January 12:15
pherlopolus said:
is MAT in Tamworth? Think I used them for my Omega...
I think I'm good for JLR diagnostics, I can remember my mate moaning when he bought it.
I'm looking at 55 60 plate ones, is that late? I know it's post facelift (all diesels are?)
Are there any must have options? I'd ideally want phone/mp3 input...
I hear that adaptive cruise is not as good as it could be, is SAT NAV a must have?
MAT are Kettering. Just been watching the weather forecast and hoping that the snow isn't too deep!I think I'm good for JLR diagnostics, I can remember my mate moaning when he bought it.
I'm looking at 55 60 plate ones, is that late? I know it's post facelift (all diesels are?)
Are there any must have options? I'd ideally want phone/mp3 input...
I hear that adaptive cruise is not as good as it could be, is SAT NAV a must have?
Diffs gave trouble on 06-56-07 cars after they changed supplier, apparently.
Options are a personal thing, but I have heard that the Jag bluetooth stuff isn't that good. Mine doesn't have it, despite it being in the advert. Standard sound system is way ahead of my previous E46.
Not sure that the S-Type was offered with Adaptive cruise? Mine's ordinary.
My last one, had Jaguar Voice, Jaguar Bluetooth, Nav front & rear reversing sensors, HID lights.
Out of that BT is good but is very fussy with phones, my Blackberry Curve was 100% & fantastic, others Motorola & Sony were very cranky. Jaguar voice is good but wouldn't have paid the stupid money it was new. Sat Nav is OK & better than say an equiv. BMW or Merc but the latest Tom Tom will run rings around it. HID is not worth it, the previous one was conventional lights & I noted no difference.
Adapative Cruise Control is an option but a pretty rare one. That &garage opener were the only two options mine didn't have. The old couple that ordered it must have been a salesman delight!
If you give Jaguar the Vin they can give you the build details.
Out of that BT is good but is very fussy with phones, my Blackberry Curve was 100% & fantastic, others Motorola & Sony were very cranky. Jaguar voice is good but wouldn't have paid the stupid money it was new. Sat Nav is OK & better than say an equiv. BMW or Merc but the latest Tom Tom will run rings around it. HID is not worth it, the previous one was conventional lights & I noted no difference.
Adapative Cruise Control is an option but a pretty rare one. That &garage opener were the only two options mine didn't have. The old couple that ordered it must have been a salesman delight!
If you give Jaguar the Vin they can give you the build details.
pherlopolus said:
Thinking of buying an S-Type in spring (got a convertible to sell!), I'd really like an auto S-type probably spending £7k for one with about 60k miles...
pherlopolus said:
out of interest have you looked at similar era XJ's?
I just bought this XJ for under your budget
Jaguar XJ6 3.0 V6 SOVEREIGN 4DR AUTO 2005
59k miles
Plenty of spec including Jaguar premium sound system, which is rather bloody good, it has to be said
Bi-Xenon headlights are great and the ride on the 19s is much better than I expected
Heated seats are lovely and looking forward to trying the heated front windscreen over the next few weeks
3.0 V6 feels up to the job of motorway cruiser, a V8 would be have been nice but I'll be putting 25k-30k miles on this car next year.
It really is a wonderfully lovely thing. Interior and exterior are spotless and the book is full of main dealer stamps.
Might not be all plain sailing though... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
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