XKR test drive. What am I missing?
Discussion
New member, so hello all...
So for a fair while, and involving a certain amount of family history, I've had a hankering for a Jag, specifically an X100 XKR, to run as a "special" car alongside my E91 320D (remapped and suspension tweaks).
A local dealership had a 55 plate 4.2 XKR in, so I arranged to have a poke round it, and take it for a test drive. The car looked lovely, and is in pretty good nick, and seemed to drive well enough, and didn't demonstrate any of the flaws that elderly Jags seem to have.
But I was utterly non-plussed by driving it. Other than being a nice place to sit (and even then, I didn't feel like I could get the seat low enough), it didn't feel especially quick; other than the whine of the supercharger when pushed, and the odd quiet burble on the overrun, it didn't sound special - I wasn't really aware of any innate "V8ness". My Beemer feels sharper in the handling department - the Jag felt like it was attempting to control a LOT of mass (I guess it is!). I liked the way it didn't feel like a big car to drive, and the ride was a bit better than my car (but still quite jittery - 20" wheels not helping I suspect), but the steering was rather numb. Overall it was simply uninvolving point & shoot.
I think partly it's down to the slushbox - I've never driven an auto I actually liked, and whilst the box on the Jag wasn't intrusive in any way, I think the lack of interaction to make the car go could be a large part of the issue, but driving the thing just didn't feel like an occasion.
Walking back home, and trying to mull over my reactions, I couln't help but feel that if I wanted to take a car for a strop across the moors, and had the 320d or the XKR to choose from, I'd just be more likely to pick the 320D, and that just seems SOO wrong. In present company it feels rather dirty to be admitting that a 200bhp 4 pot oilburner is more attractive than a 400bhp supercharged V8 GT...
So what am I missing that makes it feel such a let down to have got behind the wheel of the car of my dreams?
Cheers!
Jon
So for a fair while, and involving a certain amount of family history, I've had a hankering for a Jag, specifically an X100 XKR, to run as a "special" car alongside my E91 320D (remapped and suspension tweaks).
A local dealership had a 55 plate 4.2 XKR in, so I arranged to have a poke round it, and take it for a test drive. The car looked lovely, and is in pretty good nick, and seemed to drive well enough, and didn't demonstrate any of the flaws that elderly Jags seem to have.
But I was utterly non-plussed by driving it. Other than being a nice place to sit (and even then, I didn't feel like I could get the seat low enough), it didn't feel especially quick; other than the whine of the supercharger when pushed, and the odd quiet burble on the overrun, it didn't sound special - I wasn't really aware of any innate "V8ness". My Beemer feels sharper in the handling department - the Jag felt like it was attempting to control a LOT of mass (I guess it is!). I liked the way it didn't feel like a big car to drive, and the ride was a bit better than my car (but still quite jittery - 20" wheels not helping I suspect), but the steering was rather numb. Overall it was simply uninvolving point & shoot.
I think partly it's down to the slushbox - I've never driven an auto I actually liked, and whilst the box on the Jag wasn't intrusive in any way, I think the lack of interaction to make the car go could be a large part of the issue, but driving the thing just didn't feel like an occasion.
Walking back home, and trying to mull over my reactions, I couln't help but feel that if I wanted to take a car for a strop across the moors, and had the 320d or the XKR to choose from, I'd just be more likely to pick the 320D, and that just seems SOO wrong. In present company it feels rather dirty to be admitting that a 200bhp 4 pot oilburner is more attractive than a 400bhp supercharged V8 GT...
So what am I missing that makes it feel such a let down to have got behind the wheel of the car of my dreams?
Cheers!
Jon
Much more a cruiser than a back road specialist, so I believe. And fantastic though they look, I guess the 20 inch wheels don't help the ride, possibly the car's best asset given its competition. All said with no experience what-so-ever of the XKR.
However, I think know what you mean about the power, but I think it is very deceptive. I always thought my XJR never felt that quick, but a glance at the rate the speed is climbing and the fact it did not let up until really very naughty speeds did convince me otherwise.
I think the X100 XK is stunning, and seems to me to be getting better with age.
However, I think know what you mean about the power, but I think it is very deceptive. I always thought my XJR never felt that quick, but a glance at the rate the speed is climbing and the fact it did not let up until really very naughty speeds did convince me otherwise.
I think the X100 XK is stunning, and seems to me to be getting better with age.
Did I have it in sport mode - yup, after about 5 minutes, which did make a noticeable difference.
I went out for drive in my own car last night - started off doing the same route as the test drive, but then ended up just tagging more and more bits on (did about 50 miles in the end
. It became very obvious what was missing from the Jag within about 2 miles, and that was a manual gearbox. It's simply the extra thought, planning and action required to drive smoothly and quickly whilst having to stir the cogs and bounce up and down on the clutch pedal myself. Interaction, plain and simple!
I didn't "miss" the manual during the test drive, mostly because it was all so new/different, but ultimately it was what made it unsatsifying.
I take the point about it being a better cruiser than a thrasher, but to my understanding of what a "GT car" should be, it's the iron fist in a velvet glove thing. It's being able to cruise down to the Alps in pefect comfort (this it will do very well), but then to be able to turn into a lairy monster once you're there and destroy alpine passes in a cloud of burnt hydrocarbons and tyre smoke, and it's just gave no impression of being interested in that end of things.
I ended up watching the TWR racing vid on General Gassing when I got back last night. That demonstrated exactly what was missing! (not that I'd claim to have anything like that level of skill or commitment!)
I went out for drive in my own car last night - started off doing the same route as the test drive, but then ended up just tagging more and more bits on (did about 50 miles in the end
. It became very obvious what was missing from the Jag within about 2 miles, and that was a manual gearbox. It's simply the extra thought, planning and action required to drive smoothly and quickly whilst having to stir the cogs and bounce up and down on the clutch pedal myself. Interaction, plain and simple!I didn't "miss" the manual during the test drive, mostly because it was all so new/different, but ultimately it was what made it unsatsifying.
I take the point about it being a better cruiser than a thrasher, but to my understanding of what a "GT car" should be, it's the iron fist in a velvet glove thing. It's being able to cruise down to the Alps in pefect comfort (this it will do very well), but then to be able to turn into a lairy monster once you're there and destroy alpine passes in a cloud of burnt hydrocarbons and tyre smoke, and it's just gave no impression of being interested in that end of things.
I ended up watching the TWR racing vid on General Gassing when I got back last night. That demonstrated exactly what was missing! (not that I'd claim to have anything like that level of skill or commitment!)
Firstly, i dont think an XKR would ever make a good second car to a 320d. The XKR would make a good only car thats also used for weekend blasts or a good weekday car if you can afford the fuel.
However, i suspect that like my S Type R the car needs a custom exhaust to really sound the business.
Also, the sport button does very little. To really get engaged with the car you need to select the gears manually using the left side of the J gate. Slotting it into "3" will is usually adequate for most B roads (you can quite easily knock it down one more to 2nd if you happen across a hairpin)
You may be similar to me. I bought my S Type last September, but im bored. Its simply too heavy and too fast to really be enjoyed on a British b road (great for overtaking, mind)
However, i suspect that like my S Type R the car needs a custom exhaust to really sound the business.
Also, the sport button does very little. To really get engaged with the car you need to select the gears manually using the left side of the J gate. Slotting it into "3" will is usually adequate for most B roads (you can quite easily knock it down one more to 2nd if you happen across a hairpin)
You may be similar to me. I bought my S Type last September, but im bored. Its simply too heavy and too fast to really be enjoyed on a British b road (great for overtaking, mind)
Hey, its still 132 bhp/ton in the BMW vs 230bhp/ton in tha Jag. I thought that would make a fair old bit of difference! (although the Torque figures/ton are much closer, which is arguably more relevant for normal road use).
...and a year down the line, I'm yet to be convinced by the aftermarket springs and dampers - great on a smooth road, horrible at slow speed on poor tarmac!
As for it being old tech, that maybe true, but it's (almost) *affordable* old tech...!
...and a year down the line, I'm yet to be convinced by the aftermarket springs and dampers - great on a smooth road, horrible at slow speed on poor tarmac!
As for it being old tech, that maybe true, but it's (almost) *affordable* old tech...!
It's a GT cruiser not a sports car. I'm surprised Norman has not been along to sell the virtue's of his 600+ BHP XKR with manual gearbox though. Standard XKR suspension is soft especially after a few years, get it Powerflexed but sat on 18" wheels and you get a more pointable steer. Exhaust change is essential on an X100 if you want great sound. Better still get into a post 2006 Aluminium XKR, not manual but flappy paddles. That said a Jag is probably not for you 
they are all just GTs and don't make great B road racers.
they are all just GTs and don't make great B road racers.P700DEE said:
I'm surprised Norman has not been along to sell the virtue's of his 600+ BHP XKR with manual gearbox though.
Standard XKR suspension is soft especially after a few years, get it Powerflexed but sat on 18" wheels and you get a more pointable steer.
Here I amStandard XKR suspension is soft especially after a few years, get it Powerflexed but sat on 18" wheels and you get a more pointable steer.
Yes since I purchased my XKR I've been working on fitting a Manual gearbox that works in the XKR
Makes such a differance to the driving experiance, do contact me if interested, eMails are down at the moment so call 07860 558808
As mentioned Powerflex helps plus resetting the susspention settings, again I can arrange that
Another big help is fitting a Limited Slip Diff, that stops one of the rear wheels spinning then stting off the Traction Control that then cuts engine power
As P700DEE said, a lot more power can be got out of the engine although first let the car get what power you have onto the road
You'll never find the perfect car that does all things, for all men, all the time. No such thing exists.
With your buget you could buy a comfy barge for wafting, a sports car for B road hooning and a cheap diesel MPV for daily driving and humping crap about. You'll then have the perfect tool for whatever the job is you want to do.
Sorted
With your buget you could buy a comfy barge for wafting, a sports car for B road hooning and a cheap diesel MPV for daily driving and humping crap about. You'll then have the perfect tool for whatever the job is you want to do.
Sorted
The XK is a GT car, I think you were expecting a Sports car. I like my XK8 as a daily driver as it is a great mile coverer that can pick up her skirts when asked, but I would not have one as a weekend car.
I know I shouldn't say this on the Jag Forum, but for similar money go and try an old-school Porsche like a 944 Turbo or a 968 Sport, then you'll have all the sensations you yearn for and will make the BMW seem anodyne and disconnected.
I ran my Porkers as daily drivers alongside my Wife's 535D M Sport and whilst the BM may have been faster in a straight line I always took the Porsche for the driving experience. (944Ts can easily be taken to 310BHP and many are tuned to 400ish BHP, mine was about 280 BHP)
Be quick though as the world has woken up to these cars and they are starting to appreciate, the 944 is now worth more than a much newer Boxster. I sold my 944T with 231k on the clock and it is still going strong.
My 944T
My 968 (Sadly written off last year)
I know I shouldn't say this on the Jag Forum, but for similar money go and try an old-school Porsche like a 944 Turbo or a 968 Sport, then you'll have all the sensations you yearn for and will make the BMW seem anodyne and disconnected.
I ran my Porkers as daily drivers alongside my Wife's 535D M Sport and whilst the BM may have been faster in a straight line I always took the Porsche for the driving experience. (944Ts can easily be taken to 310BHP and many are tuned to 400ish BHP, mine was about 280 BHP)
Be quick though as the world has woken up to these cars and they are starting to appreciate, the 944 is now worth more than a much newer Boxster. I sold my 944T with 231k on the clock and it is still going strong.
My 944T
My 968 (Sadly written off last year)
Edited by Fat Albert on Saturday 3rd August 10:34
Edited by Fat Albert on Saturday 3rd August 10:35
Edited by Fat Albert on Saturday 3rd August 10:36
OP - the Jag is basically designed and tuned to be an effortless mile-eater. The steering is light, you get out of the car after a 300 mile journey and you feel pretty much the same as when you got in the car. It also happens to be able to acquit itself very well on B roads.
If you want a 'raw' experience buy a Caterham, the XKR of that era just isn't going to be the car for you.
If you want a 'raw' experience buy a Caterham, the XKR of that era just isn't going to be the car for you.
BikingLampy said:
New member, so hello all...
But I was utterly non-plussed by driving it. Other than being a nice place to sit (and even then, I didn't feel like I could get the seat low enough), it didn't feel especially quick; other than the whine of the supercharger when pushed, and the odd quiet burble on the overrun, it didn't sound special - I wasn't really aware of any innate "V8ness".
Jon
Hey Jon--know exactly what you mean. I have always been astounded by the looks of the car and in 2008, after 14 years of owning a 1995 Corvette, I was looking at XK8/XKR and expecting these to be as fun and sprightly to drive as the Corvette. While I did end up with my 2005 XKR, I would say the number one thing I would change is the position of the driver's seat. No matter how I adjust it it always feels about 1" too high. Or course in the Corvette I was practically on the floor. The second thing is even with 100 horsepower more than the Corvette, the mass of the Jaguar makes it feel sluggish. I think the car is actually quicker than my senses indicate but it is so quiet and smooth, you don't really feel the acceleration. But when I look down at the speedometer I am always surprise to see I am quicker than I had thought. But I was utterly non-plussed by driving it. Other than being a nice place to sit (and even then, I didn't feel like I could get the seat low enough), it didn't feel especially quick; other than the whine of the supercharger when pushed, and the odd quiet burble on the overrun, it didn't sound special - I wasn't really aware of any innate "V8ness".
Jon
Still, this generation of the XK is basically a competent cruiser.
Doug
Los Angeles
2005 XKR
BikingLampy said:
New member, so hello all...
So for a fair while, and involving a certain amount of family history, I've had a hankering for a Jag, specifically an X100 XKR, to run as a "special" car alongside my E91 320D (remapped and suspension tweaks).
So what am I missing that makes it feel such a let down to have got behind the wheel of the car of my dreams?
Cheers!
Jon
Well, something wrong here, no doubt. So for a fair while, and involving a certain amount of family history, I've had a hankering for a Jag, specifically an X100 XKR, to run as a "special" car alongside my E91 320D (remapped and suspension tweaks).
So what am I missing that makes it feel such a let down to have got behind the wheel of the car of my dreams?
Cheers!
Jon
First, the X100 XKR is a powerful GT car not a sports car as such. Though it goes well and handles far better than most give it credit for. So it is GT rather than a Scooby. But a lot of people are afraid to really push an X100 and if they did they would get a surprise.
Second, did you depress the Sport button then seriously apply your right foot? It is worth saying that these cars seem to 'learn' performance from their drivers. If the car has been driven hard it will go hard, is my experience, but if it has been pussyfooted around it will not respond as sharply as you expect. I am not sure if a service, or a really hard drive, or an engine rebuild is required to do the trick.
Third, the car suffers from a VERY soft exhaust system, which makes you think you are going more slowly than you are.
If you get into an XKR and floor it you should be heading for the horizon like a scalded cat. You should also not be afraid of skipping round corners with the rear end jumping about like a breakdancer.
SV8Predator said:
NormanD said:
I've been working on fitting a Manual gearbox that works in the XKR
That's interesting! How long have you been working on this, Norman?Mine is up and running, trying to get the electronics sorted for the 4.2LT engined cars now
Give us a shout in interested
I've owned an XKR Silverstone for 4 years and my wife thought it was a bit boring to drive, she has a TT quattro, she changed her mind the first time she took it out on her own and got a bit braver with it. Mines got CATS suspension and it seems to love it the harder you push it through bends, yes it's heavy but it's a GT. We've driven to the south of France and then on to southern Spain in two days, you get there feeling as fresh as a daisy and I guarantee you won't get as many smiles and waves on the way in a Beemer.
I can understand where you are coming from regarding the pure driving enjoyment. I run a 04 XKR as an everyday drive, and this is my first auto. As an everyday vehicle the 6sp auto is great and makes the car effortless to drive. However on a nice twisty A/B road I'd rather have a manual, as such if I was buying a car as a weekend toy just to enjoy driving on my favourite bit of tarmac the XKR probably wouldn't be my choice, but as a compromise that can make you smile and eat up the miles it is great.
If enjoying the road I always tend to use the left hand side of the J gate and make my own decisions about which gear to be in.
I will say it took me a while to build the confidence to start to push it in the bends. The CATs suspension with polybushes seems firm enough for road use but I find the steering too slow and lacking in feedback. Also the 20" rims don't help the ride around the potholed roads of derbyshire/sheffield.
If enjoying the road I always tend to use the left hand side of the J gate and make my own decisions about which gear to be in.
I will say it took me a while to build the confidence to start to push it in the bends. The CATs suspension with polybushes seems firm enough for road use but I find the steering too slow and lacking in feedback. Also the 20" rims don't help the ride around the potholed roads of derbyshire/sheffield.
Thanks for all the comments.
It's an interesting mix. Made me think fairly hard about what I actually do and don't want out of a "toy". Not really come to any useful conclusion!
My beemer is about the most performance orientated car (phrase used loosely!)I've driven, bar a short spin in an RS4 Avant across London in rush hour, where I didn't get over 25mph!
My (push)biking habits have ended up leaving me fairly jaded with most cars - they all feel very slow and distant in comparison to hammering down a rocky trail through the trees on an mtb or descending at 50mph on a roadbike with only some lycra for protection. I need a diesel estate to cart the bikes around in, and as soon as I drove a 320d I knew it was far closer to the bike experience than anything else (especially after my previous B5 Passat!).
The problem comes, that after the bikes, to get any kind of buzz from driving I end up ragging around the place like a complete t!t, which is just not sensible, hence trying to avoid something so obviously "sports car" as say a Z4 or an S2000. (I mean redline at 60mph in 2nd, 90mph in 3rd in an S2000, you're not in the powerband until you're in illegal speeds in 4, 5, 6, just what's the point?). I was hoping that heading more in the "GT" direction would mean I was less likely to drive everywhere like my arse was on fire, and just being behind the wheel was a special enough experience to justify the outlay, but with the sharpness available on demand, but it was all just too bland and easy - just another car.
I've been up in the Scottish borders this last week, biking and got some quality car miles in too (A708
). I guess it was moderately rare that I got over 60mph - for me it's not really about the absolute speed, but more about testing my mental and physical abilities* - the 320d is quick enough on boost, that I'm not waiting around for it and requires sufficient concentration to stay sunny side up on a twisty bumpy road that it keeps me nicely entertained, and that's the important bit. Once on a motorway, it cruises at 70 just like any other car. It's got aircon, cruise control, a decent stereo and comfy seats, I'm not actually feeling like I'm wanting for anything.
So all that said, well why am I thinking about a toy? Honest answer is "I don't know". Just a case of WANT, really... So that probably makes me a normal bloke, but probably no petrol head? I guess my ideal vehicle would be a complete schizo - urbane and civilised on the motorway or round town, but an absolute razor edged deathtrap on a country lane and needing a driver with balls of brass to break an NSL...
Sorry for the brain dump. Just trying to get my thoughts in order...!
It's an interesting mix. Made me think fairly hard about what I actually do and don't want out of a "toy". Not really come to any useful conclusion!
My beemer is about the most performance orientated car (phrase used loosely!)I've driven, bar a short spin in an RS4 Avant across London in rush hour, where I didn't get over 25mph!
My (push)biking habits have ended up leaving me fairly jaded with most cars - they all feel very slow and distant in comparison to hammering down a rocky trail through the trees on an mtb or descending at 50mph on a roadbike with only some lycra for protection. I need a diesel estate to cart the bikes around in, and as soon as I drove a 320d I knew it was far closer to the bike experience than anything else (especially after my previous B5 Passat!).
The problem comes, that after the bikes, to get any kind of buzz from driving I end up ragging around the place like a complete t!t, which is just not sensible, hence trying to avoid something so obviously "sports car" as say a Z4 or an S2000. (I mean redline at 60mph in 2nd, 90mph in 3rd in an S2000, you're not in the powerband until you're in illegal speeds in 4, 5, 6, just what's the point?). I was hoping that heading more in the "GT" direction would mean I was less likely to drive everywhere like my arse was on fire, and just being behind the wheel was a special enough experience to justify the outlay, but with the sharpness available on demand, but it was all just too bland and easy - just another car.
I've been up in the Scottish borders this last week, biking and got some quality car miles in too (A708
). I guess it was moderately rare that I got over 60mph - for me it's not really about the absolute speed, but more about testing my mental and physical abilities* - the 320d is quick enough on boost, that I'm not waiting around for it and requires sufficient concentration to stay sunny side up on a twisty bumpy road that it keeps me nicely entertained, and that's the important bit. Once on a motorway, it cruises at 70 just like any other car. It's got aircon, cruise control, a decent stereo and comfy seats, I'm not actually feeling like I'm wanting for anything.So all that said, well why am I thinking about a toy? Honest answer is "I don't know". Just a case of WANT, really... So that probably makes me a normal bloke, but probably no petrol head? I guess my ideal vehicle would be a complete schizo - urbane and civilised on the motorway or round town, but an absolute razor edged deathtrap on a country lane and needing a driver with balls of brass to break an NSL...
Sorry for the brain dump. Just trying to get my thoughts in order...!
- I've had some awesome drives in loaded 7.5T trucks - one involving Cornish steep windy unclassified roads come to mind - set fire to the grease in the rear wheel bearings. I was sweating and knackered by the time we'd got to site...
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